Raising the White Flag - I Surrender

I still need everything meme - positive regard - non-judging, support, kind words, encouragement, direction, information, sign posting when I am heading the wrong way (often ) physical comfort (hugs) are not allowed in OZ - the closest I get is a handshake at the end of each session - I reach my hand out and T responds - its a way of making physical contact - making it real for me - maybe thats strange ... dunno....

I thought I had killed my inner child the other day - told T shge was dead - but she's still there - shes stopped crying - maybe I will be able to now - maybe she was crying because I cant

Somtimes if T sat next to me that would be enough - but its not going to happen and I have to try to stop hoping for things that wont happen - and it would prob freak me out if he did anyway

take care P7

(((((((((((((((((((( dear P7 )))))))))))))))))))))

I love you.

I haven't been able to read this thread until now. Too close to home.

I struggle with this too. We have talked so many times about my wanting physical comforting. I'm tired of talking about it. In fact, talking about it is like holding something up then telling me I can't have it.

Sometimes I feel like I'm working through it some though.
Sometimes I just feel so sad and cry and I don't even know why.
Last weekend I was at the computer looking up dentists, trying to finally get myself some dental care I need. The whole time I was bawling my eyes out because I felt so alone. I was taking care of me, but I wanted 'someone' to be standing right there beside me the whole time.

I know that what we didn't get in our infant days and childhood is about what we needed, but I was wondering about that I believe firmly that it was not my mother from whom I wanted these things. I can't imagine wanting these things from her. I wanted them from teachers and other mothers though. I don't know why that makes a difference or if it does.
And I wonder if my wanting nurturing from T is a way of avoiding thinking about wanting nurturing from my mother, or that the need comes from 'then' even though I feel it fully 'now'.

It is so hard. Sometimes I do accept it logically but I don't give up the longing, the wish, the hope. THAT would be too much...

(((sittingatwatersedge))) ty toyou too

Very good insights that need to be investigated further Echoes.........

Luce said,

The pain of knowing that you never got what you needed and you ever can't go back and get it now is overwhelming.

I spent so much of my life trying to run from that pain. Trying to fill it up elsewhere. Putting bandaids on it by getting my time with T, or getting a hug if I was lucky.

But there are no bandaids that can heal a wound that big. . .

One day. . . I finally understood that the bandaids weren't working. The wound wasn't healing. And I couldn't cope with the desperate inner need anymore.

So I removed all the bandaids, and allowed myself to feel the pain of the wound. . . . I cannot describe to you the depth of that grief.

I guess the key was that I truly felt that pain. I didn't use any defences to fight it off. I went deep down into it and accepted it.

And from that acceptance and grief came a new understanding and appreciation of myself. I made a commitment to myself. Nobody had ever been there for me - I resolved that I will ALWAYS be there for me.

And I do.

It doesn't mean that I never get care from anyone else, because I do. It just means that I am not desperately looking for anyone to fill those needs for me.

That inner desperation isn't there anymore. That inner self that needed so much and never got it... now gets it from me. My commitment to her - to myself - IS enough.

I think the key is in accepting the pain. Letting go of all your defences that you've used for years and years to fight those feelings, and just feel it.

Yes, it is terrifying and yes the pain is overwhelming, and yes it feels like the depth of pain is not survivable. But it is. And the healing that can come from it is indescribable.

To not feel that desperate aloneness, that need for someone else to 'make it better' is ... life changing.

You say you do all the right things but you can't 'feel' it.
Going through the motions isn't the same as being committed. . .having faith in yourself. . .accepting the depth of your own pain. . .truly owning it for what it is.

Perhaps it is simply that - going through the motions while holding out hope for the next bandaid.

But while you are simply going through the motions, that desperate inner self still feels her desperation. While you hold out hope for the next bandaid, she waits too.

And that gaping, yawning chasm of need never gets filled.

I'm just thinking about all of this. . .

i guess i haven't truly given up the idea of still getting from t (or someone) what i didn't get as a child. i mean, i accept that i can never get "everything" i missed out on. . .but i still want "some" of it. . .

It just does not feel wrong for me to want "some" of that nurturing care, as long as i'm making my own best efforts to care for myself.

I do understand, as you've said, that this bandaid can't replace everything i went without. . .and it can't replace my own responsibility to care for my needs. . .

Regarding the need to put down the defenses and really face the pain. . .yes, I've been running from that for a long time. You mentioned that the pain feels so bad, it seems that you can't survive it. That is exactly how I've felt. That the pain is so deep, and there is so much of it, that it has a terrible, huge, destructive power. . .that facing it and feeling it will kill me.

i'm glad you were able to face your pain and see that it was survivable.

i hope someday i can get to that point.

Thank you so much for your inspiring post.

Peaches said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peaches100
even the adult me often feels like i need advice/help. I feel scared, like I'm being left alone to do something i can't do.

Sannah said:

This is where you seek help and support instead of wanting them to do it for you????

New reply: I honestly do not think I want t to do it for me. I only want her to help fill in at times when i reach the limit of my own ability to cope.

Peaches said:

Quote:
Because my t doesn't comfort me that way, then accepting what I missed out on as a child also means accepting that my t won't replace what I didn't get by supplying the comfort and hugs.

So I can't accept my past losses and then be filled up in the present.

Sannah said:

I sense that you just think that you want the physical hugs without the emotional connection and you think that these physical hugs will replace the emotional connection?????????

New reply:

No, I don't think of the hug as a replacement for emotional connection. The hug is more related to getting a physiological feeling of safety or protection. For example, when i dissociate and begin to feel that i am back in my past traumas, where there was no protection or rescue. In that "space," I am not aware enough in an adult way to provide that experience of safety for myself. That's the time i would want the hug. Not necessarily at any other time. I'm not sure if i'm making that clear or if people understand what i mean.

Peaches said,

It's that feeling that I'm being asked to face/experience the pain of my past losses while at the same time fixing myself. It just doesn't feel fair. Maybe it's better not to even talk about/face/feel the past losses if they can't be undone or compensated for in the present.

Sannah said:

And avoiding this pain is what is going on, like Luce described?????

New reply:

I guess I am avoiding the pain because I do not have confidence that I'll be able to tolerate it on my own without feeling re-traumatized. . .unless my t pitches in and helps supply a feeling of safety and comfort for me. I am more than willing to try to endure the pain as much as i can on my own, but i've repeatedly crashed and felt the aftereffects of emotional overload and feeling retraumatized by the rehashing of my traumas and not having any kind of experience of safety or rescue in the face of it. Does that make sense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peaches100
The other thing is why do i feel so terrified when i think about taking care of my own needs? Why do i feel panicked about it, and why do I feel such strong urges to cry?

Sannah said:

Good questions that need to be explored. I found myself not meeting my needs no matter what I did until I found the little message in my mind which was blocking my way. My message was that I believed that my mother would stop loving me if I met my needs. This thought of course was formed in my mind when I was a small child. What messages do you have concerning your needs?

New reply:

My needs are overwhelming.
I am unable to tolerate my needs.
I am ashamed of my needs.
I am afraid of the strength of my needs.
My needs are bad.

Peaches said,

Quote:
Originally Posted by peaches100
it is so hard to face all the old pain again and try to endure it without an intervention by t to help me feel that, this time around, someone will step in and provide relief.

Sannah said:

Provide relief so you don't have to feel the pain?????

New reply:

No, provide relief so that revisiting my traumas does not feel like i am being retraumatized without any way to escape. I want her to help provide relief, not to keep me from feeling the pain, but to help make the level of the pain tolerable for me. Somehow, i feel that i must not be explaining well enough what i mean.

I also think that my wanting touch is because a part of me feels so bad and unlovable because of my SA. I fear that it has made a part of me bad and tainted. If i sense that my t is hesitant to touch me, due to my SA, and that my husband also is having a hard time touching me because of it. . .then it reinforces my feeling that my SA has put some black mark on my soul now and that i am damaged goods. . .that if they are afraid to touch me because of what happened. . .then there is something wrong with me.

Maybe that little girl in me is trying to seek some kind of reassurance or proof that i am not BAD because of what happened to me. That i am still OK and lovable and not some disgusting piece of garbage that the people i care about most have to keep their distance from.

When the situation is such that you crave good touch because you've been subjected to bad touch. . .and you blame yourself for your SA because of the effects it has had on you. . .and you desperately want some kind of reassurance of your goodness and worth. . .

. . .yet others show hesitancy to touch you because of what's happened. . .

then even if they tell you that it is not your fault, and that they do not blame you or think badly of you in any way. . .

. . .the fact that they hold back . . . the withdrawing itself. . .feels like it confirms that little voice inside you that you are a damaged worthless nothing.

Because you say to yourself, if the SA was not my fault and i am not tainted, then the people i love would not be afraid to touch me. Therefore, you feel that there is something bad about you, in you, that makes them react that way.

Wow! Sorry about that! I guess i got on a roll. It looks like i really need to work on my self-image and feelings of badness.

How weird. . .i had completely blanked this out at the time i was posting!

Yesterday i got very triggered and called t. I was crying and saying how i felt that she and my husband were afraid of me. . .that they were afraid to touch me. . .and that there must be something bad or wrong with me.

The telephone conversation is kind of muddy in my mind right now. But i do remember her saying in a gentle voice, this:

"Peaches, I am not afraid of you. I care about you very much. And I am not afraid to touch you. I would never want to hurt you. I would never do anything intentionally to make you feel like a bad person. You are not bad when there is so much right about you."

Oh, I think i can feel the warm fuzzy in my heart!

I need to figure out how to hold onto that. . .

. . . if i could just hold onto that. . .

. . . maybe i would not need the hug. . .

I am glad you had a warm adn fuzzy attack - that you reached out and T gave you comfort - and you are making so many insights - this is amazing

I know when T makes me feel cared for (in words) it feels great - and yes... I wish I knew how to hold onto that feeling forever too

((((((((((((((((peaches))))))))))))))))

nonononononononono...

When you try to hold onto something, it goes away.

If you want more of something, what you do is... give it away.

----------------------------------
That's called a paradox.

I like to think of it as internalizing the good feelings and letting that joy be a part of yourself. It's being open to allowing it without clinging to it. I think sometimes you have to release the need for it in order for that to happen...if that makes any sense. Like the old saying...let it go and it will come back to you.

Peaches, I'm happy for you!!! Just think of how much your T cares, and I think the warm feeling will stay with you. I like what Bethers said about allowing it without clinging. Just let the good feelings be inside of you, and they will last. Don't try too hard or think too much about it, just enjoy feeling good!

Good work Peaches!!!!! And like Fool Zero said maybe hanging onto it isn't the way to go. Getting more of it sounds like a better plan? Now this plan to me sounds like you can actually get somewhere as opposed to your plan to get hugs!

Good thought evoluation here Peaches! You talked yourself through an issue and came to a good insight!

Her providing you relief would basically cause you to not work through these issues. There is no pain free method here. Providing relief means stopping you from feeling the pain to me????? I think that you might find a way to make the pain tolerable, however, like at the beginning of this post where you had a nice connection with your therapist on the emotional level!!!!!

I just want to apologize to anyone who didn't get a reply to their post. I tried my best to address all the input, but it got overwhelming to try to individually comment to so many. I can't express how appreciative i am that all of you took an interest in my situation and provided your comments, support, and feedback.

As for getting a hug, i've decided i have to drop the issue. . .at least for now. It's just to painful to keep recycling through it.

Thanks again to all of you.

Hug for (((((peaches))))).

((peaches))) I know how dep and unending that pain can feel - we have to hope that one day it will be filled with happiness

Except for the "have to" part, that sounds like the way to go. It might work better if you chose to.

I've always found it much easier to get hugs (as well as much less painful not to) when I didn't have a huge charge on it.

You can get them only when you don't need them...

Invite Your Longing to Tea

When you feel longing for something, do you take immediate action? We often move reflexively either to fulfill a longing or to suppress it, rarely taking time to sit with the longing itself.
Are you willing to connect to your feeling of longing? Not the subject, not the thing longed for, but the feeling itself. If that feels too risky, you can choose to connect to just a part of it, 70%, or 5% - whatever feels right to you. You can also set a time limit, or end the visit when it feels complete.
Preparing tea
Take a moment to brew your favorite flavor of tea. Consider setting a second place for your guest. Curl your fingers around your mug and breathe in the aromatic steam. Settle more deeply into your chair, allowing your body to receive support.
Invite your longing, or part of it, to join you. Breathe, sip your tea, and notice what you see, hear, and feel as your guest arrives.
Describe your guest
Does your longing have a shape, color, or texture? Is it a faraway whisper, only audible in rare stillness? Is it shouting constantly with obsessive thoughts? Does it buzz like a yellow-jacket, and take bites out of the rest of your life? Perhaps it hums peacefully.
Where in your body do you notice it? Is it a physical pull, or ache, or warmth? Does it transfix you like a fish hook as you try to wriggle and squirm away from it? Does it drive you like a whip into fulfilling it? Does it rock you like a child?
Are you old friends, or strangers?
Refocusing
Is your focus slipping away to the subject of the longing? Remember to come back to the feeling itself. Breathe, sip your tea, and bring your spacious attention to your guest. Simply wait, and receive whatever comes.
Untangling the feelings
Longing can be braided with many other feelings.

• Shame/judgment - "shoulds" around longing and fulfillment
• Fear - of not having enough
• Anger - feeling thwarted or frustrated
• Regret - over paths not taken
• Grief - for what is lost
• Love - perhaps the source of longing
• Pleasure - in daydreams and memories

Perhaps there are whole stories entwined with this longing. Notice what thoughts and feelings arise for you. Acknowledge each one, allow it to move through you, and then bring your attention back to your invited guest.
Conversation
Do you have anything to say to your longing? Does your longing have anything to say to you? Remember to breathe, and open to the unexpected.
Saying goodbye
As the visit comes to an end, notice if there have been any changes in you, or in your longing, or in the relationship between you. What do you see, hear, and feel? Next time you meet, will you be able to see each other more clearly? Have you come to appreciate anything about your longing, and yourself?
The gifts of longing
Our longings reveal our desires, our vulnerabilities, and our priorities. Longing can be a powerful, painful force, and, with quiet attention and acceptance, it can also be a gateway to greater connection and freedom.
Learn more
I first encountered the idea of sitting with longing itself in Tara Brach's book Radical Acceptance: Embracing Your Life with the Heart of a Buddha. Highly recommended!

Let me know what you think!
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