Has anyone tried the traditional Freudian psychoanalysis - you lying on the couch, T sitting out of eyesight, you free associating? T and I may try this soon - T said she wants to discuss it more before we try it. I think I'd miss the connection I get from being able to look at T when we're talking, but I think it might be, er, freeing to just try the free assocation.

So what usually happens, does the T remain silent, or does the T offer feedback? One friend who knew someone who did it said that the T only gave feedback in the last 10 minutes - that seemed strange to me.

Ooh. Not for me thanks.

[Persie]

I have seen a psychoanalyst. I sat opposite him and talked, but I knew I was expected to eventually move to using the couch. I tried to make the shift, but it didn't work for me. He told me that people's ability to use the couch indicated the level of trust that they were able to accomplish. So, I guess I have trust and letting go issues.

The three times I did manage it, it was a surreal experience. Something happens in your mind, as if you enter a trance state or something. I spoke more easily and openly about things, I didn't care so much about what I said or the therapist's reaction. It was very freeing. However, when I got there the next time, the idea of being that free, frightened me so much, that I couldn't go through with it.

I would recommend it, if only for the experience of doing this. No one can force you, so if you don't think its for you after a few sessions, you can always say you have had enough. Try it for the surreal factor. Then come and tell us how it was!

[ECHOES]

I would like to
My T is a psychoanalyst, but a relational psychoanalyst and doesn't use the traditional couch. She offers associations and interpretations in the moment or at the end of the session, depending I think if the association or interp would be helpful of interfering (re-directing, etc.) I love this thearpy.

If you want to share, let us know how it goes if you try it.

How this came up for me was one session a month or so ago, I went in and told T that I wanted to try lying on the couch. T automatically moved her chair sideways - I looked at her, bewildered, and she explained that she would sit facing sideways if I lie on the couch and stare ahead or up at the ceiling, so she's not in my line of sight. I told her no, no, no - I just wanted to curl up on the couch but talk how we normally talk! She was fine with that. But then it got me thinking, the more traditonal psychoanalysis might be interesting to try. T said she does that with some of her patients, after I asked. I think T would be totally fine with quitting it anytime I didn't feel comfortable. And I do feel like I trust T enough now to try it, and also that I'm better at free association because it was very hard for me to do that when I first started therapy, I was really censoring myself all the time.

Very interesting about the surreal feeling. I had read that it may be more emotional than I expect it to be. I'm excited to talk about it with T more on Monday - who knows, maybe we'll try it! I'll let you know how it goes!

I don't know if this is really relevant, but I saw a hypnotherpist for a few months, and there I laid on a couch and she was several feet away where I couldn't see her. I was able to acces some really deep feelings and cried my heart out on a couple of occasions, which nver ever happens in my regular t sessions. Some of that was no doubt due to the guided imagery whe was using, but I think it was also that I did not have to try to relate to her as I do my regular therapist. I could just stick with me and my own experience and feelings, I would imagine analysis might be a little like that...??

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by Persie

......He told me that people's ability to use the couch indicated the level of trust that they were able to accomplish. ....

So much for that! I obviously will never know how it would be.
Entirely too much vulnerability in that position; the thought makes me shudder!
I have enough trouble sitting in front of someone who looks at me intently, and for a whole hour. yikes

[Persie]

I had the same problem. There is something uncomfortable about a male asking a female to lay on a couch while they are alone in a room. No matter how innocent, there is a part of the brain which goes, uh, uh. In my case, the couch was actually a single bed, made to look like a couch with cushions, and unsuccessfully so.

In my head, I knew he wouldn't do anything and it was immature of me, and perhaps, I was also using the fear as an excuse to keep away from looking at the really scary stuff, assuming it even existed anyway. I tried, but I just couldn't do it.

So, I have trust issues and control issues, big deal, no one is going to be 100% normal in this life...there is always going to be something that we failed to deal with. If this is the worst of my issues, I am doing just fine thanks.

*whispers* Did I get away with that?

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by Persie

*whispers* Did I get away with that?

(sssshhhhh- yes )

[imapatient]

I saw a formally trained psychoanalyst (a psychologist) for about 5 sessions. It drove me crazy.

It isn't about a couch and lying down. It's about the type of relationship that you two have, your interaction style, driven by the T. Generally the patient has to drive everything. The T sits and reacts rather than "acts," and the burden is on the patient to carry all conversation. I felt like all I was getting from her was a rewording of my sentences in the form of a question "Why do you think that X...........?" Very minimal feedback at all. Almost no--or none-- interpretations, no suggestions, etc. There was no idle chit-chat whatsoever, she just didn't respond at all. I didn't feel like I was with a human being.

She had the couch and offered it, but gave me the choice. Don't focus on that, that's an atmospheric thing, however much it might affect you; it's the interactive behavior and verbal comments between the two that are the heart of it. I felt very alone and lonely. Maybe she was extreme, but that's the general way it goes, I hear.

[Onzichtbaar]

I say, just give it a go - see if you like it and if you don't, then you can always go back to sitting and conducting the sessions how you have been until now.

I see a Freudian analyst. I don't lie down for my sessions (there's a couch in the room that looks just like the one Freud used with his patients). I tried lying down on 2 occasions but didn't feel I could relax - sometimes I'd wished I'd persevered for a few more sessions. There is a sky light above his couch and I found it uncomfortable with the sunlight in my eyes. Maybe that was a bit of an excuse - in truth, I feel safer with him in my line of sight. I don't often look at him but it's good that I can check how he is responding and get reassurance if needed by glancing at him and observing his facial expressions. His view is that it doesn't make much difference - sitting or lying - it's a matter of preference. Some people find it easier to associate freely without the distraction of having their therapist to look at. The blank space of a ceiling is a better canvas for collecting ones thoughts. The time I did lie down, I asked how the most patients who use the couch lie - are they still or do they fidget? He said some move a lot while others lie there dead still - some pull the blanket over them. So there's no right or wrong way to 'be' on the couch.

I know the cliche view of traditional Freudian analysis is a 'blank slate' approach. My therapist isn't like this - true, he isn't directive unless he really feels there is something pressing (if I am avoiding something session after session, then perhaps he will ask me directly about it). He won't say things like "I'm so sorry you went through that" - he's not Mr. Empathy - maybe this might come across as 'cold' to some. But we have laughed together, cried together, shared together (if I ask him a personal question he will rarely deflect it), we exchange e-mails, he has accepted gifts and has lent me books. We shake hands at the begin and end of sessions - we don't hug.

When the session begins, he'll usually greet me at the door but once we are seated he'll simply say "Now it's your turn" and if I say nothing, then there is silence. Quite often I will then ask a question of some kind in order to grab onto something, otherwise I do feel like a little girl in a big empty space. Once that ritual is over, I normally feel more relaxed and just see where my thoughts take me. This process has become easier over time - he listens intently and is responsive throughout the session. Occasionally (not often) I have a session and I wish he would respond more - maybe on a bad day.

I imagine, given you know the therapist and will simply be continuing the therapy but in a new position and maybe placing more emphasis on free association, any change in the therapist's approach will be subtle and gradual. I also imagine it wouldn't be a problem to change back to the previous way of doing things if analysis doesn't suit you.

Onzi

[kitten16]

I've wondered about this. My therapist said we could do the free association thing, if I wanted to try it. (Aargh -- why doesn't he ever say HE wants me to try something!) But he said we should start meeting twice a week before embarking on it...something about the deeper stuff that comes up, etc. etc. I can't afford twice a week right now though.

I've gotten the feeling with my current T that we're at odds about what therapy is supposed to do. I try to bring up goals or experiences in the real world, mistakes I've made, things I want to change, strategies I'd like to try. But he was kind of prickly last time and said, "I'm not into doing weird little projects." I think he's an inner-transformation type of person, but I've only just begun to realize this. Maybe he assumed I knew what psychotherapy is all about. I do know something about it, but I was astonished to realize that maybe I'm not supposed to be talking about my real-life goals and projects. Kind of still reeling from that...

Did I make a mistake, or is this guy just an a-hole?

[BlueHen]

I just finished 5 years and am struggling very hard with termination. Although my views may change over time, and I was crazy about my analyst, I think that analysis (4 or 5 days each week, on the couch) is too painful and too intense. I compare it to helping someone lose weight by locking them in the closet without food. I built up this intense relationship with this woman and then, poof, she is gone. And because of the privacy I have no one to talk to about my grief.

[Onzichtbaar]

Originally Posted by BlueHen

I just finished 5 years and am struggling very hard with termination. Although my views may change over time, and I was crazy about my analyst, I think that analysis (4 or 5 days each week, on the couch) is too painful and too intense. I compare it to helping someone lose weight by locking them in the closet without food. I built up this intense relationship with this woman and then, poof, she is gone. And because of the privacy I have no one to talk to about my grief.

I'm sorry you are experiencing so much pain. Did you feel pressured to terminate/end the therapy when you did or was it your decision? Termination should be one of the most important stages of the analysis to be worked through. It sounds like this stage wasn't successfully completed prior to your leaving analysis - is it possible to go back and fully work through all these feelings? I know some analysts allow their patients to taper off gradually i.e. instead of just going from 4/5 times a week to stopping, the patient first reduces the frequency of sessions down to once or twice weekly and continues like this for a year or so before finally parting ways.

If you really are suffering and the option doesn't exist to return to your former analyst, perhaps you can consider working through these feelings with a new therapist - but perhaps this time with a psychodynamic therapist once or twice a week?

I don't see my analyst as frequently as you saw yours but I can understand the feeling of anxiety at the thought of terminating. I think there is a real danger with such in depth work that this part of the process isn't successfully worked through - that's why it's so important that the patient has to be ready before walking out of the door for the last time.

Onzi

[ECHOES]

my T is not a relational psychoanalyst. I'm not sure where I got that except that she gave a talk or lecture on it at the analytic institute.
not even sure why it matters to me that I'm posting it here. lol. anyway.. carry on

[BlueHen]

Originally Posted by Onzichtbaar

I'm sorry you are experiencing so much pain. Did you feel pressured to terminate/end the therapy when you did or was it your decision? Termination should be one of the most important stages of the analysis to be worked through. It sounds like this stage wasn't successfully completed prior to your leaving analysis - is it possible to go back and fully work through all these feelings? I know some analysts allow their patients to taper off gradually i.e. instead of just going from 4/5 times a week to stopping, the patient first reduces the frequency of sessions down to once or twice weekly and continues like this for a year or so before finally parting ways.

If you really are suffering and the option doesn't exist to return to your former analyst, perhaps you can consider working through these feelings with a new therapist - but perhaps this time with a psychodynamic therapist once or twice a week?

I don't see my analyst as frequently as you saw yours but I can understand the feeling of anxiety at the thought of terminating. I think there is a real danger with such in depth work that this part of the process isn't successfully worked through - that's why it's so important that the patient has to be ready before walking out of the door for the last time.

Onzi

Onzi: Thank you for your concern and thoughts. After five years, the financial and time pressures caused me to press a bit to leave but I think "cold turkey" was just too harsh and disruptive to my psyche. We had a very warm last session and even a hug; but I must admit that I feel used and spit-out, like a mark on her psychoanalytic holster. I vacillate between love and appreciation for her care, and disappointment and hurt for "good luck, call if you ever need me." I may just be experiencing withdrawal but it sure is painful.