Home Menu

Menu


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old Jun 10, 2011, 12:28 PM
ECHOES's Avatar
ECHOES ECHOES is offline
Legendary
 
Member Since: Aug 2007
Location: West of Tampa Bay, East of the Gulf of Mexico
Posts: 14,354
rainbow, here is what I read last week about transference that I said I would post or send you.

It's from the book "Basic Freud" by Michael Kahn PhD, chapter 11. Kahn has just discussed Merton Gill's ideas about transference, which I also enjoyed.

Kahn writes:

"Heinz Kohut and the Selfobject Transference
An equally important follower of Freud in the realm of understanding transference was Heinz Kohut (1913-1981), Of the many valuable innovations in psychoanalysis Kohut made, the one that concerns us here is his description of the "selfobject" transference, the hop that here at last is the parent for whom I have been hoping and waiting.

This is Kohut's notion of the selfobject: Soon after birth the infant and child becomes occupied with three crusial unconscous questions, questions that in a healthy, loving home are answered positively by the parents. First, am I a lovable person who is welcome here? Sometimes, often mother, like the mirror in Snow White, sends her infant the message that he or she is the fairest and most wonderful of them all. That response is the one that forever establishes the child's self-esteem.

Somewhat later comes the secong question: How can a small, inexperienced being like me cope with this overwhelming world and these overwhelming feelings? This question is answered by the child learning that one or both of the parents is calm, confident, and competent. It is not yet necessary that the child be able to cope; the capable parent or parents will take care of things while the child becomes stronger and more experienced. This establishes an important sense of security.

Finally, the third question is: Am I comfortably like other people and therefore acceptable, or am I weird and unacceptable? When parents invite the child to share adult activities the child hears the message, all the more powerful for being unspoken, "I'm not weird; I'm like mommy and daddy."

Kohut believed that the fate of these needs for love and security was a crucial determinant of the child's subsequent mental health. If these needs are adequately me (Kohut didn't think that happened often) the child grows into a healthy adolescent ready to take on the Oedipus complex successfully (ECHOES says, keep in mind this is a book about Freud) and then into a healthy adult. If these needs are not adequately met, the person is a candidate for psychotherapy. Those unmet needs will remain a permanent, unconscious driving force in that person's life. Like the template (1), they will manifest themselves at every opportunity.

Freud taught us that transference was a replay of early relationships. I unconscously expect people to be the way they were in my childhood, and I act in ways calculated to fulfill that prophecy. Kohut recongized that transference-as-replay certainly happens, but he described another form transference can take: transference as the hope for something better than the original relationships. If I had a critical father, my unconscious template will cause me to see my analyst as critical. But the unconscious wish to satisfy the old need may also cause me to see him as the warm, loving father I didn't have and always wanted. In Kohut's vocabulary, I am now seeing the therapist as the loving, validating, selfobject that I so needed and didn't get. Kohut called this the 'selfobject transference.'

Since the advent of Kohut's contributions, psychoanalysts have recognized these two types of transference. Robert Stolorow and his colleagues teach that it is likely the client will oscillate between these two types of transference. When the therapist is empathetically attuned to the client, Stolorow says, the client will experience a selfobject transference. When the transference shifts to an ancient template, Stolorow advises the therapist to suspect that he/she has been guilty of an empathetic failure. When that failure is explored and rectified, the transference will resume it's selfobject form.

The replay transference heals by allowing the client to work through ancient wounds. The selfobject transference heals by providing the therapist with the opportunities to recognize and empathize with the client's long-standing, unconscious hunger for nurturance, support, and validation."

italics and bolding are mine

(1) template: The unconscious force at work in all of us where our "earliest relationships form in our minds templates into which we attempt to fit all subsequent relationships. If I saw my father as severe and critical, in some part of my mind I will expect all older men in authority to be severe and critical."

I know that's awfully long, and in an analytic frame so to speak, but I just found it so fascinating and could relate to so much of it. I think I'm going to take the book to my next session because I told her I am reading it and because I'd like to just tell her that I relate, and see where that goes...
Thanks for this!
feralkittymom, HalfSwede, Suratji

advertisement
  #2  
Old Jun 10, 2011, 12:43 PM
Suratji's Avatar
Suratji Suratji is offline
Grand Member
 
Member Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 956
This is great!! I've read a lot of this same stuff. It so helps us understand what's going on with us.
Thanks for this!
ECHOES
  #3  
Old Jun 10, 2011, 03:31 PM
rainbow8's Avatar
rainbow8 rainbow8 is offline
Legendary
 
Member Since: Mar 2009
Location: US
Posts: 13,284
Thank you very much for this, ECHOES. Self-object transference seems to fit what I do. I hope for "something better" than I got, though I still don't know what I didn't get from my parents. In my case, I know I was wanted, loved, and welcomed. My father was calm and competent, so that's two. Maybe I didn't see that I was like Mommy or Daddy, though doesn't seem correct either. It must have been important for my mother to make me feel safe more than my father, and that's what I didn't get.

Kohut did NOT think those needs were met too often; is that what you meant? That's interesting.It seems awfully hard to be a good parent and give our kids what they need! That's why most people could use therapy!
Thanks for this!
ECHOES
  #4  
Old Jun 10, 2011, 04:21 PM
ECHOES's Avatar
ECHOES ECHOES is offline
Legendary
 
Member Since: Aug 2007
Location: West of Tampa Bay, East of the Gulf of Mexico
Posts: 14,354
rainbow, thanks - yes that should read "adequately met".

I also thought it was interesting how the 2 types of transference work together. And I thought about 'ruptures' when reading about the shift from one type to the other.

suratji, do you ever wonder if reading too much interferes with your therapy
I have wondered that about mine - that the reading can be another attempt to avoid introspection and to avoid the intimacy of the therapy relationship. At one point I had to stop reading and just show up and try to engage more in my therapy.
  #5  
Old Jun 10, 2011, 06:21 PM
Suratji's Avatar
Suratji Suratji is offline
Grand Member
 
Member Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECHOES View Post
suratji, do you ever wonder if reading too much interferes with your therapy
I have wondered that about mine - that the reading can be another attempt to avoid introspection and to avoid the intimacy of the therapy relationship. At one point I had to stop reading and just show up and try to engage more in my therapy.
Yes and no. On one hand the reading has helped me better understand the 'process'. Reading about attachment to therapist has let me resist it less. So, understanding, for me, is essential to trust.

But, as my T keeps pointing out to me, my rational brain is very well exercised and needs to relax a bit. I think that's why she keeps throwing things at me like Sand Tray and dolls - to help me move away from so much analysis and to get in touch with my emotions better.

One technique I'm studying (by reading of all things ) is focusing. I think if I learn that I may be able to move out of so much analysis and move into better awareness.

My T and I both had to laugh today in session because I brought in lots of 'documentation'. When I know that I want to avoid emotional stuff in session, I will do that. I find it more comfortable (no duh, sherlock) to analyze. But she's on to me and I can't really get away with such stunts. She'll allow me to do it but she also gently tries to get me more into my emotions.

Today I asked her if I'm her only client who goes 2x week. She said yes. I said that makes me stupid that I need to come in so often. She said that I work hard and I make progress each meeting and that it is worthwhile for me. She doesn't push people to come in often (it's been mostly her suggestion that I do) or to do long-term unless she sees that it's useful.

Oops - sorry for hijacking thread - just answering your question.
Thanks for this!
ECHOES
  #6  
Old Oct 24, 2013, 12:48 AM
Skynet Skynet is offline
New Member
 
Member Since: Oct 2013
Location: South Korea
Posts: 1
Rainbow,

Thanks alot for your post.
It helps me more clear on Selfobject transference that Kohut brought alive.

God bless you



Quote:
Originally Posted by ECHOES View Post
rainbow, here is what I read last week about transference that I said I would post or send you.

It's from the book "Basic Freud" by Michael Kahn PhD, chapter 11. Kahn has just discussed Merton Gill's ideas about transference, which I also enjoyed.

Kahn writes:

"Heinz Kohut and the Selfobject Transference
An equally important follower of Freud in the realm of understanding transference was Heinz Kohut (1913-1981), Of the many valuable innovations in psychoanalysis Kohut made, the one that concerns us here is his description of the "selfobject" transference, the hop that here at last is the parent for whom I have been hoping and waiting.

This is Kohut's notion of the selfobject: Soon after birth the infant and child becomes occupied with three crusial unconscous questions, questions that in a healthy, loving home are answered positively by the parents. First, am I a lovable person who is welcome here? Sometimes, often mother, like the mirror in Snow White, sends her infant the message that he or she is the fairest and most wonderful of them all. That response is the one that forever establishes the child's self-esteem.

Somewhat later comes the secong question: How can a small, inexperienced being like me cope with this overwhelming world and these overwhelming feelings? This question is answered by the child learning that one or both of the parents is calm, confident, and competent. It is not yet necessary that the child be able to cope; the capable parent or parents will take care of things while the child becomes stronger and more experienced. This establishes an important sense of security.

Finally, the third question is: Am I comfortably like other people and therefore acceptable, or am I weird and unacceptable? When parents invite the child to share adult activities the child hears the message, all the more powerful for being unspoken, "I'm not weird; I'm like mommy and daddy."

Kohut believed that the fate of these needs for love and security was a crucial determinant of the child's subsequent mental health. If these needs are adequately me (Kohut didn't think that happened often) the child grows into a healthy adolescent ready to take on the Oedipus complex successfully (ECHOES says, keep in mind this is a book about Freud) and then into a healthy adult. If these needs are not adequately met, the person is a candidate for psychotherapy. Those unmet needs will remain a permanent, unconscious driving force in that person's life. Like the template (1), they will manifest themselves at every opportunity.

Freud taught us that transference was a replay of early relationships. I unconscously expect people to be the way they were in my childhood, and I act in ways calculated to fulfill that prophecy. Kohut recongized that transference-as-replay certainly happens, but he described another form transference can take: transference as the hope for something better than the original relationships. If I had a critical father, my unconscious template will cause me to see my analyst as critical. But the unconscious wish to satisfy the old need may also cause me to see him as the warm, loving father I didn't have and always wanted. In Kohut's vocabulary, I am now seeing the therapist as the loving, validating, selfobject that I so needed and didn't get. Kohut called this the 'selfobject transference.'

Since the advent of Kohut's contributions, psychoanalysts have recognized these two types of transference. Robert Stolorow and his colleagues teach that it is likely the client will oscillate between these two types of transference. When the therapist is empathetically attuned to the client, Stolorow says, the client will experience a selfobject transference. When the transference shifts to an ancient template, Stolorow advises the therapist to suspect that he/she has been guilty of an empathetic failure. When that failure is explored and rectified, the transference will resume it's selfobject form.

The replay transference heals by allowing the client to work through ancient wounds. The selfobject transference heals by providing the therapist with the opportunities to recognize and empathize with the client's long-standing, unconscious hunger for nurturance, support, and validation."

italics and bolding are mine

(1) template: The unconscious force at work in all of us where our "earliest relationships form in our minds templates into which we attempt to fit all subsequent relationships. If I saw my father as severe and critical, in some part of my mind I will expect all older men in authority to be severe and critical."

I know that's awfully long, and in an analytic frame so to speak, but I just found it so fascinating and could relate to so much of it. I think I'm going to take the book to my next session because I told her I am reading it and because I'd like to just tell her that I relate, and see where that goes...
  #7  
Old Oct 24, 2013, 05:29 PM
unaluna's Avatar
unaluna unaluna is offline
Elder Harridan x-hankster
 
Member Since: Jun 2011
Location: Milan/Michigan
Posts: 42,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skynet View Post
Rainbow,

Thanks alot for your post.
It helps me more clear on Selfobject transference that Kohut brought alive.

God bless you
Thanks for bumping this thread. Kohut is one of my favorites.
Reply
Views: 3383

attentionThis is an old thread. You probably should not post your reply to it, as the original poster is unlikely to see it.




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:12 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® — Copyright © 2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.




 

My Support Forums

My Support Forums is the online community that was originally begun as the Psych Central Forums in 2001. It now runs as an independent self-help support group community for mental health, personality, and psychological issues and is overseen by a group of dedicated, caring volunteers from around the world.

 

Helplines and Lifelines

The material on this site is for informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider.

Always consult your doctor or mental health professional before trying anything you read here.