[pachyderm]

Basically, you learn to depend on yourself. You learn to survive even if you don't have any always-wise parent figure you can depend on. You learn (or can learn) to be able to analyze what a T (or other person) may be missing, and to examine how you react to that.

[skysblue]

Nah, that thinking is kinda like thinking that the advantage of a medical doctor failing you is that you learn how to suture your own wound and learn how to independently diagnose your own physical ailment. In that case, most of us would die.

There is nothing wrong with dependency. We live in a social world. We all depend on others for our survival. We need each other. None of us can claim independence. It is o.k. to receive and to give. How cold our world would be if we each raised the flag of independence and proclaimed our territory sacrosanct and inviolable. Such a vision is so terribly sad.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Keeping in mind of course that I am Mrs Avoidance talking... sittingatwatersedge instead of facing the challenges of life..... but now I'm trying to change it while I still can.....

If a person has worked with many therapists & they've all failed,
or has worked with several therapists & all have failed,
one may understandably wonder whether one must go it alone from that point forwards;
but if as the subject line says, a therapist fails,
isn't that a pretty small population of data points from which to draw a conclusion?
Is it at all possible that going it alone from that one point forward could just be a giving in to distrust and avoidance, resulting in a failure to try again?

(((((((((Pachy))))))))))

[cmac13]

Originally Posted by skysblue

Nah, that thinking is kinda like thinking that the advantage of a medical doctor failing you is that you learn how to suture your own wound and learn how to independently diagnose your own physical ailment. In that case, most of us would die.

There is nothing wrong with dependency. We live in a social world. We all depend on others for our survival. We need each other. None of us can claim independence. It is o.k. to receive and to give. How cold our world would be if we each raised the flag of independence and proclaimed our territory sacrosanct and inviolable. Such a vision is so terribly sad.

WOW! well said! there is absolutely nothing wrong with dependency. We are human beings YES living in a social world. Thanks for your insight.

[rainbow8]

I'm sorry, Pachy. I wish your experience had been different, and that maybe you'll try again some day. It's never too late!

[WikidPissah]

another advantage: your weekly struggle doesn't include pre and post anxiety, nor doesn't it include replaying sessions in your brain.

i lost my 1st T. it was so hard. but i did learn that i was a little stronger than i thought i was, and i also saved a LOT of money b y not having a T for 2 years...

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I'm sorry, Pachy. I wish your experience had been different, and that maybe you'll try again some day. It's never too late!

But rainbow, I was saying there are advantages to it. As hard as it may be, you learn that the important things are what goes on inside your head, not what goes on between you and someone else. It is possible to continue the process of figuring out what is going on even after therapy!

[SoupDragon]

Yes it can be interesing analysing an analyst - that we know more than they do can be reassuring.

For me I know I came to the very edge of things and to stay away from that edge not only do I need some internal coping skills, but I need to learn to trust others, otherwise I fear my fate is sealed. So there would not be an advantage to me of having a T fail me - I think that would be detrimental.

However there is absoutely nothing wrong with being independent, distant from society and relationships - think of hermits - (A hermit is a person who lives, to some degree, in seclusion from society).

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

Yes it can be interesing analysing an analyst - that we know more than they do can be reassuring.

We know more about us than they do...

[rainbow8]

You're right. There are advantages. I'd be better off if I didn't want/need the connection to my T. Much better off.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

You're right. There are advantages. I'd be better off if I didn't want/need the connection to my T. Much better off.

No, Pachyderm's point, I think, is the advantage to having the T FAIL YOU.

[rainbow8]

If a T fails you, then you can see another one. Not all Ts fail. What's the definition of "fail" in this case, anyway? I guess I don't understand, but that's okay. I just want Pachy to be happy and I'm never sure if he is or not.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

Basically, you learn to depend on yourself. You learn to survive even if you don't have any always-wise parent figure you can depend on. You learn (or can learn) to be able to analyze what a T (or other person) may be missing, and to examine how you react to that.

An advantage to that is that there can be some pride that you feel by doing it all on your own. A sense of competence and achievement. It might be a little similar to how I feel about having beaten depression without taking meds. It wasn't my idea--my therapist said she wouldn't work with me if I took meds and so I didn't. I might have been helped at the time by meds, but it worked out OK!

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by sunrise

An advantage to that is that there can be some pride that you feel by doing it all on your own. A sense of competence and achievement.

Yes. It isn't easy, though.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I just want Pachy to be happy and I'm never sure if he is or not.

Neither am I!

There are things (mainly a person on my wavelength) I wish I had that I don't have. Not sure how to get them, or if I ever will. Meantime I do the best I know how.

[childofyen]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

Neither am I!

There are things (mainly a person on my wavelength) I wish I had that I don't have. Not sure how to get them, or if I ever will. Meantime I do the best I know how.

I can relate to that.

[eskielover]

I know that all the psychologists I have had before the one I have now really failed me.....but it wasn't to my advantage......I went on being oblivious to my emotions.....& even to my thoughts as they would pass through my mind without really recognizing them, acknowledging what they even were........with the psychologist I have now along with the DBT group that I'm going to, I realize that I did have skills, but didn't know what they were & also am learning new skills. Some work for me & some don't.....but at least now I know what skills are available & can pick & choose what I need to apply when I'm in a bad situation. I love being able to sit down with my psychologist & logically talk through my emotions......emotions that I wasn't willing to even acknowledge existed. The sad thing I look at the T's that failed in accomplishing this with me that it was really a waste of over 10 years & going through some heavy trauma while being with them with NO HELP. Where I would have been if I was where I am now during those trauma's would have been like night & day.

I am thankful that I finally have been able to find the right therapy....long after I really was needing it......can't really even go back & analyze where I was at that point because the emotions have long since passed & don't want to go back & find them again.

There are many things that our mind isn't even in tune with & we don't understand unless we have outside assistance in pointing it out because it's become so much a part of us that we don't recognize it as anything in need of recognizing & we go on oblivious to the things that are really hurting us.......Whether it's a T, or another counselor, outside observation & their pointing out the things that are just a natural state that continues to hurt us is not a Do It Yourself sort of thing......we need to be an active part of it......but there is just too much of ourselves that we can't recognize without others pointing it out & working with us to HELP US FIND OUT SOLUTION.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by eskielover

The sad thing I look at the T's that failed in accomplishing this with me that it was really a waste of over 10 years & going through some heavy trauma while being with them with NO HELP. Where I would have been if I was where I am now during those trauma's would have been like night & day.... there is just too much of ourselves that we can't recognize without others pointing it out & working with us to HELP US FIND OUT SOLUTION.

I didn't say that being without a decent T was an advantage; I meant it could be an advantage.