[skysblue]

Don't get me wrong - my T is awesome. She is empathic, sensitive, caring, compassionate and knows a lot more than me about regulating emotions.

But, I have a need for cognitive understanding. I do understand now that relying on rational analysis will not get a person far in knowing or understanding their mental makeup. But I also know that the right brain and the left brain work together. Both are needed - the rational and the emotional.

So, I have read a ton of books in order to grasp some understanding of 'the process'. Because of that reading along with the help my T is giving, I think I have gained a lot.

What I'm wondering is if T had better explained to me what the 'process' was, would I have more easily aligned myself with it? Being so confused about what was going on as we traveled this newly opened emotional road became part of my problem.

I've read some books in which the therapists explain clearly what's going on with the brain and how it's affecting current emotions and behaviors. "Mindsight' is a good example of such a book.

So, should I tell T what I think about her method so maybe she might consider adjusting it for other clients? I no longer need her to explain the process because I think I now 'get it'. Or should I just keep quiet? I don't want her to feel criticized or that I don't value all she's done. But it seems like with some clients like myself who need clearer understanding, it might benefit them.

On the other hand, why waste my session caring about other clients? Any thoughts about this??

[ECHOES]

For me, I came to understand that much of my reading about therapy was an attempt to control the process, and my therapist. I wanted my therapy to be just like "this" or "that" and I wanted my therapist to be just like "him" or "her".
I had to take a break from the reading and focus on what MY therapy was, which is not the therapy of books I've read. Some aspects are, yes. Others, not. I realized that is why there are so many books on therapy - there are many kinds of therapies and many kinds of therapists.

On the other hand, my therapist always encourages feedback, so if I felt strongly, I would go ahead and talk about it with her.

[stopdog]

I have told mine I read and go see other therapists when she either can't or won't explain things to me. It has not fazed her, but I did not think I was telling her to help other clients. I know she has given books to other clients so it is not that she is anti-reading, but rather anti me reading. I disagree so I read and do what other things I can for answers and information she refuses to give. I see nothing wrong with telling her if you want, I just am not certain it will help others if that is your main objective.

[skysblue]

I just came to a realization. Maybe my T didn't go that direction because she saw that I was feeding my intellectual curiosity outside of session. She may have thought that engaging in that way during session would have been a waste of time. Therefore, she concentrated on me getting in touch with my emotions. Or maybe she did explain stuff but I wasn't ready or able to 'hear' her.

It's just that it's taking me such a long time to get where I want to go. I guess there's no point looking back and trying to determine what might have worked better faster.

Thanks Echoes about your point of trying to control the process. I'm always feeling like if I don't direct the session, choose the topics, discuss issues I decide, then we'll just flop around directionless and not get anywhere at all.

[roads]

Originally Posted by skysblue

I just came to a realization. Maybe my T didn't go that direction because she saw that I was feeding my intellectual curiosity outside of session.

This would be my guess. If she'd taken the time to work thru this with you in session, I'm not sure it would have taken any less time overall. your realizing xyz seems less time consuming that your realizing xyz and then discussing it with your T.

Making the progress is the Great March of therapy. Congrats for that!

[rainbow8]

skysblue, I can't answer whether you should tell your T or not. I think the bigger issue is that you are still intellectualizing about it. I'm not criticizing you because I do that too. In fact, I'm very curious as to what you think, or know, that the "process" is. I'm not sure there is any one process in therapy. I haven't read Mindsight yet, but that's ony one book and I've learned that it's confusing and unhelpful to believe/accept what someone writes because no one ever agrees!

Like with the EMDR. According to my T it's been proven to be effective yet not every believes it. There are "cures" for diseases that people swear by but others would never touch. There are so many kinds of therapy and so many books, as ECHOES says. Yes, there are new findings about the brain and how it works. EMDR is supposed to change the brain. But what exactly is this "process" you're talking about? I think the process is the connection we have with our Ts; my Ts have all told me that. The process is about feeling, not intellectualizing about our brains. I am interested in what the books say but I don't think an explanation about that process or the process of therapy would help clients. I think therapy is something you have to experience without the books. (unless it's DBT)

I think it might after all be productive to talk to your T about your ideas. I'd be curious as to her reaction.

Please post what the "process" is that you're talking about. Thanks!

[googley]

If you think there is a way she could have helped you more, then I think you should bring it up. I wouldn't tell her to do it with other clients, as every client is unique. But it would be good to tell her what would have helped you. And to tell her what she might be lacking in her implementation in therapy. Constructive feedback can be helpful. And then you can also talk about why she chose to do it the way she did. It sounds like you intellectualize a lot and your T wanted to get you away from this and be able to feel your emotions. It could be an enlightening experience to talk about this with her.

[ECHOES]

Thanks Echoes about your point of trying to control the process. I'm always feeling like if I don't direct the session, choose the topics, discuss issues I decide, then we'll just flop around directionless and not get anywhere at all.

Oh, but those are things that are for you to do.
It is where it leads from there, beginning with T's responses, that is the process and that we do not need to attempt to control. The process can be as vague as can be and still work. Feeling better can come and it can be unclear to us why we're feeling better, especially at first. It is okay to just let happen...

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by skysblue

So, should I tell T what I think about her method so maybe she might consider adjusting it for other clients? I no longer need her to explain the process because I think I now 'get it'. Or should I just keep quiet? I don't want her to feel criticized or that I don't value all she's done. But it seems like with some clients like myself who need clearer understanding, it might benefit them.

Well presumably, she knows how to adjust her method for each individual client so I don't think you need to tell her that. Maybe you could tell her you'd like to have a rather left-brained session and discuss how her process of therapy has helped you, what else might have helped you even more, and share with her some insights from Mindsight that helped you understand better what was happening to your brain in therapy.

In general, I don't discuss books on therapy with my T or the process of therapy. And I don't even read them too much. I have a tendency to be very analytical and intellectual and I try to keep that from dominating therapy, although I don't ban it. What's going to be healing to me in therapy is all the right-brained feeling stuff. Others may have different challenges and so need to be more thinking and analytical in therapy. Skysblue, remember Stuart the analytical lawyer client from Mindsight? The T deliberately had to avoid getting sucked into fascinating discussions of the brain basis for psychotherapy with Stuart--the scientific evidence, the neurobiological basis for each exercise they would be doing together, etc. I'm not as left-brained as Stuart but it does help me to keep too much analysis out of my therapy.

But I think if you want to share the insights you've gained from reading Mindsight, there is nothing wrong with that. And telling her how therapy might have helped you even more is fine too. I just don't think you need to pitch it as I'm telling you this so you can help your other clients. Because your T may already be changing her approach depending on the client's needs (and brain).

My T is not a brain scientist so I am not sure how much he knows or follows from Siegel (Mindsight author). But he has mentioned to me the neurobiology of emotions and therapy several times. Therapists have been doing psychotherapy for generations and not known about its neurobiological basis, so not all will have that knowledge yet as a lot of the research is within the last 20 years. But it doesn't change that certain approaches are effective in therapy (the therapist knew that empirically)--we just didn't know why before, at a scientific level. (Of course we still don't know everything on this.) At my last session, a month ago, my T mentioned Siegel as someone he thought was doing really good work. So I read Mindsight. I want to tell T I read it but I'm afraid we will get distracted from therapy if I do. I see him infrequently, so I feel I can't squander a session on a book discussion... Not optimal, but if we had frequent sessions, maybe I would.

Originally Posted by skysblue

What I'm wondering is if T had better explained to me what the 'process' was, would I have more easily aligned myself with it? Being so confused about what was going on as we traveled this newly opened emotional road became part of my problem.

It was interesting that when my husband and I did couples sessions with my T, especially in the first few where my husband was brand new to T, T explained the process a lot more and was really left-brained with my husband. He took a really different approach than with me! So I could see right in front of my eyes that T acted differently with different clients. (I still remember sitting there watching T, thinking "who are you?" LOL)

[SoupDragon]

I am beginning to think that anything and everything we share with T is progress, regardless of the content - it is the process isn't it, including the process of sharing something that we are not sure how T will react to.

I have got really annoyed with my T at times for not telling me the process, I could have had this therapy thing all done and dusted by now - but on reflection, I am still doing this therapy thing without T telling me what to do next, what to expect and part of me tells me that is valuable, I own this work, it is my work, so it is me that dictates the process.

Life doesn't start when T stops, I am living my life now, T is just another of my life experiences, so why do I want to rush through it - why can't I just be with it and not wish this important part of my life away.

[learning1]

Originally Posted by sunrise

It was interesting that when my husband and I did couples sessions with my T, especially in the first few where my husband was brand new to T, T explained the process a lot more and was really left-brained with my husband. He took a really different approach than with me! So I could see right in front of my eyes that T acted differently with different clients. (I still remember sitting there watching T, thinking "who are you?" LOL)

That's interesting. Do you have an idea why your t explained the process to your husband more than to you?

Originally Posted by skysblue

So, I have read a ton of books in order to grasp some understanding of 'the process'. Because of that reading along with the help my T is giving, I think I have gained a lot.

What I'm wondering is if T had better explained to me what the 'process' was, would I have more easily aligned myself with it? Being so confused about what was going on as we traveled this newly opened emotional road became part of my problem.

Are you sure there is a process that could have been logically predicted and explained, in a way you would have agreed with, ahead of time? I'm not sure I believe there's such a clearly definable process. But if you feel you have some insights now that would have helped if they had been explained logically before you discovered them yourself, I think it wouldn't hurt to say so to your therapist. Maybe it would be another strategy for her to use sometimes.

[sweepy62]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

For me, I came to understand that much of my reading about therapy was an attempt to control the process, and my therapist. I wanted my therapy to be just like "this" or "that" and I wanted my therapist to be just like "him" or "her".
I had to take a break from the reading and focus on what MY therapy was, which is not the therapy of books I've read. Some aspects are, yes. Others, not. I realized that is why there are so many books on therapy - there are many kinds of therapies and many kinds of therapists.

On the other hand, my therapist always encourages feedback, so if I felt strongly, I would go ahead and talk about it with her.

i totally agree with u thats what i was doing i was reading books about therapists and clients and comparing to my therapy also reading on how therapists should act and all sorts of books so i was focusing on the books rather than what i had in front of me my therapist and i

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by learning1

Are you sure there is a process that could have been logically predicted and explained, in a way you would have agreed with, ahead of time? I'm not sure I believe there's such a clearly definable process.

You're right. My T has told me that it's not a linear process that can be predicted.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by sweepy62

i totally agree with u thats what i was doing i was reading books about therapists and clients and comparing to my therapy also reading on how therapists should act and all sorts of books so i was focusing on the books rather than what i had in front of me my therapist and i

I don't think I ever compared my T with any T's in the books i read. I just gained a lot of technical understanding of how the brain works and with that understanding have been able to embrace the methods my T has utilized.

With that knowledge gained by my reading I offered less conscious resistance to her help. Of course, I still had unconscious resistance but could recognize it better just by noticing my actions and emotions. The supportive knowledge I acquired from books has helped me and is helping me tackle my problems better (I think).

[unaluna]

I think it would be good to talk about it, but without any fixed purpose or agenda in mind.

Originally Posted by skysblue

I've read some books in which the therapists explain clearly what's going on with the brain and how it's affecting current emotions and behaviors. "Mindsight' is a good example of such a book.

Yeah, but they don't explain it to their clients as they are going through it, right? Even with a brain-oriented T like Siegel, I'm pretty sure he believes that insight-- you making the connection between your internal experience and emotional and behavioral states-- is still important. Explaining what *may* be a relationship between your brain and how you think and feel and behave takes away from your ability to understand this connection.

My T said something last week as a way to explaining something to me that sounded like he's read this book. This is what he said, neuroplasticity, blah blah blah, imagining feeling another way, blah blah blah.

Yeah, that was really clear, I know. Actually, he was telling me that my sense of being broken in some way that can't be fixed is a result of the neurology of trauma and with work that involved changing the neuroplasticity of my brain, I would feel differently. I surely hope he could see that I thought this was about as likely as winged monkeys flying out of my rear end.

My point is that I think that these things can be explained, but I don't find a lot of meaning in them.

Anne

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by hankster

I think it would be good to talk about it, but without any fixed purpose or agenda in mind.

im the opposite.

I tell my treatment providers all the time whether their treatment options and how they work with me works or doesnt work. I always have a fixed purpose /agenda - my mental and physical well being.

I have been in therapy since childhood. the one thing that has always always been stressed, enforced and recommended by my therapists, psychiatrists even the court system and the social services agency - "amandalouise you are your best advocate for your problems, we are not mind readers, predictors of the future, those working to help you cant help you if they dont know whats going on with you, only you can tell us whats going on and whether we are on the right road for you" along with other variations of this.

At first I thought they were a bit nuts telling me when I was a meer child to tell them when they were doing something wrong, doing something I didnt like or doing something that made me feel uncomfortable and for me to tell them what I needed from them.

but as I followed their direction and opened up to them I saw they worked with me much better when I did tell them things like dont do this or do it this way or just plain shut up already, I dont understand why you are doing it this way, explain things to me ....

now as an adult I carry this teaching over into my adult life by letting my treatment providers know where I stand on things, how I want to do something a different way and hey why are you doing it this way wouldnt it be better that way... LOL

Im the one with the problem so Im the one that must tell them what works and what doesnt for me. whether they carry that over to their other clients thats up to them. All I care about is that they are "my" treatment providers and its "my" money so they are going to do things to "my" satisfaction and comfort zone.

my treatment providers are no more mind readers than I am and theres nothing wrong with someone standing up for their own mental and physical well being.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by 3rdTimesTheCharm

My point is that I think that these things can be explained, but I don't find a lot of meaning in them.

Anne

Yeah, I had asked T numerous times at the beginning WHY we had to address emotions. Really. I'd say, 'tell me again the reason'. I must be the dumbest client she's ever had. Even with all of my so-called analytical 'skills', I just couldn't get it. I was trying to make sense of it in a logical rational way. It wasn't until I had some EXPERIENCE of what she was talking about that it began to filter into my brain.

So, she indulged me a little and I suspect she knew it wouldn't make any difference but she knew I needed (at that time) some kind of rational explanation whether there was 'meaning' in it for me or not.

This discussion now here on this thread has clarified for me that T was probably doing exactly what I needed. Thanks everyone.

[CantExplain]

Is it necessary or wise to tell T how she could have helped me better?

It is wise to discuss this with your therapist. It will bring you and T into better understanding of each other.

My T said, "Next time I meet someone like you, I will remember what you told me."

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by learning1

That's interesting. Do you have an idea why your t explained the process to your husband more than to you?

Yes, because my (X)H is exceedingly left-brained and doesn't stretch easily, and my T wasn't out to help him be any different. (He was just trying to help us through the divorce.)

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by skysblue

Yeah, I had asked T numerous times at the beginning WHY we had to address emotions. Really. I'd say, 'tell me again the reason'. I must be the dumbest client she's ever had. Even with all of my so-called analytical 'skills', I just couldn't get it. I was trying to make sense of it in a logical rational way. It wasn't until I had some EXPERIENCE of what she was talking about that it began to filter into my brain.

So, she indulged me a little and I suspect she knew it wouldn't make any difference but she knew I needed (at that time) some kind of rational explanation whether there was 'meaning' in it for me or not.

This discussion now here on this thread has clarified for me that T was probably doing exactly what I needed. Thanks everyone.

I felt exactly the same. But my T never explained as much as I wanted. Sometimes her explanations made no sense to me. I think she was frustrated too. I had to find my own answers and fill the gaps with faith.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by sunrise

He was just trying to help us through the divorce.

I haven't heard that one before. Couple counselling to save your marriage, yes. Couple counselling to ease your divorce... ...and yet it makes sense. I'm just surprised there was any good will left for T to work with.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I haven't heard that one before. Couple counselling to save your marriage, yes. Couple counselling to ease your divorce... ...and yet it makes sense. I'm just surprised there was any good will left for T to work with.

Yes, it's called uncoupling therapy. Part of the T's job is to find and nurture the good will.

Originally Posted by skysblue

This discussion now here on this thread has clarified for me that T was probably doing exactly what I needed.

That feels so good, doesn't it? To know your T is really competent and understands your needs. Yay!