[Chopin99]

*****POSSIBLE TRIGGER - ALCOHOLISM*****

Like several of you, my H has reservations about my asking T about a post-therapy association/friendship. I plan to give this to T/read it to her along with my question (posted in a different thread yesterday).

His concerns:
To clarify, I do not think that you are destined to fail with your therapy. What I said was that I worry that you will be putting yourself immediately back into the situation that you are working to deal with. I don’t want you to go through all of this work and then decide a week later that it did not work because the first test you come across is not a glowing success. More than anyone, I hope you find constructive ways to deal with problems. But most problems with the mind don’t have a magic pill…they take work and confidence that you can succeed. I think of it like an alcoholic….They want a drink every day and have to come up with a reason not to. But it has to be easier to say no after a year than it would be after just finished DTing. If nothing else, they have evidence that they have been able to handle it for a year.

It’s my job to worry about you; I don’t apologize for that. But worrying about you is not the same thing as expecting you to fail. I hope you can understand the difference.

This is very sweet of him because he's being protective of me. However, he also said during the original conversation that he has no empathy for my OCD. In fact, he is quite the opposite. He can wait forever for an answer and it does not bother him. He is the most patient man I have ever met (he'd have to be to put up with me AND be a 911 telecommunicator by trade).

I just want the damn thing settled. I want to know if I'm reading her right. Either there's a chance or there isn't. If there isn't, I can deal with it right then and there. If there is, then maybe I have something to look forward to. My life or my healing does not depend on her answer, I just want the answer to get it out of the way so I can concentrate on my healing.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

If there is, then maybe I have something to look forward to.

This statement is exactly why the answer has to be no. There is no way this could not affect your therapy. That's the "clinical" answer.

I may be way too Freudian for my own good, but this one statement of yours is so despairing. And again I think it goes back to rapprochement. My mother punished me for wanting to go out on my own, as did her mother, as did my father's father. Independence was NOT encouraged! On the other hand, I was forced to take on responsibilities beyond my age and abilities, which was scary, and I didn't do so well at. So now you want to make sure that T will still be there to hold your hand after you're "done", so you won't be scared like this again? Am I getting more out of my advice to you than you are?? Sorry!! But thank you for the opportunity to talk this out. I love when people show up here with MY problems! I mean, it sucks for THEM, but it helps me...

[bluemountains]

I can understand what Hankster is saying. Personally, though, I would ask the question just because I had to. Your t can handle this in a professional way, in which case you will explore why there is this need for friendship, or your t can let you know that you will indeed be friends and identify what that friendship will mean.
Your husband loves you and wants to protect you. He may be giving you the right advice, but I still believe that this need for your t's friendship in an issue that must be dealt with in therapy. If she is, indeed, the person you have described here, I think that she will handle this in a way that will allow you to grow.
When I am not settled with an issue, which obviously I am not judging from the amount of threads I have started lately, I find that I am super OCD and can't focus on much else until I feel settled.
Good luck!
Bluemountains

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by hankster

This statement is exactly why the answer has to be no. There is no way this could not affect your therapy. That's the "clinical" answer.

I may be way too Freudian for my own good, but this one statement of yours is so despairing. And again I think it goes back to rapprochement. My mother punished me for wanting to go out on my own, as did her mother, as did my father's father. Independence was NOT encouraged! On the other hand, I was forced to take on responsibilities beyond my age and abilities, which was scary, and I didn't do so well at. So now you want to make sure that T will still be there to hold your hand after you're "done", so you won't be scared like this again? Am I getting more out of my advice to you than you are?? Sorry!! But thank you for the opportunity to talk this out. I love when people show up here with MY problems! I mean, it sucks for THEM, but it helps me...

Well, I'm glad I was of help. Because you and I have some similarities, but some striking differences.

I am not very Freudian. Neither is my T and that is why she explains that her love is not transference or counter-transference. It is genuine love. When I expressed last week that I saw her as a mother figure and she said, "You already know , I cannot be your mom in this process," she was stating what I did already know. I really don't want T to be my mom. I only want one mom: my own...with all her flaws! However, I can enjoy how maternal my T is within the relationship.

Neither do I want my T to be my T when I'm done with therapy. I don't want to associate with her outside of therapy until I am WELL!! I know my therapy will end and at that point, I will no longer need T to be my T or my friend. If she will, I would be happy, if she won't, I'll still be happy. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, Freud! I would be just as happy if she would become a business associate and serve on my human rights committee at work.

Now that I have explained my motives more explicitly to my H, he feels much better about me asking. He still doesn't understand why I need to ask NOW but he admits he cannot understand OCD. He has no frame of reference.

Originally Posted by bluemountains

I can understand what Hankster is saying. Personally, though, I would ask the question just because I had to. Your t can handle this in a professional way, in which case you will explore why there is this need for friendship, or your t can let you know that you will indeed be friends and identify what that friendship will mean.
Your husband loves you and wants to protect you. He may be giving you the right advice, but I still believe that this need for your t's friendship in an issue that must be dealt with in therapy. If she is, indeed, the person you have described here, I think that she will handle this in a way that will allow you to grow.
When I am not settled with an issue, which obviously I am not judging from the amount of threads I have started lately, I find that I am super OCD and can't focus on much else until I feel settled.
Good luck!
Bluemountains

I agree, Bluemountains, that my T will handle this gently and therapeutically no matter the answer.

I think that perhaps I am using the word "friendship" a bit too loosely and it's causing people to read into it too much. What I am actually looking for post-therapy is an association based particularly upon our shared interest in the mental health field. I imagine seeing her 3-4 times a year just to catch up and talk shop. If that eventually develops into a true friendship, okay. If not, okay. Like my husband said attempting to clarify, "You're not looking for us to eat dinner at her house Christmas Eve." The answer is no.

The only "abnormal" thing about the whole debacle is this: due to my OCD, I want to know NOW. So I'm going to ask tomorrow. I'm actually looking forward to it...no matter the answer.

[capecodfish]

Not sure where you are or what credentials your therapist has, but most professional associations have a strict rule about contact outside of therapy with the client that extends to a certain period of time AFTER the termination of therapy (the shortest of which I've ever heard is 2 years). The therapist cannot terminate therapy for the sole purpose of starting the waiting period either. Some therapist even have a "once a client, always a client" policy.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by capecodfish

Not sure where you are or what credentials your therapist has, but most professional associations have a strict rule about contact outside of therapy with the client that extends to a certain period of time AFTER the termination of therapy (the shortest of which I've ever heard is 2 years). The therapist cannot terminate therapy for the sole purpose of starting the waiting period either. Some therapist even have a "once a client, always a client" policy.

Thanks capecodfish.

My T is an master's level LPC licensed in the state we live (USA) and counsels in a practice comprised of Christian counselors. The two year rule appears to apply to sexual relationships only. My state has no statutes on non-sexual dual roles and the APA and ACA seem to be ambivalent regarding this. I have no sexual interest in my T. We are both female. I'm asking T tomorrow if she has the "once a client, always a client" policy.

Originally Posted by Chopin99

What I am actually looking for post-therapy is an association based particularly upon our shared interest in the mental health field. I imagine seeing her 3-4 times a year just to catch up and talk shop.

I totally expect to have this with my T when I'm done with therapy. I feel sure that we will send e-mails occasionally to touch base, and I will probably visit with him a couple of times a year...but I will see him in his office, and pay him for the session.

I know that my T really likes me, and I really like him, AND there is a boundary. I feel like our relationship can continue pretty much indefinitely within that boundary.

If you only want to see her to touch base 3 or 4 times a year, couldn't you just schedule sessions? Is there a reason it has to move outside the boundaries of the relationship you already have? (I'm honestly just curious)

[eclogite]

You seem very fixated on this issue. I hope you can come to some type of resolution soon.

Originally Posted by Chopin99

If she will, I would be happy, if she won't, I'll still be happy... I would be just as happy if she would become a business associate and serve on my human rights committee at work.

Will you be just as happy with neither?

I DO think it's totally fine to ask. No matter WHAT the answer, yes, or no, or maybe. EVERYTHING that happens in therapy matters, and teaches us something about ourselves. T and I played Uno once in session, which seemed like a happy, fun thing, and led to a panicked phone call between sessions! You just never know what therapy will bring up!

(sorry! for all of my PC-use, I still don't know how to break quotes up in a post, so this is a continuation of my previous post!)

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by treehouse

I totally expect to have this with my T when I'm done with therapy. I feel sure that we will send e-mails occasionally to touch base, and I will probably visit with him a couple of times a year...but I will see him in his office, and pay him for the session.

I know that my T really likes me, and I really like him, AND there is a boundary. I feel like our relationship can continue pretty much indefinitely within that boundary.

If you only want to see her to touch base 3 or 4 times a year, couldn't you just schedule sessions? Is there a reason it has to move outside the boundaries of the relationship you already have? (I'm honestly just curious)

Hi Tree and thanks for the hugs!

As of right now, I don't think I'd have a problem with having occasional sessions once the main work is done. However, I'd rather it be a non-paid professional association that is mutually beneficial. If I wanted her to be on my work committee, she'd have to volunteer if she was willing. Then if a real friendship grew through that, bonus!

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by eclogite

You seem very fixated on this issue. I hope you can come to some type of resolution soon.

I'm OCD. If I wasn't fixated on this, I'd be fixated on something else. This is my current obsession.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by treehouse

Will you be just as happy with neither?

I DO think it's totally fine to ask. No matter WHAT the answer, yes, or no, or maybe. EVERYTHING that happens in therapy matters, and teaches us something about ourselves. T and I played Uno once in session, which seemed like a happy, fun thing, and led to a panicked phone call between sessions! You just never know what therapy will bring up!

(sorry! for all of my PC-use, I still don't know how to break quotes up in a post, so this is a continuation of my previous post!)

Sorry, I didn't catch this reply last night Tree, but that might be a good thing. Everything looks a bit different after a good night's sleep. This morning, I have an unusual sense of peace about the whole thing. I'm not used to having peace about a situation such as this (or anything for that matter )! When I want something, I usually WANT it and I WANT it RIGHTNOW!!! And if I don't get it:

However, this is my perspective this morning: I'm going to ask. I will be happy whatever the answer. If the answer is absolutely, unequivocally, "no", what will change? Absolutely nothing!! I will continue to have the same relationship with her that I have now and that relationship is pretty awesome!! I am healing!! I feel like I've had a breakthrough in the way I think! I am assured I WILL be okay no matter what!

And that, friends, is freeing!

[bluemountains]

Good luck with your session today, Chopin. I hope that you are able to calm your OCD today with your question.

Bluemountains

[Perna]

Since it is about the future, I don't know that she can or will answer it now? It will depend on so many things that cannot be known yet, not an answer you wish to hear with OCD but that's the problem with the future.

[mcl6136]

there are so many fish in the sea....knowing that, why is this so vital?

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

The only "abnormal" thing about the whole debacle is this: due to my OCD, I want to know NOW. So I'm going to ask tomorrow. I'm actually looking forward to it...no matter the answer.

I understand completely.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by mcl6136

there are so many fish in the sea...

For some of us (meaning me), making new friends is not easy. Good relationships are rare and worth fighting for.

I once had a dilemma very similar to Chopin's. I used to be afraid that T would say, "You're cured. Now go away." I raised this with her and she assured me I can keep coming no matter how sane I get.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

For some of us (meaning me), making new friends is not easy. Good relationships are rare and worth fighting for.

I once had a dilemma very similar to Chopin's. I used to be afraid that T would say, "You're cured. Now go away." I raised this with her and she assured me I can keep coming no matter how sane I get.

Well CantExplain, it looks somewhat promising for me to have a post-therapy association and at this point, I'm going to fight for it. Thing is, it triggered me to a very bad place because I saw myself in a past situation. At least when I emailed her, T wanted to see me tomorrow because of it, even though right now she is confused about what it triggered. She really does care, though.

I'm going to ask her to help me re-write the script with a happy ending this time.

[Unrigged64072835]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

I'm going to ask her to help me re-write the script with a happy ending this time.

Sounds like a very good idea!

[unaluna]

If y'all will permit me to quote an Alcoholics Anonymous bumper sticker I believe is appropriate for the OP and the occasion:

"Let Go and Let God"

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by hankster

If y'all will permit me to quote an Alcoholics Anonymous bumper sticker I believe is appropriate for the OP and the occasion:

"Let Go and Let God"

OMG Hankster I'm going to find out where you live and come and smack you!

I am a Christian, but that phrase goes all over me...even T uses it and I wanted to smack her.

My question is "HOW HOW HOW??? I've tried for 34 years and it hasn't worked yet!!!" That's the main skill I need to learn...how to let go!

[unaluna]

You're right - we ARE alike! Me neither! That must be why it stuck in my mind!

I was just looking at Rainbow8's new thread where she mentions the play Stop the world I want to get off - I was like, I sang a song in high school choir from that, went on amazon --- What Kind of Fool Am I? NOT.EVEN.FUNNY!