Enlightenment: A Form of Psychopathology?

Dec 31, 2011, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

Cream pies in the face if you like, but then an end to this thread. Or reasonably serious consideration and an extended discussion.

Stating the obvious: you're not in charge here, in this thread or any other.

Those who are really enlightened are the first ones to have and show a sense of humor, to poke fun at themselves and the concept itself.

Anne

Ygrec23 · Dec 31, 2011, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rdTimesTheCharm

Stating the obvious: you're not in charge here, in this thread or any other.

Of course you're right, Anne.

Quote:

Those who are really enlightened are the first ones to have and show a sense of humor, to poke fun at themselves and the concept itself.

Don't disagree for a second, but so far we really haven't had much serious commentary as a base for some humor. Me, I'm really interested to hear from PC members who are serious about enlightenment and would like to share their experiences and thoughts. My impatience comes not only from this thread but many others too.

Take care.

Dec 31, 2011, 12:33 PM

A small amount of humility is very helpful in discussions, from my experience. This world of online forums is very new to me, and it is so different from "real" (as one poster recently put it) experiences of social relationships.

Sometimes I am surprised by the inability to really see and appreciate what people offer here, even if it's not what one is looking for. Closing off rather than opening up is really not the direction to head, and it is definitely ironic that it is happening in this thread. There is dismissiveness and anger around who says what in which thread and people say pretty often that they don't want to hear X, they only want to hear Y.

Of course, saying this is basically the same thing that I'm complaining about, so I'll be the first one in line at the hypocrite station.

Anne

Inedible · Dec 31, 2011, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

Can't you tell us about it, Inedible?

It seems like everyone has a different idea as to what qualifies as enlightenment. It isn't even just the arguments about whether it occurs in an instant or develops over a period of time; there are arguments about if it is possible to become increasingly enlightened or if it is an absolute state which a person either has or doesn't have. I have even heard it argued that it is possible to gain enlightenment only to lose it again and become unenlightened.

There are even teachers who say that everyone is already enlightened and we just need to realize it. I think that one of the Krishnamurti teachers said it, but I don't remember if it is U.G. or J. The problem is that it doesn't matter how many times people repeat it if it doesn't do anything to make anyone's lives even just a tiny bit easier to get through.

FooZe · Dec 31, 2011, 05:08 PM

Is it safe to continue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rdTimesTheCharm

"He achieved the very rare spiritual state of personal enlightenment."

I found that particular bio posted on half a dozen websites: 1 (the one 3rdTimes linked to), 2, 3 (PDF, 16 pages), 4 (a variation with a religious twist*), 5 (Google-cached version), 6 (PDF, 2 pages). We don't know if Dr. Nuckols wrote it himself in the third person or if someone else was writing about him but either way, he'd pretty well have to know it's out there.

The main problem I see with it is that enlightenment is more a way of experiencing, a context in which you experience, than something that you experience. It definitely isn't something you can have, or hold onto, or achieve, or (especially) put on your resume. At any given moment you can experience life from an enlightened place or you can say you're enlightened, but not both.

*Interestingly, I came across an online book sample (Google, I thought) where Nuckols says something like, you can work your way up to being ready to be enlightened but enlightenment itself only comes by the grace of God. I would've loved to find it again and cite it exactly but the browsing history that would show it is on a different computer.

----------------------------
edited to add:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inedible

I have even heard it argued that it is possible to gain enlightenment only to lose it again and become unenlightened.

There are even teachers who say that everyone is already enlightened and we just need to realize it.

This fits nicely with what I was saying above. The way to lose it is to turn it into a thing and try to hold onto it.

Perna · Dec 31, 2011, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FooZe

Interestingly, I came across an online book sample (Google, I thought) where Nuckols says

But, who made Nuckols an expert on my enlightenment?

I get to decide what I believe, perceive, and receive as enlightenment for me. You do not have to agree with me but I can say, "I am enlightened because I have/own my enlightenment, it is right here with me now!" LOL

FooZe · Dec 31, 2011, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FooZe

I would've loved to find it again and cite it exactly but the browsing history that would show it is on a different computer.

It's on page 147 of Cardwell Nuckols' The Ego-Less Self: Achieving Peace, in the caption to Fig. 5.1:

Quote:

In order to reach the state of enlightenment, one must receive a gift from God, as it cannot be achieved by one's own desire.

missbelle · Dec 31, 2011, 06:09 PM

Psychopathology is the study of mental illness, mental distress, and abnormal/maladaptive behavior. The term is most commonly used within psychiatry where pathology refers to disease processes. Abnormal psychology is a similar term used more frequently in the non-medical field

Enlightenment (spiritual), a final blessed state free from ignorance, desire and suffering(This is the spiritual aspect of the word...something we strive for...like the journey...but we never really reach.................

I cannot see where it at all fits that enlightenment is a form of the study of mental illness!The Buddists were big on this I believe

missbelle · Dec 31, 2011, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FooZe

I believe the traditional comeback to something like that is, "Those who know don't say, and those who say don't know."

and that my friends is true enlightenment!!!!!!

Inedible · Dec 31, 2011, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missbelle

I cannot see where it at all fits that enlightenment is a form of the study of mental illness!The Buddists were big on this I believe

Enlightenment itself has nothing to do with mental illness, but the process of reaching it can resemble mental illness.

CantExplain · Jan 01, 2012, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcl6136

No, I found my niche, neither leading nor following. I squeeze, brew and carry the lemonade.

It's so important to stay hydrated, I find...especially here in the arid West.

You're a waitress?

FooZe · Jan 01, 2012, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

Well, for starters, their families might be complaining that they weren't showing up at work all that regularly these days. Nor spending enough time with the kids playing computer games. Nor watching television with the spouse.

[snipped]

If they complained of anything I guess it would have to be something to the effect that they didn't understand why so many people were trying to stop them from what they wanted to do.

This reminded me of something I'd read before. It wasn't till I remembered it was by Ken Wilber that I was even able to search for it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Wilber

Although there are numerous important exceptions, the general consensus of the Western scientific community is that the 'Eastern' mind is regressive, primitive, or at best, just plain feeble, while the Eastern philosopher is apt to reply that Western scientific materialism represents the grossest form of illusion, ignorance, and spiritual deprivation. For example, Franz Alexander, representing a breed of Western investigation called psychoanalysis, states, 'The obvious similarities between schizophrenic regressions and the practices of Yoga and Zen merely indicate that the general trend in Oriental cultures is to withdraw into the self from an overbearingly difficult physical and social reality.' D. T. Suzuki, representing the Eastern approach, as if to reply, states, 'Scientific knowledge of the Self is not real knowledge... Self-knowledge is possible only... when scientists lay down all their gadgets of experimentation, and confess that they cannot continue their researches any further...'

It's from The Spectrum of Consciousness. I just found a Google Books copy here.

----------------------------------
Q: What do we do before we're enlightened?

A: Cut wood, carry water.

Q: What do we do after we're enlightened?

A: Cut wood, carry water.

Menu

Enlightenment: A Form of Psychopathology?

My Support Forums