[CantExplain]

COLD

My T is concerned that I don't dress warmly enough on cold mornings. She said she wanted to keep me warm, wrap me up, tuck me in at night. It was a full paragraph of mothering, the longest "I want to take care of you" speach she's ever given.

So why don't I wear enough clothes? We didn't exactly solve this problem, but here are some ideas:
1. I wear as little as possible because I like being naked.
2. I wear as little as possible in order to express intimacy.
3. I dress to express my feminine side.
4. Full winter gear is essentially sexless and I don't like that.

MANLINESS

One of the ways BIL triggers me is that his voice is sometimes deeper than mine. That makes me fear that I am less of a man than he is. The "C word" as Hankster puts it.

Fifteen or twenty years ago, I had a full set of male privileges.

1. I worked full time and my wife worked little or not at all.
2. I unquestionably earned more money than she did. I was the breadwinner.
3. W did all the housework.
4. My car was bigger, newer and nicer than hers.
5. We slept in the same bed and I chose which side was mine.
6. We had penetrative sex, not exactly "on demand", but regularly.
7. I was not in touch with my feminine side.

This was a Paternalist Paradise, or the Natural Order of Things, depending whose side you are on.

Since then I have lost all these privileges. She works longer hours than me and we get essentially the same salary. We share the chores. She is about to get a new car. For medical reasons, she no longer sleeps in my bed and we don't have penetrative sex. What sex we do have is limited to weekend mornings. I am now very much in touch with my feminine side and have lost touch with my maleness.

I really only have two male roles left:
1. I work in the male-dominated technology industry.
2. I am building a real-estate empire. I'm only just starting this, and of course we own it jointly. Nevertheless, it is my phallus symbol.

What is the male role in an equal relationship, in an equal society that is not at war? This is a great unsolved question of our time.
And I am facing it square-on for the first time.

MISC

T says that I insist on telling my story through to the end before she responds. This is not easy for her and it's not the way she works with other patients.

[CantExplain]

Dear W says:

"I see you as positively scarily male. There's never been any doubt in my mind."

[WePow]

Sometimes people get too stuck in playing the role they think they are supposed to play. We are handed a script as soon as we enter the world (if not nine months before). We are raised to play to the expectations set before us. After a bit of time and some attempts at finding our own identity, we start to believe the script is how it is and can't be modified or changed. We start to be comfortable in the role we were cast. And when our own growth or the changes of life mess with the lines, we revolt!

It is uncomfortable to toss out the script and just walk out on stage... but sometimes that is when real living can begin.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by WePow

It is uncomfortable to toss out the script and just walk out on stage... but sometimes that is when real living can begin.

I need a script!

[WePow]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I need a script!

LOL !!! You may think you need a script, but you are much more than that. You bring to the world what no other human can or will ever have to offer. You are a YOU. It is special and wonderful and unique.

I challenge you to try something for just three days. For three days give up your script. Everything that happens, every problem that arises, everything you think about doing, do it without a script. Do it right then based only on who you are in the now. Then just watch yourself and notice what that does for you and your joy.

If after 3 days you want to pick up your script again, it is there for you. Society enjoys those who obey and follow their script. So it will be there.
But if you want to drop the script, you will know how to do it :-)

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by WePow

LOL !!! You may think you need a script, but you are much more than that. You bring to the world what no other human can or will ever have to offer. You are a YOU. It is special and wonderful and unique.

I challenge you to try something for just three days. For three days give up your script. Everything that happens, every problem that arises, everything you think about doing, do it without a script. Do it right then based only on who you are in the now. Then just watch yourself and notice what that does for you and your joy.

If after 3 days you want to pick up your script again, it is there for you. Society enjoys those who obey and follow their script. So it will be there.
But if you want to drop the script, you will know how to do it :-)

I don't know how to drop the script.
It would mean giving up my job, for a start.

[elliemay]

“You are not your job, you're not how much money you have in the bank. You are not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You are not your ****ing khakis. You are all singing, all dancing crap of the world.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club

Seems to be on point here.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by elliemay

“You are not your job, you're not how much money you have in the bank. You are not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You are not your ****ing khakis. You are all singing, all dancing crap of the world.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club

Seems to be on point here.

And what about my responsibility to my wife and daughter?

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

And what about my responsibility to my wife and daughter?

And what about it? Doing what you feel you need to do is quite different from who you are don't you think?

Originally Posted by CantExplain

And what about my responsibility to my wife and daughter?

What do you mean? You just said your wife has a well-paid job, right? You and she have a joint responsibility to your child.

[Perna]

I don't dress warmly enough because I hate the bulk of all those clothes and do not expect to be outside where it is cold for any length of time, if I can help it. It's like umbrellas, who wants to have to bother!

As far as being manly, I "expect" my man to keep me warm at night, psychologically and physically; to kill the bugs that are too big for me, psychologically and physically; to pick up where I leave off like I pick up where he leaves off and just generally, to love me more than life itself

I'm not going to say very much in regard to your first post, because you and I live in very different worlds and my notions of makes a man masculine have little to do with your points - I do want to point out that with the exception of penetrative sex, the points you mention are social/cultural constructs of masculinity, not inherently male at all. I realise that doesn't change anything in how you feel about them, but maybe it can be one point to consider?

I also want to applaud your realisation of the fact that you are experiencing loss of privilege. Lots of blokes have real issues with recognising that. Good on you.

your posts are always so interesting-thank you♥
btw we wish it got cold where we live instead of 2000 percent humidity everyday!

[geez]

On the subject of gender........Giving up a job or giving up responsibilities to your wife/child isn't gender role specific IMO. Typically a person (man or woman) would want to take care of both (especially women for typically being 'caretakers/nurturers').

Perhaps a new career is something to strive for?

Are you having a midlife crisis? I hope you don't take my words as insulting. I'm trying to help and offer support.

[WikidPissah]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Dear W says:

"I see you as positively scarily male. There's never been any doubt in my mind."

well there you have it then, wives are ALWAYS correct.

[Sannah]

Can't Explain, very good for tackling this!! My thought is that there is some insecurity underneath your need to reach for the "man privileges" (power). If you work on that insecurity underneath you will not longer need to reach for these.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by WePow

Sometimes people get too stuck in playing the role they think they are supposed to play. We are handed a script as soon as we enter the world (if not nine months before). We are raised to play to the expectations set before us. After a bit of time and some attempts at finding our own identity, we start to believe the script is how it is and can't be modified or changed. We start to be comfortable in the role we were cast. And when our own growth or the changes of life mess with the lines, we revolt!

It is uncomfortable to toss out the script and just walk out on stage... but sometimes that is when real living can begin.

I love this post!

Being scriptless is where it's all happening, as far as I am concerned!

Interesting ...CE that you want to be naked in terms of clothing choices, but otherwise you fall back on the heavy, confining and mostly joyless cloak of "manliness"

[CantExplain]

A joint responsibility is still a responsibility. (Unless, of course, you are a US legislator.)

What I'm hearing is that you have no sympathy for my dilemma. Maybe I should post on the men-only board.

[WePow]

You have my fullest empathy. I was raised to fill the submissive role of daughter/sister/wife. When I found myself wanting another female, I saw how much it pained society and my family for me to not fulfill their expectations. When I again found my faith going against how I was raised, I saw again the wrath against people who had a mind of their own.

I sense you are a strong person. You get to decide what is right for you. Not because anyone else said to do it. But because you decide it is the right thing you want to do. YOU are the boss of YOU.

[elliemay]

I know I have a lot of empathy for your situation. The script that is written for both men and women yokes us both, but it is a cage that most would happily run right back into if given a choice.

You have children, take care of and love your children of course, but not because it is man thing to do, but because it is the right thing to do.

Some of the most manly men I know have acheived that status because they stike their own path, have confidence and care little what others think.

Their internal drive is strong and powerful. I guess that is the essence of a man. Well, a human actually.

In the end, that's all any of us actually are.

[Crescent Moon]

Interesting post, Can'tExplain.

I don't have any answers, but I have heard that as our culture has changed and women have taken on a more autonomous and self-sufficient role, that while some men have been able to adjust, there are men whose very self-concept has been rocked by the changes. They woke up one day, and the rule book was suddenly written in a foreign language, and they don't know how to figure it out.

Only thing I can think of, is maybe broadening how you identify yourself as a man? If your definition is limited to
1. Makes more money
2. Doesn't do house work
3. Has the best car
4. Has penetrative sex frequently enough
..then you're boxed into a pretty small spot with a very limited margin of error. Maybe include things like:
1. Acts as a buffer between the harshness of the world and his family, when a buffer is needed
2. Treats his wife and daughters with such respect and support for their individuality, that they only want to date men who treat them the way their dad treats them.
3. Takes on a role as educator, ensuring his wife and/or daughters know how to manage their money.
4. Is adventurous enough (it's manly to be adventurous) to be willing to get rid of the "old" limited definition of manliness, and is willing to challenge himself to find a much larger definition of manliness that allows you to adjust to the cultural changes that are not going to go away.



I could go on and on. There's just a whole lot more to the breadth of what is "manly" than what you may realize.

[unaluna]

I think CE wants time and freedom to do what he wants. He's saying he's already given up many of the trappings of manliness, ie many of the rights, I think he's asking, if he doesn't get the rights, why does he have to keep up the responsibilities? At least that's what I'd be asking. It's what I did ask, relative to my own situation. What am I, just a pack mule? I don't think so. That's what i'm reading here, anyway.

[CantExplain]

Thanks, gals!