[SpiritRunner]

So, that topic has been on my mind a while and it's really related to some recent threads, too, like the price thread MKAC started ....
Anyway, I saw this quote on a calendar at a friend's house a few days ago - 'friendship is an art and very few are born with the natural gift for it.'
My first thought (negative because I've been feeling somewhat negative about the state of some of my friendships or my ability to make/keep/nurture/nourish them) was that - if that is true, then I definitely was NOT born with the gift!
The 2nd thought/question is .... maybe some don't have the natural gift for it, but can learn it .... and then it must be easier for some to learn it than others?!
I look at most others around me and observe the seeming ease with which they conduct their friendships and social interactions, things seeming to come so simply and naturally, some things almost automatic, an effort yes, but not such conscious effort, like it seems to be for me.
What it seems to be is others are more able in some ways to pay the price, as it were, for friendships .... or things that seem like a cost to me are things that don't seem to be so much a cost for others, or they don't consider the cost to themselves as I can't seem to help but do.
And the willingness to pay the price - maybe this is where I really fall some short. I do want connections/friendships/relationships, but I don't think I'm willing for the price or only willing for part ..... but then you get what you're willing to pay for, probably!

I've been feeling like a good friend has been growing distant from me. I thought she probably needed time/space because we went through an intense time last summer and she did stick with me, but I thought maybe she might need a break from me, sort of! Only the quietness between us lengthened until I asked her about it and she said she thought I was distancing myself from her and that she guessed I thought our friendship was best from afar.
Well, so that had sort of been in my mind, is it really me and her just respecting what she perceives in me? And I have to admit, it is likely true - that I do feel safer with friendships from afar, as it were. I DO want the connection and the bond but I also want distance and space and separateness too most of the time .... the security I suppose of knowing that there is a bond, a relationship that I can turn to when I do feel the need for it but also the safety from too much vulnerability (and preserving myself from having to give more than I imagine I have to give, too, I think, as I don't feel like I have a huge emotional capacity/capability to draw from!). I imagine that I want emotional intimacy and deep intense close friendships, but over the long haul, I turn away and choose distance and emotional space. I guess I can handle intellectual depth and closeness in a relationship but maintained emotional depth and closeness is too hard for me? I suppose it's about learning a balance .....
Anyway, I have made efforts to reconnect with this friend, but am just not sure if we can bridge the distance that has grown ..... and it hurts .... because she has been a good close safe friend and those are rare and precious to me. But I think she might be wondering if I am worth the cost ..... the intensity and then the retreat, the depth and then the distance ....

But I just wonder, why is the very thing I know I feel such longing for at times in the depth of my heart/soul also the thing I DON'T seem to want to pay the price for? Why am I only willing to pay part of the price .... why does the cost seem too great for me? Because the cost of not being willing to pay the price is also great .....
Why is friendship and connection maintenance so damn hard for me?!

And sorry, I rambled on forever again and anyone who reads this all will probably have to uncross the eyes and roll them at me and wonder what one earth can be said to all this?!

[WikidPissah]

(((Spirit))) I read it and didn't cross or roll my eyes at all. I have really distanced myself from good healthy friendships. People say that I am a good friend, and I'm sure they believe it. I send the occasional card, and practice random acts of kindness. But there is always a wall, and I think people pick up on it eventually. I get really open with them, then retract quickly. I feel like I am too much to handle, with all my psych stuff. And I refuse to ask for support when I need it, so there is no give and take. I have two women I consider close friends, and neither knows the battle raging in my mind. I get hospitalized and disappear for a few weeks without telling them where or why. I had a very close brush with death a few mos. back and no one outside of immediate family knows. H and kids know better then to tell and have become good at making excuses for me. Last year I was halfway thru Chemo when my closest friend just stopped by. She was furious I didn't tell her.

[stopdog]

Sometimes a friend grows apart and it is just the way it is, but it is sad nonetheless.

A shock to me was that for some reason, despite me not be nice enough or good enough or whatever, is that I do have friends. My mother was shocked and would tell me she was not sure why people were my friends because I did not do it correctly. But still, while there is no accounting for some taste, some people seem to choose to interact with me. Sometimes I think about a couple of friends I have who I like and enjoy spending time with but they are completely untrustworthy. So as long as all I expect from them is that when we are together it will be fun, I am fine. But if I try to make future plans or expect them to show up at a specific time or count on the doing anything they said they would do-I would be pissed all the time. So with them I had to decide whether staying friends with them based on what I got versus what they could simply not do was worth it. For some it is yes, and others, no. As long as I accept it for what it is, I am fine. They are not the people I call on in times of difficulty.

That rambling of mine may not be as clearly connected as I had hoped. I will amend if I can figure it out.

[unaluna]

maybe friendship, r/s, are like riding a bike, a skill you never forget, one you learn at your mother's knee. but what if there never was a place for you at your mother's knee and you never learned this skill?

[LadyShadow]

I have a hard time with relationships too. Friendships wise. I can disappear for days or months on people, only because I get lost in my own world. Then when I finally come down to reality, there is no one that can be found. It's weird how life works, the people we meet and interact with and how long and how short our friendships last. Makes me wonder too......

[SpiritRunner]

Wikid - I think you probably really ARE a good friend; you are here, offering support and kindness.
I relate to feeling like too much to handle, as far as my own emotional struggles/personality/philosophical or intellectual intensity, whatever you call it - but then you never know, people are willing to handle a surprising amount for their friends, for people they love and care for. And people are able to handle a lot more than I (we) often give them credit for, I think .... probably some wouldn't want to know the real us, or the real struggle, but then not everyone could handle it or needs to know anyway. Just a few who can be more trusted and are more willing .....
Stopdog, I follow what you are saying, I think .... kind of like making a choice in your level of expectations. That, as long as you don't expect things from these people that are not in their capacity or desire to do or give, you can be with them or connect with them at the level at which they are. Higher expectations do lead to greater frustrations or dissatisfaction. I think acceptance of people as they are and recognizing what needs they can meet or what they can give or not give is key; then you can be more satisfied with what you do get and not be pissed because you wish you were getting more from the relationship, because you accept what you get as what they can give. So you don't ask too much and then piss them off either!
Hankster - I sure didn't learn much about good relationship or communication skills or social graces from my parents! But I did learn how to distance myself from the emotional turbulence in the house as a way to survive and protect myself ..... thus that is the old pattern I am yet wrestling with.
I think it's a blend of nurture vs nature though. I am by nature an introvert. I am not shy or afraid of social settings or really of people - but I think I prefer to observe rather than interact! And I am not so sure that that is all so much a product of what I learned ... as it is, it was already there and was much more deeply enforced/reinforced by my environment, and probably in some very unhealthy ways, creating some darker core beliefs than I would have had otherwise. Who knows where one ends and the other begins, though, and why spend so much time teasing that out?

All I know is that there is what feels like an odd dynamic at work in me - that of wanting connection and bonds at the same time as wanting distance and space, separateness and safety. Both exist and both are needs and so how do I care for each of them? And how do I conduct friendships that work in that context and are satisfying and enduring ......

[SpiritRunner]

Oh, and it does not escape my notice that posting this thread and kind of putting it into an analyzing type of context (me and my intellectualizing, ha) has helped me feel better in my body and my mind and not so emotional about what's going on with my friend. Like not the tightness in my throat or lungs and not the irritable twanging buzz in my brain ....
Like it's OK, if she wants to re-connect and it is meant to be, it will be .... and I can wait patiently and make no dramatic assumptions one way or the other about what she's thinking/will do.
I will still be me and I will still know who I am and I can be content enough and accept with grace (I think and hope!) whatever happens in the next phase of this relationship.

[WikidPissah]

That is a super healthy attitude SpiritRunner!

[stopdog]

Intellectualizing rocks.

[Fuzzybear]

SR, I think that I have improved dramatically over the years in my ability to be consistent in my support and behavior and closeness with friends. I have a friend now who does those wild swings of getting really close and then freaking out and dropping off the face of the earth. She apologized for it one time and I just said I knew and empathized with having issues with closeness. I compared it to when I took in a severely abused horse and was trying to teach her to stand tied. The horse expected to get beaten when she was tied up, so she would stand quietly for a while and try to trust me, but the longer she stood there, the more fearful she became until she just freaked out and started fighting the rope and trying to run away.

So, to help the horse overcome her fear, I would use a really long lead rope on her and just lay the rope in the fork of a tree. That way, she was not actually tied, and when she freaked out, she was free to back away. When she had backed away sufficiently, she calmed down. Then, I would reel her back in. She'd freak out and try to get away; I'd let her go away until she was calm and then reel her in and start again. I never let go of her completely, but she was free to get distance from me. Eventually, she calmed down and could just stand there.

I told my friend that in the same way, she was free to run away or get distance whenever she wanted, but I wasn't letting go of her emotionally and planned to just keep going with the friendship and I thought that eventually she'd know she was safe. My friend laughed and thanked me for comparing her to a horse I love, and for not giving up on her. And my friend seems to be slowly overcoming the issue, just as I have gotten better. It does get better as we learn to trust.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

So, to help the horse overcome her fear, I would use a really long lead rope on her and just lay the rope in the fork of a tree.

I should have known there would be a Rifleman-type solution to this! I spoke to my previous T/pdoc who had recommended The Forbidden Planet to me, and told him that movie's writer had also written many Rifleman episodes, and he said they loved The Rifleman, and I said that was why, the same psychological - idk what word i'm looking for.

[SpiritRunner]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Intellectualizing rocks.

It does! I think I have a healthier form of it than I used to, too, one that actually does take into account the feelings/emotions I have rather than just putting them into a box. So I think my intellectualizing is somehow sort of what helps me find a place of mindfulness/acceptance/calmness (the concept of self-compassion mixed with the intellectualizing, I think).

[SpiritRunner]

MKAC, that is an awesome, beautiful story. A great way to deal with the horse's very real fears and trust issues, and a great, compassionate way to deal with your friend. You sound like a good, good friend.
I wish my friend could understand it in that light too. My distance is some respects is just me/my personality, but it is also a wariness/suspicion/skepticism that is part of the pattern created because of my emotionally unsafe childhood ...... the desire for connection conflicts with the desire for safety remembering that connection has at times been unsafe.
Intellectually, I know that this friend, and others, are safe .... and yet the protective mechanism is there and is a part of me, is me.

SR, do you think you would be comfortable explaining to your friend what happens to you emotionally? If you think it would help, feel free to use my horse story.

[SpiritRunner]

I have tried explaining, via email, a few things about my distance/why. I pretty much wanted to reassure her it wasn't really her or anything she had done and it wasn't that our friendship to be a further-apart kind of friendship ..... but that it seemed to be my habit to presume people would want or need distance from me, too, and also that I was nervous about vulnerability/exposure, because there was a ton of stuff she went through with me last summer, and I guess I just thought she wanted to be more careful too about how close she let me be to her, so I wouldn't be putting a burden on her. But that was me making an assumption, probably just because I was actually needing the space myself too and was also being prepared for abandonment, I guess.
Maybe it would help to explain it using the horse story, maybe that would put things in a clearer context.
Anyway, she hasn't responded to my last email, so I'll just let it be for a few days and see what she does/says, if anything......just can't make assumptions about what she's thinking or will choose to do.....