[CantExplain]

BIL has come into some money and wants to take W on a pilgrimage to Roswell. So I've insisted that however much W spends on that, I get to spend an equal amount on extra T visits.

Is that fair?

[SoupDragon]

Hmmm, "fairness" is an enormous thing, I don't think there are any hard and fast rules, comes down to negotation and finding a resolution that all parties are comfortable with I think.

but it isnt your money being spent for the pilgrimage is it?

[WikidPissah]

hmmm...why Roswell? Is she part alien? kidding.

Fair is what your wife agrees to.

[kiki86]

no i don't think that's fair. i think it's manipulative. sorry. i'm sure you don't' see it that way but a marriage is not quid pro quo like that, or at least i don't think it should be. unless you're rolling in money i don't see the sense in spending double the money just because your wife wants to do something for herself.

[critterlady]

I don't understand the rationale for that. Is BIL giving you money and encouraging W to spend part of it on Roswell and you want to spend the rest on therapy? Or is the trip paid by BIL and you want to spend other money on T? Either way, I really don't see the connection.

Isn't it BIL's money to spend as he wishes? What does his money have to do with your therapy? I'm missing something here I guess. Are you jealous you aren't invited on the alien encounter or something? Oh, you are saying your wife will spend money of her own/your own while on this trip beyond what her brother will pay for. (I'm slow and not awake yet. Sorry.) Why the tit for tat? Is it not okay for your wife to go off and have a bit of fun on her own without her "owing" you something?

[ListenMoreTalkLess]

IME of 15 years of marriage, the occasions when we have negotiated in a bean-counting ways have been the least satisfying compromises we have made.

I'm not sure why you don't want your wife to go on a trip with her brother. I have always encouraged my wife to spend time with her family when I can't, and I have encouraged her to take trips with friends when she wants to and when we have the funds to support that.

You sound pissy about her taking the trip. It sounds like you're saying, if you do this, then I will spend MORE time with my female T that I have great intimacy with. Is that because you feel there is something that you need that you're not getting in your marriage? Is that why the desire to spend more time with your T is your response?

It might be better if you can identify why more sessions with T is what you WANT. Because I think that for me, T sessions should be about NEED, not want. That's not to say that you can't work on some things in therapy. But by the negotiating posture you have taken, you are implying that these T sessions, at least, would be a luxury in the same kind of way that her trip would be a luxury. That just seems kind of an unusual way to think about therapy.

[BashfulBear]

I'm afraid I agree with the other responses and their rationale.. no, I don't see it as 'fair' at all!

I guess I'm questioning the same thing? Isn't BIL paying for the trip? I guess your W will want/need spending money of her own even if he is paying. I don't know if it's fair.. I mean if it's just a tit for tat type of thing...I understand the thinking behind that you should be able to spend as well. If W is going to go out of budget or dip into savings to do something then you should to? Is that it? Or do you just mean you need extra sessions to deal with W going somewhere with her brother?

[stopdog]

Is there a reason you are unhappy about her taking a trip with her brother?

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by TrinityDancer

but it isnt your money being spent for the pilgrimage is it?

BIL's money takes them to Los Angeles. From there to Roswell and back to LA, W has to pay for herself.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Is there a reason you are unhappy about her taking a trip with her brother?

I'm jealous.

[kiki86]

well if you recognise that you are jealous don't you at least realise that is unfair. your wife is entitled to do something without "owing" you anything isn't she? why do you resent her having something for herself without you getting something. that's what children do. "why does timmy get sweets and i don't! it's not faaaaair"

i know these seem like harsh words but i think you are being unfair to your w.

[BashfulBear]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I'm jealous.

I'm not sure it necessarily matters, but; are you jealous you're not going too, or jealous that she's going and spending time with him and not you?

[WikidPissah]

You have this ongoing competitive thing with the BIL. Would you feel better if she went with someone else, or do you want to go too? Can you go too?

[unaluna]

I thought W wasn't that mobile. Aren't you afraid she'll throw a clot on the plane? If she has to buy two seats anyway, why can't you have the other one? I think the heat here is getting to me. How can she go to Roswell without you? Isn't that like going to Niagara Falls with your brother? It's like a nerdtopian honeymoon. But what do I know. Even before we stopped talking, my brother never called me. And THAT sentence makes no sense at all, heat or no heat, but it's accurate

Well, while they're off on their trip, why don't you do something cool for yourself? I wouldn't worry about matching the trip dollar for dollar, but just find something to do that will make you feel like it's evened out a little bit. Is there anything you like to do but your wife doesn't, so you rarely get to do it? IDK - I'd be glad the wife was having a nice trip, but I wouldn't want to just sit at home and mope and let those "unfair" feelings churn around.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by kiki86

no i don't think that's fair. i think it's manipulative. sorry. i'm sure you don't' see it that way but a marriage is not quid pro quo like that, or at least i don't think it should be. unless you're rolling in money i don't see the sense in spending double the money just because your wife wants to do something for herself.

It's not manipulative because there is no deceit.
I am angry that you you calling me names.
I am sad that you feel unable to offer me any support.

[kiki86]

i didn't call you any names. i'm sorry you don't like what i have to say, but i don't agree with how you are treating your wife. you asked if people thought it was fair and i said no and explained why.

i'm sorry you feel under attack, that was not my intent. so i will refrain from responding any more to this post and i hope you figure things out. good luck

Originally Posted by CantExplain

BIL has come into some money and wants to take W on a pilgrimage to Roswell. So I've insisted that however much W spends on that, I get to spend an equal amount on extra T visits.

Is that fair?

CE, if extra therapy visits are something you NEED which will be productive for you, you should spend the money on them regardless of whether or not your wife goes to Roswell. If, however, you don't need those extra visits, I just do not see how one equates to the other.

As someone else said, marriage is not a quid pro quo. In the years when I was competing with my horses, my husband did not insist on spending an equal amount of money on his hobbies to what I spent on horse activities (thank God!). In years when I did not, or do not compete, like the first five or six years of our marriage or the last two, I spend very little on the horses or horse activities, but I do not think just because my husband continues to pursue his own activities, that I somehow get to spend more money on other stuff to try to make it equal.

As to the jealousy issue, my husband has commented on several occasions that he does not have IMAGINE what it would be like for me to have an affair. My horse took up so much of my time and attention that he already KNEW what it was to have a rival for my attention and affection. He said if I wasn't with the horse, I was talking about the horse or thinking about the horse. So, not sure that I am the best person to comment on this one. But, my husband dealt with it by developing his own interests. He had to learn and accept that I don't belong to him and he doesn't get to stop me from having my own interests, my own friends and my own trips.

Your original post asked for opinions, but your later posts here and on the couch talk about wanting support. I support you in that I feel for you and know that what you're feeling isn't comfortable, and I wish you felt better. But, my opinion is that you're not being fair to your wife here.

[SallyBrown]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

It's not manipulative because there is no deceit.
I am angry that you you calling me names.
I am sad that you feel unable to offer me any support.

CE, I think that if you want support, you kind of need to ask for support. You asked if this proposal you have was fair -- you didn't ask for support for the jealousy you are experiencing.

Manipulation doesn't require deceit. It just means trying to get someone to do something by doing something else. You seem to be trying to get your wife to feel as jealous as you do by saying you'll spend just as much money on your T. This doesn't seem to be about MONEY, as in currency, it seems to be about money as in VALUE. It's like you're saying, "If you value this trip more than my feelings, then I will take the value I have for your feelings and put it elsewhere, too." It's not a fair proposal because what your wife would be spending money on is for her personal enjoyment and does not come with the INTENT of hurting you. You would be spending money with the intent of hurting her back. That's not fair.

This seems like a rough situation, because if I put myself in your shoes, I would not want to tell my H no, you can't go on this trip with your brother, but at the same time, I wouldn't want him to go. However, there has to be a way to let her go and have fun, and find a way to deal with the feelings that you have that are more about you than about her. It might seem impossible, but I think if you focus on the feelings and not on actions that might make you feel better temporarily, you can find a way.

[unaluna]

good explanation of the manipulation / deceit conundrum.