Have you ever crossed your t's boundaries?

She said you are never to tell anyone else what to do or how to act, or how to live their own life... so I said why did you ask me what advice I would give then
I think she just doesn't enjoy her job anymore and gets easily frustrated.. I have noticed her getting annoyed and angry a lot and and not even at me but just little things in general, at the optician, at her computer, at the internet...everything really

Button, if that were me, I would find a new T. How are able to go to sessions and have them be productive if you have to worry about being punished. She says you are never to tell anyone what to do or how to act or how to live their own life, but yet from what you post, seems like she needs to practice what she preaches.

I would be curious about why that was wrong (rather than feeling bad about myself), I would be surprised and ask, "It's not what you have been teaching me? Then what?" It seems an odd question for a T to ask though, to me; I'm not sure I am understanding the context, what response she was trying to get and/or what she meant by "hurt". An older man and a young girl as combatants are very unmatched; it seems unlikely to me that the young girl could get in a position to hurt the man. I'd recommend she tell a trusted adult so he could be caught and make sure I did not get to thinking it was my fault in any way. I would not listen to the man hurting/trying to hurt me, would not believe anything he said to me. I'd find bigger, badder adults to sic on him :-)

But I do not think T's expressing how they feel, whether anger, disappointment, pride, boredom, etc. is about boundaries at all. A boundary is a stated principle that can only be crossed, on purpose. It usually is an unequivocal statement which has a consequence for crossing it attached. "If you tell me you are suicidal, I will have you hospitalized" is not a "threat", it is a boundary of how a T operates their business. "If you email me more than once a week, I will revoke your email privileges" is just their personal rule for doing therapy. It's not about fair/not fair, nice/not nice, it is just the way they do business.

But you cannot cross a person's boundaries before they are stated! If a person does not like something, they cannot know until it "happens" for them not to like! Just because a T has a boundary with you does not mean they have that boundary with all clients and vice versa. Emailing may not be a good idea for your therapy but someone else might do better with it or, at certain stages in therapy this or that boundary may have to be imposed, as issues come up. It's not meant to be a maze or obstacle course, boundaries are used to clear paths and widened/clear roads to make it easier for us.

But that is what makes interaction with T's so interesting/challenging. Boundaries are rules but anger is not about "rules" but about interaction between individuals. Being disrespectful is not so much about crossing boundaries as about being. . .disrespectful!

The way you tell the difference is if it applies to everyone; versus if it is just in this case, with this person, in this situation. If it applies to everyone, it is an interaction/social rule; kind of like having to learn how close to physically stand near people or how long to keep hold of a person's hand when you are shaking it, etc. That takes practice and eventually you learn little cues for the people in your life versus strangers (who get the "average" :-) etc. But a boundary is like a "contract" between two individuals only. "Do/Do not do X or Y will happen" tells another where a boundary is. But it may not exist or be in that location, have that consequence, etc. with someone else.

True, one person might get angry about something and say/imply, "Don't do that" and you may feel it is a boundary but boundary setting usually happens in a calmer, more straightforward way. You probably do not want to step on someone's toes again, if you do once but, there is no reason to feel bad about accidentally stepping on someone's toes! It's not like you meant to or were necessarily careless. If you mean to, if someone draws a line and you then cross it anyway, for whatever reason (testing them, in anger, to hurt them, etc.) that's boundary crossing.

If someone says "Ouch!" when you step on their toes, that does not mean you aren't going to accidentally step on their toes again and they are probably not going to make a "rule" that says, "Don't step on my toes or I will terminate therapy with you" Toe stepping on will come up all the time (and the person will say "Ouch" each time :-) while you learn to dance but boundary crossing should not come up at all. "If you want to learn to dance, you must stay in this room or I cannot teach you anymore" means you can't wander around during lessons, do your own thing while the teacher is trying to teach. If you do, the teacher will not teach you anymore, will ask you to leave the room for good until you are able to abide by that rule.

If a therapist and a client do not have compatible boundary ideas - I suggest finding a new therapist rather than living in fear of the therapist. I, for example, will not use a therapist who has no contact in between appointments, one who will not speak first, one who expects payment for cancelled appointments even with reasonable notice, etc. Those are mine. If they give me theirs, I decide whether I think theirs are reasonable or not and if not, I go elsewhere if negotiation does not work.

Stop dog those are very good healthy boundaries

Thats not about boundaires Perna it was just a resonse to anothers post but I see how you would think it was about boundaries as it under the thread of boundaries!
In relation to why an older man would hurt a younger girl it was about abuse and how I would tell someone else to act, I think she was trying to get me to see why I don't protect myself but I know how to protect others, if you know what I mean?

Tryingtogetby, I have found another one who is much more relaxed and normal and esy to talk to! I have one last session with T1 and I think I will bring up the issue of how she reacts sometimes

Crossing boundaries with my therapists has been the story of my life. I can't count how many T's I've had over the 15+ years I've been in therapy. Well, I can count but I'm just trying to make a point Almost all of my T's have terminated therapy with me because of my inability to respect boundaries.

I am diagnosed Borderline and Dissociative Identity.

My boundary crossings have been:

- Refusal to leave the T's office when the session is over
- Attempting to hug the T from behind without her knowing
- Calling in between sessions just to hear the T's voice (voicemail)
- Calling T's cell phone at midnight, then hanging up
- Researching the T online and getting access to certain personal information
- Sending letters to T or attaching letters or messages to T's building door
- Manipulating with T's office staff to get extra sessions

There are probably more...

So yeah, that's my list. I've never actually written out those things before...maybe it will help me...

When you have refused to leave, how did it end?

Fallenembers,

How did your Ts react to your boundary violations?

Proud of you for being able to write them down! I consider that a really great step forward. Good for you

I used to email T like 30-40 times a week. I didn't violate his boundaries because there was no clear ones to start. BUT I did push his limits with emails, and stomp on his boundaries a bit.

What did he do? Had several calm conversations with me, and came up with different cognitive approaches at changing my behavior. I become super child like for those conversations. If he acted any different it would have been disastrous to our relationship.

How did they know that you did all of these besides the obvious ones like hugging from behind?

I like the sound of your T, very pro active and didn't fly off the handle

Thank you. Sometimes you just don't know what you got.

I can't imagine any T flying off the handle. How can a T help you control your emotions if they can't control there own? I'd start looking for a new T.

I have unintentionally crossed my T's boundaries a few times in the many years I have worked with her. We talked about it calmly and I was able to use it as a wonderful learning experience because I knew my T would not yell or shut down on me like my father did. I think working through it strengthened ou therapeutic relationship.

I am very, very careful with boundaries and my Ts. I make sure to never get within a 100 yard distance of them. I guess I get worried that they'll yell at me or get upset at me or walk away from me.

I have written letters to my team telling them they're being ridiculous. But I'm learning to express anger and I'm kind of confused why your therapist got upset about this, because sometimes the only way you can do it is through writing. I've never pulled out of a program or T like that, but to each his own. It seems his feelings got in the way, and that probably shouldn't happen. My therapists have always encouraged anger out of me, but maybe I'm a different sort of client? I don't know?

I don't think I have. I don't even know what they are. I've never called the office and only sent formal emails, except for one personal/this is what's happening in my life/please help, but I'm okay type of an email a couple of weeks ago. I don't know if that one did or not or what I'm allowed, but I'm going to try calling the voicemail and may email again Monday for an appointment time for the week. I just hope asking for an appointment time 3 times is not too much. I think think I try to please people too much and worry too much about what they'll think to cross a boundary.

I would define my T's boundaries as "flexible". I crossed an email boundary last year and didn't realize it (I over-medicated a bit and emailed a long incoherent email without knowing). She was good about it; she just said that she didn't do counseling by email, but that it was okay and she would talk to me next session. Then about 2 months later, I sent a scathing, angry email. T confronted me the next session, calling the email "manipulative and borderline". She threatened referral. In hindsight, I think that was an overreaction to the email and that she took it personally. She took away email privileges for a month, then reinstated them. I crossed the boundary one more time by obsessing about something, sending 4 emails in 3 days asking for a response (on the weekend), but she handled it a bit better. She actually did respond to the email, but restated that she did not counsel via email.

Anger was a huge issue for me when I began therapy. I denied that I had a problem with anger. She disagreed. She felt that I just never allowed myself to express anger. I felt like it made me a 'bad person'.

She kept pushing my buttons and she finally got the anger started! This is what she wanted. For me to 'get it all out'. Even though I was ugly to her at times, she allowed herself to be somewhat of a 'punching bag' so that I could feel safe to express anger without feeling like it was some terrible thing that only 'bad' people have.

She would tell me to follow the rules, though. (1) I could not physically hurt her (2) I was not to physically hurt myself (3) I wasn't to break or destroy anything that I would later have to suffer guilt for.

It was pretty funny when she kept answering my emails like she did. I would always send her an apology email, but she kept telling me that I had nothing to apologize for. She once said, "Believe it or not, I do not take that personal. Therapy is not about me, its about you."

Maybe that's what my t does, try and make me angry. See I never get angry at anyone only myself but if this is what she is. Trying to do,, she never tells me! She will contradict. Me when I say I am shy, she will say well you weren't very shy the night you went off with so and so! And just last week I confronted her and saidwhen I went home I got mad at her for saying that but then I realised that it was me I was angry with because I was ashamed as that behaviour was out of character for me! She just nodded her head, I was like ok! S don't know what is going on here!

I don't think i've crossed a boundary... i am terrified of doing so. I am soooo not good at being told off for something i've done, even if it's said nicely. Keeping within boundaries is a huge thing for me.

The first time or 2, the T would express their concern about the fact that they had another appt after me or had to leave the office. A few times, the police were called in After a number of times of this same behavior, the T's would tell me that they couldn't work with me anymore and refer me someplace else

The only one that they probably didn't know of was me researching to find information about them. The rest happened usually in their presence.

How did your T respond to this? Was it a one time thing or was it an ongoing behavior? I'm wondering what the "proper" T response would be.

struggling to comprehend this. Why wouldn't you leave when asked?