[minneymouse]

I'm confused and hoping I can draw on the collective wisdom of PC Yesterday in my session I finally- and I mean *finally*!- got angry with my parents. I have always been the first to say 'they did their best'. Yesterday, T took up the 'they did their best' mantra and I shouted back that it wasn't good enough. Which is true- it wasn't. T and I then had this weird semi-argument, where she kept trying to frame things from their point of view, and I just felt more invalidated and hopeless and 'to blame' as it went on. T kept insisting that it was for my own good as she didn't want to see me throw them away altogether.

I sent her this email- I'd love to hear your thoughts on whether you've got angry, and how your T responded. Is she right, and I'm just trying to justify myself? I'm really out of my depth as I never 'do anger. Then I did, and it all went wrong somehow.

"I feel a bit confused about today. I understand about it being important to mentalise my mother, and to see things from her point of view etc., but do I have to do that *right now*? You know what, *she's* the mother. It was *her* job to mentalise *me* and she has consistently failed at that for 30 years. I think it's ok to be angry about that for a little while before rushing to see things from her point of view.

When I first came to you, it was too scary to admit that there was ANYTHING wrong with my family at all. Even considering that possibility felt so threatening that my brain shut down. And all my life, with my mother, it has just been too dangerous to have or express any feelings. Disappointed? Swallow it. Hurt? Hide it. Angry? God that's not even a word in her repertoire (and hence it's not in mine either). Today it felt like you were my mother... and not in a good way!

I agree with you that it's not black and white. I agree that I am feeding into the situation with my mother right now. But I'm not angry about right now. I'm angry for baby me and 8 year old me and 14 year old me. That was my mother. Not me. I will come to see my part in things. I haven't been reticent in owning my part with [ex-partner] (I think your point there is that I over-own). I will salvage some form of 'relationship' with my mother. I'm not doing anything drastic which will cause irreparable damage. I'm not wallowing or making myself unhappy- I'm processing. I'm not needlessly holding onto it in a way which is holding my life back. So could I have your permission to be angry for a little while?

When I read in the schema book 'you have both grief and anger about your emotional deprivation, and you must ensure you experience these fully' (I'm paraphrasing), I thought 'hmm, I'm not angry'. And here we are a few weeks later and I am... angry! I wonder if this feels drawn out to you because *you* were angry with them at the beginning of June. But I wasn't. I was devastated, but not yet angry. I don't plan to stay angry for the sake of it. I'm not enjoying it. It's only that it took so long to happen, that I'm afraid of skipping over it, or of me or you pushing it back down. I think it needs to happen. What do you think? I'm willing to listen to you- you know far more than I do about all this.

There's a Dixie Chicks song I love called "I'm not ready to make nice". I'm just not ready yet T, to make nice with people who have caused me so much harm. I'm ok with that, but I'm not sure you are? "

Wow! What a mature, insightful, articulate, well thought out email! You did a great job expressing your feelings and sticking up for your RIGHT to have those feelings! Good for you.

[minneymouse]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

Wow! What a mature, insightful, articulate, well thought out email! You did a great job expressing your feelings and sticking up for your RIGHT to have those feelings! Good for you.

Thank you, mkac, I so value your opinion. I'm just can't tell for myself whether this is one of those situations where I'm failing to see that T is right because I get defensive when I feel invalidated, or whether actually what I'm doing is necessary and healthy. If she's right that I should try to see it from their point of view, then I'm willing to do it, but I just can't tell

[bamapsych]

I agree with you that u need to be angry and stay with that emotion for a while, but then let it pass. Experience emotions but dont hang on to them. T maybe just needs to be reminded that its hard for you to be angry and that when u get angry that she needs to validate that.

[pbutton]

Ohhhh... this is SO close to where I am at right now. I have no advice to add. I did want to thank you for such a well-written post. You expressed a few things that I've been having trouble forming in my own mind.

[stopdog]

I believe it is possible to do both. One can be angry and understand why someone else does what they are doing.

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by minneymouse

There's a Dixie Chicks song I love called "I'm not ready to make nice". I'm just not ready yet T, to make nice with people who have caused me so much harm. I'm ok with that, but I'm not sure you are? "

Yes I think it is OK to be angry and not be ready to "make nice" (love that song) - your rational mind may be able to get to a place to perspective take as your T suggests, but I think the feeling part of you, the angry part, definitely needs to be heard - I think you are damn right that when you were a child you deserved more and therefore have every right to feel anger as a result.

[Sannah]

minney, I think that you are doing great with this. Keep up the good work!

[minneymouse]

Thanks everyone, it's good to hear what you're thinking. I will print out my email and take it in to discuss with T tomorrow. Stopdog, I suspect that you will win T's prize of the week for finding the 'dialectical synthesis'! Except you're probably not going to be too happy about that

[geez]

I'm in the same boat about anger! Thank you posting this thread! :Hugs:

[Bill3]

T kept insisting that it was for my own good as she didn't want to see me throw them away altogether.

T is being invalidating because she doesn't want to see you throw them away? Throwing them away (or not) is your call, not hers.

If there is a possibility of throwing them away, perhaps T can help you think over the pluses and minuses, rather than attempt to make the decision for you.

[SallyBrown]

Great work, Minney! As MKAC said, this is articulate, and shows a lot of thought and consideration. It's pretty clear you know what you're angry about and why, and I don't see you misplacing your feelings here. You're mad at the way your mom was when you were a child -- and you did NOT have a part in that the way you would as an adult.

It's odd to me that your T would be taking a "see it from her point of view" stance considering that's what you used to do up until now, so I wonder if there were crossed signals somehow... as you say, confusing things between you and your mom now versus when you were a kid, and that maybe your T feels as if the anger already came up for you, because it already came up for her. Don't know, but I think you're approaching this the right way.

You do need to process this anger before you can move forward. It would be one thing if you were just angry or were just refusing outright to see it from the other point of view. But I don't see that at all. Sure, you need to see it from both sides eventually -- but that means seeing it from YOUR side too, and that means standing up for the little kid that didn't get what she deserved.

Keep up the good work!

[sunrise]

I think you wrote a great letter--very articulate, and powerful. I think your T will change her mind after reading your letter.

One time when I had a major breakthrough and finally came to the point when I was able to admit a feeling my T seemed to have been encouraging me to feel, he then reacted like yours. He did not dwell in the "finally" aspect of the feeling and support me in what he had thought I should feel all along. I was left confused, and kind of feeling betrayed. I think back on it as a misstep by him and "not his finest moment", but I know he is still an excellent T and we are a good match. So I haven't let his screw-up influence our relationship. I just chalk it up to no one is perfect, he's human after all. If you can allow your T to make a mistake, I think you will get through this OK. And if your T can allow herself to change her mind after reading your letter, then you'll get over this bump in the road even faster.

[learning1]

Originally Posted by sunrise

I think you wrote a great letter--very articulate, and powerful. I think your T will change her mind after reading your letter.

One time when I had a major breakthrough and finally came to the point when I was able to admit a feeling my T seemed to have been encouraging me to feel, he then reacted like yours. He did not dwell in the "finally" aspect of the feeling and support me in what he had thought I should feel all along. I was left confused, and kind of feeling betrayed. I think back on it as a misstep by him and "not his finest moment", but I know he is still an excellent T and we are a good match. So I haven't let his screw-up influence our relationship. I just chalk it up to no one is perfect, he's human after all. If you can allow your T to make a mistake, I think you will get through this OK. And if your T can allow herself to change her mind after reading your letter, then you'll get over this bump in the road even faster.

Just curious Sunrise, did your t ever acknowledge the mistake? (If you want to answer.)

[Silent_tsol]

I'm not sure if I'm reading this wrong as it seems to be different from how everyone else heard it. And maybe because t and I have has a similar discussion. As in, I have a tendency to not be able to disagree or say someone is wrong and I never sound very firm I my resolve. So I had to say no where she argued (my) yes.

Could your t have been paying devils advocate? As in she didn't actually want to show you that you were being too hard on them, busy wanted you to great what that aside -the side that you usually take- sounds like. Maybe by disagreeing with you she was hoping to draw out the anger.

I'm not sure, I also don't do anger so its kind of unknown territory to me.

My T responded in a similar way to something where I was feeling anger, but it didn't seem like he wasn't validating my feelings. And I know for sure that he's all about getting me to express my emotions. IDK - maybe it's some kind of balancing thing that they teach in T school But I WAS mad at my parent and at that point I really didn't care if they had reasons for doing what they did, and I was in no mood for any kind of forgiveness. I realize that that's what we need to do ultimately - make peace with what happened so we can live with it, and move on. But I think we need to fully acknowledge and express our anger FIRST, especially if we've been holding it back for a long time.

Is it possible your T validated your anger at first, but then when she moved toward talking about your Mom's POV it really set you off? I've found that when I'm really showing anger in the therapy room, I just can't help dump some of it on T. After all, he's right there in front of me and whoever I'm angry at it isn't. Or maybe I'm just angry at the whole world, and he's an easy target. IDK.

But I think you're doing great! I hope you have a good discussion with
T over this, and feel more validated afterward. Good luck!

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by learning1

Just curious Sunrise, did your t ever acknowledge the mistake? (If you want to answer.)

No, he doesn't know he made that mistake. (We never talked about it.) My T has acknowledged other screw-ups, though.

[Perna]

I do not think talking about "balance" can be about right/wrong or other negative dichotomies. You are never wrong for feeling what you feel. Feelings just are. You are never wrong for expressing how you feel. Likewise, T is not good/bad (another of those negative dichotomies :-) for working to help you not "throw out the mother with the bath water" :-)

Your parents were not just "did the best they could" nor were they "their best never good enough". You are learning to stand up in a boat without upsetting it and that takes some practice! What I do to help myself when I am in the predicament of being one way or the other in my perception and/or it is at odds with another I'm talking with is to back off and look at the whole or to remember that I am looking at a whole when looking at an individual piece might be better.

In what discreet experience you and they had together were they not good enough? Look at that instance you are thinking of rather than "all" of your childhood/upbringing? It might be possible to get a different perspective of an actual situation where it is not possible to for a "whole" childhood? Pull out an example that will "prove" your case with your T and discuss that example and you can learn more than just feeling bad alone that their best was good enough or not for you and wishing T were "on your side". Help your T get on the same page as you are currently on rather than lament she is on another at the moment. When I have not been able to do that, I sigh and try to go over to whatever page my T is on :-) and think how much I'm learning about other people's perspectives and adjusting to being in harness with others. T has been doing what T has been doing with clients for a long time and what I have been doing with myself and others, I don't think works (why I see T) so, it behooves me to at least try to do things T's way, even if it doesn't "feel" right to me; technically I could be the problem

What would you have done in your parent(s) case in that specific situation, being them instead of yourself? What other things did they have going on that you could not comprehend because you were not old/experienced enough in life, etc. and how can understanding their point of view help you now? It is very hard work being who you are now and remembering/being who you were then and trying to adjust back and forth to what you remember/feel/know about about your parents and being an adult in both situations too.

Think about your title of this thread? Neither of the choices (being angry or seeing "it" from their point of view) does anything for you? Anger is just a feeling telling you something needs to be done, something has been taken from you you want and you have to figure out how to get it back or adjust to doing without, figure out if it is/was yours or is/was taken, etc. And, seeing things from another's point of view is all well and good. . .for them, but how about you? How can it be made to help you. There's "action"/work that needs to be done beyond either of these choices.