[CantExplain]

I want to ask my T this question.

Judging from what others have posted, the answer is, "So long, sucker!"

Well, I still want to hear her say it.

CE why don't you worry about that if you get there? It's like your looking for a reason to argue with your T. (gentle teasing)

[anilam]

Yeah, even if my T offered free sessions I woudn't be able to take them.
So let's hope we won't get to that- I wouldn't stress over it unless it's stg you actually need to deal with right now. It belongs to the what ifs I get sick/won't graduate/can't find a job/loose my flat/become homeless? ... I got many of those- not helpful so I try not to think about them much.

[Syra]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I want to ask my T this question.

Judging from what others have posted, the answer is, "So long, sucker!"

Well, I still want to hear her say it.

I wonder what is behind this question. Is it a lack of trust of her? a feeling of lack of engagement by her? A feeling you are a meal ticket for her? A feeling that she is hypocritical and you want her to own it? Is it a realization that you will lack the money in the very near future and don't know what will happen?

I imagine whatever is behind wanting to ask this question has a very legitimate
basis, and is a trailhead for yet another journey (sometimes I hate those trailheads even if they are good signposts)

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by LolaCabanna

CE why don't you worry about that if you get there? It's like your looking for a reason to argue with your T. (gentle teasing)

I am locked in a power struggle with T at the moment. My usual strategy when faced with someone whose ego is as big as my own is to walk away. That what I did with Bad Facilitator.

But he was a prat. T is not a prat. I think. I hope. I would feel really bad if it turned out that I had formed an extreme attachment to a prat.

I guess I'm looking for evidence that T is not a prat.

[critterlady]

Ultimately, it's a business relationship. I would never expect to work without compensation, so I think it would be unfair of me to expect someone else, even my T, to do so.

If you want to hear her say it, ask her outright. Speculating how she might answer doesn't help you.

[likelife]

It's such a weighted question, isn't it? I'd be too tempted to read into the answer one way or the other.

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I am locked in a power struggle with T at the moment. My usual strategy when faced with someone whose ego is as big as my own is to walk away. That what I did with Bad Facilitator.

But he was a prat. T is not a prat. I think. I hope. I would feel really bad if it turned out that I had formed an extreme attachment to a prat.

I guess I'm looking for evidence that T is not a prat.

I know you are in a power struggle... and what is a PRAT?

[LoneWolfie]

I think it is along the lines of someone that is an idiot, but don't quote me on that!lol

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I am

But he was a prat. T is not a prat. I think. I hope. I would feel really bad if it turned out that I had formed an extreme attachment to a prat.

I guess I'm looking for evidence that T is not a prat.

I get this idea. The one I see has said that I think she is dense or stupid. I don't think she is - I think she acts that way for a specific purpose. I think she is conniving and wily. I can't bear the idea I picked a stupid one

Originally Posted by LolaCabanna

I know you are in a power struggle... and what is a PRAT?

The therapist is engaging in the power struggle too. If it was CE alone - there would be no struggle.

Originally Posted by stopdog

The therapist is engaging in the power struggle too. If it was CE alone - there would be no struggle.

Are we sure that CE isn't fighting himself and the ability to surrender?

[CantExplain]

"Prat" is an insult indicating disgust and disrespect.

It's literal meaning is the same as "Arse".

[CantExplain]

OK, I see what's going on now.

The real question is, "How much do you love me?"

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by LolaCabanna

Are we sure that CE isn't fighting himself and the ability to surrender?

Only CE can answer that.
But the first one I see gets into struggles with me. The other one does not. They each handle my approach differently. One results in battles and the other does not. I don't mind the battle but I am not going to submit. With the second one - it just never gets there in the first place. So I do think the therapist can have better or worse ways of handling it.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

OK, I see what's going on now.

The real question is, "How much do you love me?"

Is there any way to separate seeing you if money runs out (her business) from loving you? Are sliding scales something that occur in yurtland?

My struggle is not over being loved.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

OK, I see what's going on now.

The real question is, "How much do you love me?"

And the answer is, neither of us loves the other as much as my fantasy requires.

And the appropriate response to that is to grieve and let go of the fantasy.

You know, you guys are sometimes a lot more help than my therapist. And you're free!

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I am locked in a power struggle with T at the moment. My usual strategy when faced with someone whose ego is as big as my own is to walk away. That what I did with Bad Facilitator.

But he was a prat. T is not a prat. I think. I hope. I would feel really bad if it turned out that I had formed an extreme attachment to a prat.

I guess I'm looking for evidence that T is not a prat.

CE, just my opinion, but don't see how the stuff you have posted about your T means that she has a big ego. She appears to have a way in which she is doing therapy with you that she feels is in your long term best interest. You disagree with her and get angry and rail at her, and she (it sounds like) pretty calmly tells you why she is doing what she is doing. Disagreeing with you does not equal big ego, at least in my opinion.

Originally Posted by stopdog

The therapist is engaging in the power struggle too. If it was CE alone - there would be no struggle.

Maybe I'm prejudiced on this matter because I recently got an ethics complaint. I fully and carefully explained to my client (in writing luckily) my legal opinion of how we should handle his appeal, given the facts of the case and the current case law. He disagreed, and I wrote him a second letter, addressing all of his points, and giving him case cites for the legal precedent that controlled in the case. I explained why I could not handle his case the way he wanted. He wrote me AGAIN, and again I responded, explaining that his desired method of handling the case would be futile and would require me to act unethically. He then sent an ethics complaint to the bar administrator and luckily included copies of my letters which he thought "supported" his case against me. The ethics administrator wrote back to the guy explaining that I been both prompt and courteous in responding, had given him accurate legal advice, and stating that his disagreement with my professional judgment did not constitute an ethics violation on my part. There was no power struggle between me and my client, at least on my end. I would just repeatedly explaining to him why, in the exercise of my best legal judgment, I could not do what he wanted.

It appears to me that is what CE's therapist is doing. Repeatedly telling him that, in exercise of her best professional judgment, she will not do what he wants her to do. CE's disagreement with that judgment does not mean the T is on a power trip. If he disagrees strongly enough (which, given the number of times that this same situation repeats itself, it appears he does), then it's past time for him to get a new T, rather than keep trying to get her change her professional judgment in the matter. I rather admire her for sticking to her position. I am sure that it would be much easier for her to simply give in.

[stopdog]

I do think our experiences color how we see it. I don't see CE's therapist acting in the way MKAC describes. I think a therapist can handle things so they don't get to win/lose. I believe this because I have one who does and one who does not.

I see CE as wanting to be special to his T, much like many do, and wanting more love and praise and support then she is willing to give and that makes him angry. So I agree with him, that his expectations of the relationship are not in line with the true possibilities. I think his T is giving him what he NEEDS and not what he WANTS and this is new for him. CE? I get this.

[stopdog]

Perhaps the therapist is giving CE what she thinks he needs. She could, of course, be very very wrong in her belief. I don't think the client never knows what they need. Sometimes, and more often than therapists like to admit, clients actually do know what they need. Whether the therapist is willing to admit it or not is another question. I usually think if the therapist is so correct their way is the only way, then try it the client's way first and let the client see it not work. Just digging in on the part of the therapist does not prove them right.

CE - are you going to tell her about this desire of loved and money?

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

It appears to me that is what CE's therapist is doing. Repeatedly telling him that, in exercise of her best professional judgment, she will not do what he wants her to do.

Is a therapist the same as a lawyer? It is not immediately obvious to me that this is the case. I would be really interested to hear Stopdog's take on that.

If this is purely a professional relationship, then the logical course of action would be to terminate T and find one who is more agreeable. (I'm even talking like Stopdog!) Because T's opinion is not universal among her profession. I have seen articles on the internet stating categorically that a permanent power struggle damages the therapeutic relationship and the therapist is responsible for making sure it doesn't happen.

However, if T is family, I will stick by her no matter what.

That's the question my heart must answer. Is T family? So the title question is supremely relevant.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

OK, I see what's going on now.

The real question is, "How much do you love me?"

I'll buy this.

Oh and so that's where pratfall comes from, makes sense now.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Is a therapist the same as a lawyer? It is not immediately obvious to me that this is the case. I would be really interested to hear Stopdog's take on that.

If this is purely a professional relationship, then the logical course of action would be to terminate T and find one who is more agreeable. (I'm even talking like Stopdog!) Because T's opinion is not universal among her profession. I have seen articles on the internet stating categorically that a permanent power struggle damages the therapeutic relationship and the therapist is responsible for making sure it doesn't happen.

However, if T is family, I will stick by her no matter what.

That's the question my heart must answer. Is T family? So the title question is supremely relevant.

Talking like stopdog? I am flattered although you may be very afraid.
I don't see a therapist as family. I don't think therapists are like lawyers in how they think about their role and approach clients. I think it would be better if they were. I don't see MKAC's example as being like how you describe your therapist (it may be, I just don't see it in that the lawyer gives clear and evidenced based explanations - therapists do not in my experience as they are being manipulative and wily). On the other hand, most people don't care if their lawyer loves them and it does seem to come up frequently with therapists.
Would the therapist caring be enough CE? Even if not love? It would be different, but it is a business type relationship (even if it is a business + type for those of you who bristle at the idea of it being all business) and not one where the therapist gets openly wrapped up in the client's life etc. I think they are supposed to be able to let clients go. Otherwise it seems to me, the situation then becomes about the therapist's emotional needs.

[unaluna]

YOU will stick by HER?? You make it sound like she needs you. In a way, that's true.

She has already backed down about the assessment appointment cancellation, giving you what you want. Now it's lather, rinse, repeat a million times until it replaces our FOO's messages. That's the hard part. But congratulations on getting there. Seriously.

[feralkittymom]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Is a therapist the same as a lawyer? It is not immediately obvious to me that this is the case. I would be really interested to hear Stopdog's take on that.

If this is purely a professional relationship, then the logical course of action would be to terminate T and find one who is more agreeable. (I'm even talking like Stopdog!) Because T's opinion is not universal among her profession. I have seen articles on the internet stating categorically that a permanent power struggle damages the therapeutic relationship and the therapist is responsible for making sure it doesn't happen.

However, if T is family, I will stick by her no matter what.

That's the question my heart must answer. Is T family? So the title question is supremely relevant.

I think there's a difference between an interaction in which both parties are acting in a dysfunctional way, thereby creating a power struggle; and an interaction in which one person chooses to view the interaction as a power struggle simply because the other person maintains a position.

A true power struggle assumes an emotional investment on both sides to meet personal needs, and that would be counter-therapeutic. I don't see your T as engaging in this way.

I think you've accurately defined your disgruntled feelings as fantasy unfulfilled. It repeats itself over and over again in a variety of disguises, but it's the same basic struggle: T can never fill your need.

So the issue becomes: how do you want to address this? Change Ts until the honeymoon phase ends in rupture? Continue to fight and rack up a series of grievances that can never be resolved? Continue to substitute the distraction of ruptures for engagement in the scary work of healing?

What is the final ultimatum?

I think the most important existential challenge we each face with adulthood is the fundamental recognition that we exist alone. That realization can shake us to our core; therapy can be one way to help navigate that realization, if we are willing to let it.