We have discussed on here before how differently we view the concept of support from each other and from our therapists. I found this article very interesting. The blogger uses the word "nice" but I think it applies equally to "supportive." http://feelingupindowntimes.wordpress.com/2012/12/

[elliemay]

Wow! I agree with that! Give me real over nice any day.

[stopdog]

I don't know if I think supportive is a substitute word here. The one I see has told me she is not mean. I don't know if that means she thinks she is nice. I don't really perceive her as nice although I don't particularly desire her to be nice. In many ways, the second one I see is nicer in a sense and she can say things to me without sending me into a rage, get me to do things etc that the first one cannot.

When people talk about their T, or other posters not being "supportive" they seem to equate nice with being supportive. That is just my opinion though.

sometimes the truth can't be given in a nice way.

Originally Posted by LolaCabanna

sometimes the truth can't be given in a nice way.

EXACTLY! I honestly think that telling the other person the truth is much harder, and a much more caring thing to do.

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

EXACTLY! I honestly think that telling the other person the truth is much harder, and a much more caring thing to do.

It doesn't FEEL caring at the time and the recipient may never see it that way or minimally later down the road. No one likes to hear what they don't want to accept.

[stopdog]

Since I am baffled at the whole what a therapist can do that would ever be supportive notion, then perhaps I am missing the point.
I just know that the two I see are both psychodynamic but it feels very different with each one. The one I perceive as "nicer" (I am not really certain that is the right word but using the terms we have going here), I am much more willing to have say harder things that I may consider. The second one has more finesse with me than the first. I am more attached (I guess that would be the word although I am not certain it is correct) to the first one with whom I am constantly locked in struggle to communicate with. The second one I don't quit, I don't take breaks, I don't leave in a frustrated rage every week, and I think about the concepts rather than the lack of communication with her. She is not a pushover and she keeps the talk focussed on the uncomfortable. So I guess I think nice does count in someways. I do hear stuff from her that I would reject from the first one because of how the second one approaches it. Perhaps finesse rather than nice as such. I don't think of the second as nice in a vacuum, just if compared to the first. I do think she is more skilled at working with me. It is not that I find the concepts with the second are comfortable.

[critterlady]

Originally Posted by LolaCabanna

sometimes the truth can't be given in a nice way.

This. In one of the recent threads about an unsupportive T, I mentioned that I consider my T challenging me to be a supportive thing, because he's helping me to see other ways of looking at things or other ways to react to something. I think there are a lot of people who don't see it that way.

Mind you, when T challenges me, he's not saying, "Hey, Critter, that's stupid, you're wrong!" He just calmly helps me see alternatives. So he's both nice and supportive.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

EXACTLY! I honestly think that telling the other person the truth is much harder, and a much more caring thing to do.

Perhaps it is how the truth (and truth is never absolute in my opinion - so I see it as meaning the person speaks the truth they see) is presented. As a club or as something to consider. The skill I think a therapist needs is how to present information that could possibly be useful in a way the client can hear it. Shouting the same thing at the client in greek over and over won't help if the client only speaks English. The therapist needs to find other ways of communicating with the client.

[rainbow8]

Thanks for the article, MKAC. I found it as well as your comments interesting. My T has always been nice, and she still is, but she's being stricter with me, which is not as "nice", but probably what I need. I think a T can be "nice" and real at the same time.

I have a problem with "telling people the truth", though. What is the truth? How does anyone who posts here, including myself, know what the "truth" is for someone else? We can give our opinion, but that doesn't mean it's the "truth". I think we can be supportive and still tell the "truth" as we see it, but not make another person feel like we have all the answers, especially when most of us our searching for our own answers!

[stopdog]

I also think nice and truth and support are fairly person specific ideas - relative concepts. Grey rather than black and white absolutes.

[likelife]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Perhaps it is how the truth (and truth is never absolute in my opinion - so I see it as meaning the person speaks the truth they see) is presented. As a club or as something to consider. The skill I think a therapist needs is how to present information that could possibly be useful in a way the client can hear it. Shouting the same thing at the client in greek over and over won't help if the client only speaks English. The therapist needs to find other ways of communicating with the client.

Absolutely agree. And I'd add that timing is important when it comes to discussing the "truth." Of course, putting the T in the position of determining "optimal" timing is a tricky matter.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by likelife

Absolutely agree. And I'd add that timing is important when it comes to discussing the "truth." Of course, putting the T in the position of determining "optimal" timing is a tricky matter.

I think it is what they signed on for.

[pbutton]

I would much rather be challenged than blindly coddled. Fortunately for me, I have a T who is amazingly skilled at being "nice" and giving me the gentle pushing that helps me grow.

[stopdog]

I guess I am saying that it does not have to be a choice between bludgeoned, railroaded or trapped versus blindly coddled. A major skill of therapists, I think, is how to communicate even difficult material so the client can consider it. I think it should be the material that is difficult, not the way the therapist is about the material.

[sunrise]

My T is very nice to me. I really like it. His being nice doesn't stand in the way of my progress in therapy--just the opposite. I came from 2 plus decades of a marriage in which my husband was not very "nice" to me. I think I equate "nice" with respectful. My T isn't rude to me. He listens to what I say. He doesn't interrupt. He looks me in the eye. He doesn't dismiss my ideas without considering them or before he's even heard them. He doesn't insult me or say hurtful things. He doesn't ignore me. He doesn't walk all over me. He respects my boundaries. All these things add up to "nice" to me. In the context of my marriage-that-didn't-work, it's been very healing to have a male therapist who is nice to me. So in that sense, I guess his being nice is therapeutic. If he replicated the rude actions of my husband, that would not be supportive, helpful, or therapeutic.

[~EnlightenMe~]

I also think nice and truth and support are fairly person specific ideas - relative concepts. Grey rather than black and white absolutes.

I totally agree with this. I want my therapist to know me, to know my strengths and weaknesses, and to help me help myself move forward. Some days therapy is a relief, and some days it brings up old stuff, anger, and all situations in between. I can't really ascribe one adjective that could encompass what I need in a therapist.

As far as support goes here, I think that is individualized also. To me, sometimes it isn't that I don't want to hear what is being said, more like I don't want to feel it. Sometimes it is necessary to feel it, and sometimes it can be detrimental and cause more defenses to be erected, etc. I think sometimes it isn't an unwillingness to hear what is said, but maybe it is that the poster isn't ready for what is being said, or what is being said doesn't describe what the person is experiencing. We all own our own truths, and they can be different than each other but still remain truths.

I tend to think that how people respond to other people can be a function of how the person's inner self-states/parts interact with each other. I think MKAC, you say this?, but when someone is saying something that doesn't sit right, it is often a time to focus inward.

Just my two cents.

Thanks for sharing this article.

[likelife]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I think it is what they signed on for.

Yes, true. I'm just not sure that they should always be the arbiter of when is the "right" time.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by LolaCabanna

It doesn't FEEL caring at the time and the recipient may never see it that way or minimally later down the road. No one likes to hear what they don't want to accept.

I admire your flexibility!
You seem to be arguing both sides of the case!

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Since I am baffled at the whole what a therapist can do that would ever be supportive notion, then perhaps I am missing the point.
I just know that the two I see are both psychodynamic but it feels very different with each one. The one I perceive as "nicer" (I am not really certain that is the right word but using the terms we have going here), I am much more willing to have say harder things that I may consider. The second one has more finesse with me than the first. I am more attached (I guess that would be the word although I am not certain it is correct) to the first one with whom I am constantly locked in struggle to communicate with. The second one I don't quit, I don't take breaks, I don't leave in a frustrated rage every week, and I think about the concepts rather than the lack of communication with her. She is not a pushover and she keeps the talk focussed on the uncomfortable. So I guess I think nice does count in someways. I do hear stuff from her that I would reject from the first one because of how the second one approaches it. Perhaps finesse rather than nice as such. I don't think of the second as nice in a vacuum, just if compared to the first. I do think she is more skilled at working with me. It is not that I find the concepts with the second are comfortable.

Your comments here are very relevant to my own difficulties.
The greater the attachment, the greater the clash.
Maybe I am over attached.
Maybe I need a more detached T.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by sunrise

I think I equate "nice" with respectful. My T isn't rude to me. He listens to what I say. He doesn't interrupt. He looks me in the eye. He doesn't dismiss my ideas without considering them or before he's even heard them. He doesn't insult me or say hurtful things. He doesn't ignore me. He doesn't walk all over me. He respects my boundaries. All these things add up to "nice" to me.

This is consistent with what I think of as "nice." At the same time, my T is all these things but also negotiates conflict with me in "nice" ways. He is straight (so am I) and neither one of us are afraid to disagree nor are we afraid to allow the other person to think about something in a different way or have different factors be important to us. I also have a very nice husband and we disagree about many things, which has worked for us for a long time. I suppose if I defined "nice" as always being in agreement there would be no one in my life who was nice to me.

I just don't get a lot of the up in arms stuff about not being supportive or not being nice. I think there is a whole lot of niceness in telling people what you think, as long as you aren't demeaning them in the process. I sometimes get super un nice PM's from people who portray themselves as nice but hesitate not to make mean insinuations in private.

Thanks for sharing the article.

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I admire your flexibility!
You seem to be arguing both sides of the case!

I've been on both sides.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by pbutton

I would much rather be challenged than blindly coddled. Fortunately for me, I have a T who is amazingly skilled at being "nice" and giving me the gentle pushing that helps me grow.

I think the earlier post about "timing" hits the nail on the head. The therapist must be coddling and challenging by turns. She needs to be sensitive to the mood of the patient.

Blindly challenging is just as bad as blindly coddling.

I would always pick honesty over someone blowing smoke up my rear. However, I don't think anyone posting here has advocated blindly challenging ever.

There is a point about timing, and I have noticed my T will on occasion wait to bring something up until he thinks I'm ready. But he is always trying to help me move forward as quickly as I am able to tolerate and have enough respect for me to not coddle me or assume I am not strong enough to tolerate the work. At one point he told me that he generally estimates six to ten years of therapy to recover from certain traumas I experience. I have made it clear to him that no way in hell am I staying in therapy for six freaking years, and I want him helping me move forward as quickly as possible.

He also has enough respect for me to tell me the truth and challenge me when my behavior is unhealthy or when I am trying to evade something. He will let me back off a subject, but makes it clear that he has noted the evasion and that this is something we need to return to when I am able. When I am engaging in unhealthy behaviors, he tells me and wants to discuss how to address the underlying emotions or thoughts that are causing me to behave in that way. That is what I want from my therapist, my friends and my spouse.