[rainbow8]

I know it's for my own good, but sometimes I get envious of those who get email responses from their Ts. I long for the "good old days" when my T answered me, and sometimes I reread the emails I printed from my first year in therapy. I have her "words" in my heart, but I like to read them too. It was so nice when she emailed back (until I became frustrated), and so nice when I could hold her hand.

I feel like my T abandoned the child parts. She says she hasn't. Growing up the first time is difficult, but growing up in therapy can be even harder! I'm just kind of nostalgic. Like I said, I know it's for my own good so I don't need to go over the reasons again.

[Fuzzybear]

(((((((((((((( rainbow )))))))))))))))

Rainbow I wish things were easier for you right now

[rainbow8]

I AM doing well in therapy. I'm just nostalgic, I think. Thanks for the hugs, though. I always like hugs, Fuzzybear and Button.

I keep all of my emails from t too and read over them. It's nice to see how far I have come but sometimes re reading them sends me back to where I was and retraumatises me when I read what I wrote.
Do you think that this could be a problem for you in real life- I mean not tolerating others, your ts response? Maybe this is something for you to work on rainbow?

rainbow, maybe some of it has to do with how you use email (saying that in a non-critical, just trying to look for explanations kind of way). My T typically does not allow email at all. However, he has said it is okay for me to email him certain things -- a story I wrote, articles that I've read that I need to discuss with him, etc. I have emailed him a total of probably 5-7 times in three years. Every time, he responds within hours (even on weekends) because he knows that every time I email him, it is something that is HUGE for me and immensely difficult for me to share. [As a result, I've never emailed again on a weekend because I don't want to interrupt his free time.] If email is something rare and reserved for things that enormous, the situation might be different, don't you think?

If it makes you feel better, I am certain that if I were just routinely emailing my T just to tell him my thoughts or feelings between sessions, he would shut me down and not allow me to email at all.

[Syra]

I totally get this. I used to email my former T. Nothing requiring long answers. Not daily. I don't think weekly. The connection felt so good - until she abandoned me. NOw sometimes I wish the new T would do email, but I also want to protect myself from what happened before and I'm just confused about what I want and what is good.

NOw if something remarkable happens, I write about it and give the writing to him the beginning of the next session along with other things to "update since the last session." It actually seems somewhere between good enough and MAYBE better cuz it doesn't trigger feeling more connected that is healthy. But I'm not sure what level of connection is healthy so I don't know if it's better or not. I only know the last level of connection didn't sustain itself.

[Anne2.0]

Your feelings about nostalgia seem really normal to me. If I look back at my pre-teen son's development, he has had a sense of nostalgia at pretty much every stage. I recall when he was about 5 or 6, he found a cloth diaper cover I'd saved in the linen closet. "Diaper!" he said with a real sense of fondness, like he had just found an old friend. When he began reading by himself, he made it very clear that learning to read didn't mean that we could stop reading to him. Sometimes he still asks (he's almost 12) for us to read to him.

So I think that your feelings are all part of the growth process-- which is kind of cool if you think about it for an instant-- you get to have the growth and the feelings about it.

[struggling2]

hang in there rainbow....i think we spend so much time in despair for a period of time in therapy that once we start to feel better and make progress the change is scary too. its almost like we feel better and can manage but still want some of that early therapy comfort ya know? it is nostalgic.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by button30

I keep all of my emails from t too and read over them. It's nice to see how far I have come but sometimes re reading them sends me back to where I was and retraumatises me when I read what I wrote.
Do you think that this could be a problem for you in real life- I mean not tolerating others, your ts response? Maybe this is something for you to work on rainbow?

Great insight, button. Yes, it IS a problem in RL. You've seen it on PC; when I don't get the kind of replies I wish for, I become frustrated, disappointed and/or angry. It happens a lot with everyone. My expectations are too high and I don't tolerate what I perceive as rejection. I'm getting better, though. I'm learning that it's not a rejection of me; it just means that other people have different opinions and agendas, and I have to breathe and tell myself I'm okay about it! Wow! It's hard for me to do that but I really AM working on it.

Maybe it would have been therapeutic for my T to respond to emails and for me to learn to tolerate the responses, whatever they were. I wanted to do that, but she thought it better for me (maybe for her too) not to respond at all.

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

rainbow, maybe some of it has to do with how you use email (saying that in a non-critical, just trying to look for explanations kind of way). My T typically does not allow email at all. However, he has said it is okay for me to email him certain things -- a story I wrote, articles that I've read that I need to discuss with him, etc. I have emailed him a total of probably 5-7 times in three years. Every time, he responds within hours (even on weekends) because he knows that every time I email him, it is something that is HUGE for me and immensely difficult for me to share. [As a result, I've never emailed again on a weekend because I don't want to interrupt his free time.] If email is something rare and reserved for things that enormous, the situation might be different, don't you think?

If it makes you feel better, I am certain that if I were just routinely emailing my T just to tell him my thoughts or feelings between sessions, he would shut me down and not allow me to email at all.

Yes, it makes perfect sense that your T emails because it's unusual for you to do so, and email is reserved for something huge to you. I know that if my situation were like that, my T would email me back too.

For me, I want to email my T often and this way, I don't feel guilty though I try not to overdo it because she does read everything I send her! I feel relieved when I email her and I don't get upset worrying about what she will respond because she doesn't! This week I emailed her, wondering about her marriage, and other responses to the session. Then, the next day I sent her a poem that had nothing to do with therapy! Hurray! Then, I sent photos of me and my grandchildren because in her words "I LOVE to see your pictures". I usually can imagine her reactions to what I send her, so--it's probably best this way.

Originally Posted by Syra

I totally get this. I used to email my former T. Nothing requiring long answers. Not daily. I don't think weekly. The connection felt so good - until she abandoned me. NOw sometimes I wish the new T would do email, but I also want to protect myself from what happened before and I'm just confused about what I want and what is good.

NOw if something remarkable happens, I write about it and give the writing to him the beginning of the next session along with other things to "update since the last session." It actually seems somewhere between good enough and MAYBE better cuz it doesn't trigger feeling more connected that is healthy. But I'm not sure what level of connection is healthy so I don't know if it's better or not. I only know the last level of connection didn't sustain itself.

Syra, I identify with your confusion over how much connection with a T is healthy for us. Of course it is different for everyone. I need a middle ground. I can't stand it when I don't feel connected to my T. The problem is when it's too much. My T thought holding her hand was about her, not about me, so that stopped. Hugs at the end of the session are fine. Emails are fine as long as I don't expect any response. Sharing photos of my family is fine as long as it makes me feel good. I'm still struggling to find the middle ground because my T is less private than other Ts, and does things differently, like the walks we used to take, for example. Those made me feel too much connection. Anyway, I understand what you mean about the connection.

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

Your feelings about nostalgia seem really normal to me. If I look back at my pre-teen son's development, he has had a sense of nostalgia at pretty much every stage. I recall when he was about 5 or 6, he found a cloth diaper cover I'd saved in the linen closet. "Diaper!" he said with a real sense of fondness, like he had just found an old friend. When he began reading by himself, he made it very clear that learning to read didn't mean that we could stop reading to him. Sometimes he still asks (he's almost 12) for us to read to him.

So I think that your feelings are all part of the growth process-- which is kind of cool if you think about it for an instant-- you get to have the growth and the feelings about it.

Thanks, Anne. Yeah, it is kind of cool. I'm growing up, and this time am able to observe myself doing it. It's always good to read to kids, at any age!

Originally Posted by struggling2

hang in there rainbow....i think we spend so much time in despair for a period of time in therapy that once we start to feel better and make progress the change is scary too. its almost like we feel better and can manage but still want some of that early therapy comfort ya know? it is nostalgic.

Yeah, I know! Those child parts still wish they could jump into my T's lap, and sometimes the baby wants to be a kangeroo and live in her pouch all day. But not as much as I used to want those things. I just worry that those needs didn't get met after all because the first year of T my T used to always say "if holding hands is what that part needs to heal, then that's what we'll do." But she took it away the next year, or year 3. I have to hold my own hand now.

[Willowleaf]

It's tough growing up when you don't feel ready. Good luck with that. Like you say it was hard the first time, not something we ever thought we would have to repeat!
Email contact is so frustrating for me. Like you the answers are never what I want. In the end it is me that doesn't bother with them. She encourages me to use it but I know the answers are never what I want and I get so mad /frustrated/rejected. Sending lots of hugs your way

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Yes, it makes perfect sense that your T emails because it's unusual for you to do so, and email is reserved for something huge to you. I know that if my situation were like that, my T would email me back too.

For me, I want to email my T often and this way, I don't feel guilty though I try not to overdo it because she does read everything I send her! I feel relieved when I email her and I don't get upset worrying about what she will respond because she doesn't! This week I emailed her, wondering about her marriage, and other responses to the session. Then, the next day I sent her a poem that had nothing to do with therapy! Hurray! Then, I sent photos of me and my grandchildren because in her words "I LOVE to see your pictures". I usually can imagine her reactions to what I send her, so--it's probably best this way.

Here's where things get hard for me to understand, rainbow. WHY do you feel like you need to send these things? Why not wait until your therapy time to share photos? Why the "Hurray" about sending her a poem that has nothing to do with therapy? If it has nothing to do with therapy, why send it? Those are the kinds of things that make my T NOT allow clients to email him -- those are more appropriate interactions to have with a friend, not a T. THIS kind of thing is what made my T have a blanket prohibition on emails with clients and was the reason I was in therapy with him for a year and a half before he was okay with me emailing him. And seriously, even though he keeps assuring me now that emailing is fine, when I emailed him one time on a weekend and he emailed back, I made sure I never emailed on a weekend again so that I would not be invading his personal time.

You talk about not being able to 'stand' not being connected to her. But you're not, in reality, connected to her. And you ARE standing it. I'm just perplexed. I know that is nothing new but ...

[pbutton]

This weekend I had a horrible family fight that ended up in material damage/breakage to household items. I emailed T the major points so that we'd have a copy of fresh material to discuss. I now feel needy and clingy for sending that email. Rationally I am 100% positive that he is ok with my email. I realize this is one of my big issues.

It completely baffles me to read that someone would email photos or a poem unrelated to therapy. I'm willing to try to understand why. I'd like to see if it helps me stop feeling needy. I can't wrap my mind around it. I have difficulty sending things that are directly therapy related. I feel as though I should save them for my session, otherwise I am forcing myself upon him when it isn't "my" time.

[tinyrabbit]

But what is therapy related, and what isn't? Maybe something lacks a conscious relationship to what's being discussed in current sessions, but that doesn't mean there's no reason whatsoever.

That said, if you're consistently sending updates that are more suited to a friendship, that does suggest it's time to re-evaluate. One poem? Fine. Lots of random emails? Time to ask yourself why you're doing it.

I email my T sometimes. He either doesn't reply, or replies very briefly, but will read when he has time. I thought it annoyed him, that he must think I was trying to cheat the clock as it were, but he said it's an important outlet and it's fine.

I know someone else on here who PAYS her T for emails. That seems okay, and respectful to me. Just expecting someone to read random thoughts and things unrelated to therapy feels ... disrespectful of the other person to me. THAT is what tends to get me so triggered, Rainbow, and I am not not trying to criticize, I am trying to understand how it does not feel disrespectful or entitled or ... something ... to you to email your T so much in between sessions. I know how excessively uneasy I feel with 5-6 emails over three years is MY stuff, so I am trying to get my head around your situation.

[stopdog]

I think therapists can choose when and what to read or look at just like a client can decide what to send. Just because it is sent, does not mean the therapist has to look at it. Students send me things I don't open, read, look at. It does not hurt me and it may do something good for the student. I look at the therapist and email/mail the same way. Plus, if what the therapists say is even somewhat true, what is useful for one person may or may not be useful to another person in therapy. What is important to one person to show and tell a therapist can vary from person to person too. That it would not be useful to me with my therapist does not make it so for others and vice versa. To each their own in emailing or not is my thinking on it.

[pbutton]

I just read something that reminded me of my issue with email.

Due to overwhelming difficulty in forming relationships, the downward spiral continues in which the trauma-impacted person grows less motivated and less capable to pursue and effectively engage in or maintain meaningful relationships, so, the lonelier, more isolated and less connected he/she becomes.

Conversely, while some withdraw, others might discover they can bully their way into social groups, force themselves into social networks, demand and coerce others to “relate” to them. The forcing of a desired result ultimately fails and ends in inner emptiness because such relationships are unhealthy and toxic in nature

(From Why Trauma Victims Have Trouble Building Relationships)

I am definitely an isolator. I grew up with someone who demanded I relate to her, thus I swing completely in the other direction. It is extremely important to me to try to never force myself upon anyone. (Note: I am not saying rainbow is doing this. This is about my reaction to this thread & why I find it triggering. I thought it may help others.)

stopdog, I have seen you struggling to understand the way some of us do therapy because it seems foreign to you, and why we do what we do in therapy. That's all I'm trying to do here, really. I'm struggling to get some insight and see things differently.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

stopdog, I have seen you struggling to understand the way some of us do therapy because it seems foreign to you, and why we do what we do in therapy. That's all I'm trying to do here, really. I'm struggling to get some insight and see things differently.

I was not intending to criticize anyone on their position about when and how and why they contact the therapist they see. Just giving how I see emailing things to a therapist. I completely struggle with how and why therapy is done by me and everyone else. Hourly if not minute by minute.
I don't personally see how emailing stuff to a therapist is disrespectful because a therapist can choose to look at it or not. I look upon it as a non-event for a therapist. I was trying to give reasons for my belief on the subject of emailing or contacting a therapist. Even my suggestion about not contacting them while impaired is not due to it's effect upon the therapist, but rather because of the remorse, self-recrimination, embarrassment and so forth for the client. I think therapists can take care of themselves.

[unaluna]

Ooh pbutton! Thanks, I am definitely gonna read that article. I cringe when I remember some times when I have tried to bully my way into fairly intimate relationships! I mean a long time ago, not recently. I know am not over it, I know I do it here. I was just thinking this morning - I wish you guys could have known me before I became a comedian. I was about 35. This is something I have to think about.

Fwiw, I understand what mkac is saying. I was thinking that what "cured" me of out of session contact was t sending me msgs intended for his gf in response. Smartphone plus dumb t equals disaster! Plus it was a phase I went thru. We "spent" Xmas 2011 "together" ie with some phone contact, but by 2012 I was good on my own. Earlier years he would encourage me to contact him more. I finally did, and now I don't. Your classic bell curve. I think the point is for contact to be driven by the reality of the situation, not by some arbitrary rules.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

Here's where things get hard for me to understand, rainbow. WHY do you feel like you need to send these things? Why not wait until your therapy time to share photos? Why the "Hurray" about sending her a poem that has nothing to do with therapy? If it has nothing to do with therapy, why send it? Those are the kinds of things that make my T NOT allow clients to email him -- those are more appropriate interactions to have with a friend, not a T. THIS kind of thing is what made my T have a blanket prohibition on emails with clients and was the reason I was in therapy with him for a year and a half before he was okay with me emailing him. And seriously, even though he keeps assuring me now that emailing is fine, when I emailed him one time on a weekend and he emailed back, I made sure I never emailed on a weekend again so that I would not be invading his personal time.

You talk about not being able to 'stand' not being connected to her. But you're not, in reality, connected to her. And you ARE standing it. I'm just perplexed. I know that is nothing new but ...

I'll try to answer honestly, MKAC. I appreciate your feedback and curiousity. I have to explain more about the poem. I wrote it, and usually my poems have been about feelings for my T. Except for family birthdays and anniversaries, I haven't felt like I could write a "normal" poem in a long time. So, I felt really good about it and wanted my T to read it. Why couldn't I wait until my session? I could, but I don't think it's hurting me NOT to wait. I was excited about her reading it. If she tells me not to send her my poems anymore, I'll stop doing it. As far as the photos, I don't have a camera on my phone, and my photos are stored on my computer. Again, my T has encouraged me to send them to her.

I don't know what you mean that I'm not connected to my T. I am. Don't you feel connected to your T? Is that the wrong word to use? I know she and I aren't friends, but as my T, she is working very hard at encouraging me to develop my creative talents. More and more, I am glad she's my T. If sending her emails interferes with that, I know she'll bring it up. It's her responding that caused problems for me, not my emailing. I usually try to limit it more, like 2 emails/week if I can. I don't send photos of my artwork. Those I bring with me to the session so we can discuss them.

Maybe I should say something about my T. She sees clients for 60 minutes, not 45 or 50. She sees some, like me, for 90 minutes. That's her choice. She only works 3 days a week, but she works HARD. She doesn't always have someone before or after me, but when she does, she doesn't have a break. Now I forgot why this is relevant! I guess because she chooses to read my emails just like she chooses not to see clients for the 50 minute hour but for the full hour. I'm not saying that's in her best interests, but it's what she does. I'm not trying to argue or defend her or myself. I'm just trying to explain.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

I know someone else on here who PAYS her T for emails. That seems okay, and respectful to me. Just expecting someone to read random thoughts and things unrelated to therapy feels ... disrespectful of the other person to me. THAT is what tends to get me so triggered, Rainbow, and I am not not trying to criticize, I am trying to understand how it does not feel disrespectful or entitled or ... something ... to you to email your T so much in between sessions. I know how excessively uneasy I feel with 5-6 emails over three years is MY stuff, so I am trying to get my head around your situation.

Does she pay for the emails SHE sends or the ones her T sends to HER? Just curious. Again, I expected people to be mind readers about my poem. I know my T will be pleased that it's not about therapy, so it's not really unrelated. It's very important!! Plus, I feel good about my poem because it's good, and usually I'm my worst critic! I'm like a little kid. I couldn't wait for her to see it! I'm sorry I triggered you. That was the farthest thing from my mind to do, MKAC. If I thought I was being disrespectful, I wouldn't do it. Maybe it is a bit much, but I know my T would tell me if it was. I asked her if I could send photos, and that was her answer: "I always like or love (I don't remember which she used) to see your photos!"

Originally Posted by stopdog

I think therapists can choose when and what to read or look at just like a client can decide what to send. Just because it is sent, does not mean the therapist has to look at it. Students send me things I don't open, read, look at. It does not hurt me and it may do something good for the student. I look at the therapist and email/mail the same way. Plus, if what the therapists say is even somewhat true, what is useful for one person may or may not be useful to another person in therapy. What is important to one person to show and tell a therapist can vary from person to person too. That it would not be useful to me with my therapist does not make it so for others and vice versa. To each their own in emailing or not is my thinking on it.

Thank you, stopdog. I agree with you.

[Syra]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I think therapists can choose when and what to read or look at just like a client can decide what to send. .....

I agree. I also think Ts are perfectly capable of setting their limits as to whether they want emails, invite emails, don't want emails, don't want too many emails, or whatever. They can decide if $x/hour is for 45 minutes, 50 minutes, an hour, or a "x-minute" session plus emails. They can set the rate they charge accordingly.

I feel I really have to trust my T to set their limits. I have enough trouble with my own.

I agree with stopdog, therapists can look after themselves and if they feel a client is abusing email or contact they need to have the boundary talk.
I have to pay my t for a response and usually only email her when I am in trouble but each to their own, different strokes for different folks.

Btw, I think we are going off topic here, Rainbow is feeling nostalgic about her previous emails, something she doesn't do anymore and she feels ok with it-
This again in progress rainbow

I think I understand, rainbow. My T encouraged me to use email so that I could open up to her via writing if not always in words, but it did get to a stage where I was leaning on email too much, and she felt the need to adjust boundaries.. whilst she had never promised to reply, she had found herself feeling she needed to. She has since realised she needs to step back a little. I'm still 'allowed' to email, but responses aren't usually lengthy like they once were. Sometimes I feel I 'need' a response, and it makes me sad if I feel she isn't 'hearing' me or engaging with me, especially if I'm upset to begin with.. but I do recognise why she can't always write back. As well, it's like you say, as we 'grow up' in therapy our needs change, and things progress, and maybe we have to learn to lean on T less... that can be hard sometimes. I also relate to your need to feel connected to T, and email being a way you can feel connected - I'm not sure if that's a 'borderline' thing, but I think it certainly has to do with attachment issues, and clearly some of us have a harder time with this than others - and it's hard to explain to anyone who doesn't feel that same 'need'.. Out of respect for my T I'm currently trying to control myself where emailing is concerned, and reach out less and less - I realise it's a privilege and I'm trying not to kick the arse out of it! At the same time it's tough when you don't really have a support network or that feeling of connection elsewhere, not to reach out to someone who makes you feel good about yourself. I guess part of the therapy 'journey' is learning to internalise that - the warmth and kindness and 'good parent' that is T. If T fulfilled our every need we'd never have to learn, I guess. It is about growing up. Good post, rainbow.