[CantExplain]

Therapists (in my experience) are good at modelling forgiveness, tolerance and boundaries.

But they are not so good at modelling flexibility, initiative and a willingness to change. In fact they are pretty awful at modelling those.

Does this matter? In my view, it matters a great deal.

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Therapists (in my experience) are good at modelling forgiveness, tolerance and boundaries.

But they are not so good at modelling flexibility, initiative and a willingness to change. In fact they are pretty awful at modelling those.

Does this matter? In my view, it matters a great deal.

I agree that they are good at modelling forgiveness, tolerance and boundaries but also flexibility and initiative- simply because they have to use their initiative and be flexible with the way they use it for each client.
Each client is unique and if therapist is a one trick pony and only practises one type pf therapy the client will go else where, so in their line of work they have to be very flexible to meet each clients needs.
Also just because a client is depressed doesn't mean they are going to be like the text book client they learned about in t school they will have to use their initiative to figure out what the client needs and how to work with them best.

[wotchermuggle]

This is so subjective. Some will have had great therapists who this doesn't apply to, and others will have less than ideal therapists who can't live up to any part of your question.

My current therapist is great at everything you listed. Maybe I can't change his mind about some things, but it's always open for discussion. Can't really ask for much better than that.

[Perna]

I saw my therapist twice with 9 years in between and was shocked she changed/grew just like I did :-) Actually she was better at it. We got into the "same" arguments in the second series of seeing her and it was her responses which provided the way out of our painted-into-a-corner-same-responses-as-before conundrum. I realized then that I had been "too close"/limited in my perceptions of the ongoing process and what I wanted/expected.

I decided I wasn't a very good judge/jury of another's processes; if you don't know what a smile is, how to smile, how smiling "works", the modelling by another might look a lot like a grimace?

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Therapists (in my experience) are good at modelling forgiveness, tolerance and boundaries.

But they are not so good at modelling flexibility, initiative and a willingness to change. In fact they are pretty awful at modelling those.

Does this matter? In my view, it matters a great deal.

I think different therapists are good at modeling different things. I think my T is good at displaying all of the qualities you listed, including flexibility and a willingness to change. However, I don't think all clients need those behaviors demonstrated or view their Ts as role models. I think if I were looking for a role model, my T would be a great one. However, I don't feel that is something I need from therapy. I need my T to listen and be supportive, but I don't need her to demonstrate or model certain qualities. I think it's all about what the particular client needs and whether the T they have chosen is able to offer those things.

[stopdog]

I do not need or use the therapist for modeling and that one I see is not good at any of the things listed from my experience with her. If anything, I model them better than she does.

[unaluna]

Interesting question. How does the t model initiative without taking over the client's space for initiative? If the t takes initiative on changing the schedule, they do so for their own needs. That's modeling, but it doesn't address MY need to change the schedule. I have to show my own initiative. It might be polite for a regular person to ask if i want a schedule change, but the t knows it's more important for me to develop my initiative. For me to risk asking.

[feralkittymom]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Therapists (in my experience) are good at modelling forgiveness, tolerance and boundaries.

But they are not so good at modelling flexibility, initiative and a willingness to change. In fact they are pretty awful at modelling those.

Does this matter? In my view, it matters a great deal.

It's interesting to me that the qualities in the first part are conciliatory; but the qualities of the second part are challenging.

Perhaps she was modeling persistence and maintaining her integrity in the face of adversity. Doing what she believed in her best judgment was the best, most professional thing to do, despite the risk of emotional and financial loss.

[stopdog]

CE - how is the new guy going for you? Are you running into the same thing with him?

[rainboots87]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Therapists (in my experience) are good at modelling forgiveness, tolerance and boundaries.

But they are not so good at modelling flexibility, initiative and a willingness to change. In fact they are pretty awful at modelling those.

Does this matter? In my view, it matters a great deal.

I think my two long-term T's were great at modeling flexibility, initiative, and willingness to change as well as the first three qualities you listed. It just depends on the person.

[rainboots87]

I'm also curious about whether this thread is really about therapists as role models or specifically about your perception of your previous therapist and her shortcomings. Just a thought.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by rainboots87

I'm also curious about whether this thread is really about therapists as role models or specifically about your perception of your previous therapist and her shortcomings. Just a thought.

That's what it feels like to me. My image is of you, standing there, pointing a finger at your ex-T, saying "you're not flexible enough! you don't take enough initiative! you're not willing to change!"

And good old fashioned projection might be operating here too. But it seems to me that blaming your therapist for failing to "model" the very traits you may most need to work on is a clever and creative way of failing to take responsibility for not doing the work that you need to do. The fact is that you don't need someone to model how to be flexible in order to be less rigid, you can just be less rigid. Complaining that she didn't show you how is just a smokescreen to avoid making changes. In her own therapy, your therapist is responsible for taking initiative and making changes. In your therapy, those things are your responsibility.

[tinyrabbit]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Therapists (in my experience) are good at modelling forgiveness, tolerance and boundaries.

But they are not so good at modelling flexibility, initiative and a willingness to change. In fact they are pretty awful at modelling those.

Does this matter? In my view, it matters a great deal.

Mine is good at this. He told me this week he feels he can learn from me as I say things he hasn't thought of - and that was in response to my being angry and critical of him. I feel like he is working very hard to adapt to me and what I need.

[stopdog]

I do think there is something useful in there being a paid person, who does not react like a friend or family member to one's frustration and anger at their failings. I see nothing wrong at all about being angry at a therapist. I think it is one of the main points of having one - you can be angry and whatever else -and they don't care. It does not affect them, they don't (if well trained and halfway decent at their job, in my opinion) take it personally.
Some people may need to be angry. It is something useful, I think, to get to be angry and even blame someone without them attacking back. It is very different than in my FOO where letting anyone know you were angry at them was a seriously bad plan. We do not all go to therapy for the same reason and we do not all need or want the same thing from therapy or therapists. And some therapists are evil, some are not good in general and some are not good for a specific person. Sometimes, in my opinion, people go through stages of anger, or blame or whatever. And doing it with or at a therapist seems to me, safer and possibly productive, than in real life. I have students who seem to need to do it = at me, at school, at the way law is and so forth. For some of those students, they seem to need to be there until they don't, and then we move on - when they are ready. For some it is quicker than others, for some they forge a different path for themselves for awhile. It may not be how I would do it, but it is theirs, not mine. Sometimes their stance means they will miss an opportunity or a something else. That is life, in my opinion. Certainly something else could have happened (good or bad or just being) if they had been different - but that is always possible.
I don't find it useful to tell others they are doing therapy (or grieving) incorrectly because therapy is X or it is better to do Y, mostly because I don't find it useful for others to say it to me and I don't believe it is true. I do not think there is a universal correct way to do anything.

[harrietm]

Ex-t was good at modeling tolerance and boundaries, I don't think he ever needed to forgive me for anything. He was also good at modeling flexibility and a willingness to change - he would try anything that I came in with, including handing him index cards on which I wrote the things I wanted him to say in a specific conversation. Initiative, not so much, but that wasn't important to me.

He wasn't so good at modeling honesty or non-defensiveness.

Current t is good at modeling everything I need her to model for me, I haven't found a weakness yet.