Pre-verbal Trauma

I think it more or less helps your therapist understand what kind of enviorment you were growing up in. what type of parents you had.. ext.

depends on the memory also, if it was traumatic as an infant than I would say it could help you to talk about those things.

Thanks again. Every response has been so helpful, I think the biggest thing is knowing that I am not alone in this. Mastodon, I like your example of talking to your T. When I was in therapy, I definitely gave a general overview of some of the abuse and neglect that went on in my childhood home. I never talk specifically about anything, because I do get so tongue tied. I have gotten what you have called "body memories" too...just ICK!! It's a feeling that is indescribable. Maybe someday I will be able to describe it to a t.

I honestly didn't like IFS and/or EMDR, I won't try Somatic stuff because I just put it in the same category. I know some of you use that, and I don't want to offend, it just really isn't for me at all. I don't like "touchy-feely" therapies! (even though I know no one touches you). I prefer to stick with things that are better known to have results.

I don't even blame you for not wanting to do somatic stuff, WP. That is the main kind of therapy my T practices, and most of the time I've totally refused to do it with her! I will do exercises on my own, but talking about body sensations with another person felt way too vulnerable to me. I do IFS on my own, too, and have even facilitated it for other people, but if T starts to ask me questions about my parts she usually gets glared at, lol.

Yea...the whole "parts" thing doesn't fly with me. I have seen too many people on here use "that was my child part" as an excuse to do bad things. Not something I will try.

Thanks!

Well, people who want an excuse will use any excuse. Of course for people with very bad dissociation, sometimes child parts can take over and they don't even remember it (this is part of the diagnostic criteria), so it's more of an explanation than an excuse (although not everyone who claims to have a dissociative disorder actually does!) For the rest of us, thinking in terms of "parts" is just a way of understanding internal conflicts we can have, and shouldn't be an excuse for anything. It's no different than someone saying in casual conversation "part of me wants another slice of cake but part of me thinks I shouldn't."

If every feeling is okay... then logically excuses should be okay too. There are psychological reasons, I think, why we need to excuse ourselves... otherwise we'd walk around accumulating self-hatred.

Not really...you think? I don't sit and talk with the "part" that wants a piece of cake. I just say, no it's not healthy the end. I don't say "well, I had another piece of cake because my child part was having a temper tantrum" lol. Besides, the empirical evidence is not there for it, IFS is a relatively new therapy, started by a cult actually, and the studies that say it works have been sketchy.

All due respect though, if it works for you great. Just not something I want to get into. Thanks Boredporcupine, you're cool to chat with.

Wikid, I'm not going to argue with you that IFS has little research about it so far. But if you have any evidence it was started by a cult, that is something I definitely want to see. As far as I know it was invented by a family systems therapist, who I grant you sounds like a strong personality and may have some odd personal beliefs, but I don't know if that makes him a cult leader... There was also some story about a treatment center (that happened to use IFS) being accused of having a therapist who implanted false memories about cult abuse using hypnosis, but those accusations had nothing to do with IFS as far as I know.

OK, so WP this is not me arguing with you, but just wanting to say more for other people who might be reading...

I have found the model and method of IFS extremely useful for understanding myself and working through various issues.

At the same time, I *do not* think it is for everyone. There are some kinds of people it could be very bad for, and if it's applied by someone unethical or incompetent, it could be very harmful. There are two main risks that I see:

1. "Parts" in IFS are just referring to ego states, schemas, or aspects of a person's personality. If this is not explained well, or it's used with a client with a tendency to drama and imagination, it could encourage people to invent "parts" and act them out, or to use the concept of parts to avoid responsibility for behavior.

2. There is one step in the process of IFS where you ask parts to share memories. It should be explained during the process that there might not be any memories there, or the ones that come up might not be complete or literal. If applied incorrectly, or especially if leading questions are asked, this step could possibly lead to the creation of false memories.

Given those things, I don't view IFS on the whole as any riskier than other common therapies such as psychoanalysis, hypnosis, etc. Obviously some therapies such as CBT have about zero chance of creating false memories, but that is because you hardly even discuss the past.

I think as has been said, if someone wants to use an excuse, they don't need IFS necessarily to do it. My diagnosis [fill in the blank] did it, seems to be a particularly pervasive one in some cases.

But the problem I see with IFS when it comes to 'excuses' (and I suppose this may only happen if conducted inexpertly) is that if someone says their 'child part' did it (this could be expressed in different ways, not necessarily so literally), I would think it would be very difficult to confront a child with displacing responsibility, with not owning their behavior, you know? Whereas, in other modalities, it's always (presumably) an adult sitting across from the therapist, so to confront an adult about displacing responsibility just seems more doable to me. How do you confront a 'child part' with something like this? How do you discourage someone from 'hiding behind' a child part, if this is what is going on?

Ultramar, I think I might make a new thread on this as we seem to have thread-jacked this topic...

I have no problem with thread hijacking. None at all, so please make a new thread to draw more attention to IFS, but don't do it just to please me.



Certain things bother me about it. A lot of things. Mostly from what I've read on PC about it. But I will say that I honestly don't know enough to argue.

I have never brought this up in therapy but can remember certain things from my youth and childhood, I remember you saying you had recurring nightmares Wiki! My t has said these are repressed memories waiting to be examined and worked through. I know you said you don't have a t right now, but maybe this is something for you to talk about when or if you decide to see a t again?
Sometimes it's hard to know whether are memories are real or altered too, it's all very confusing. Sorry I don't know much more about it but just wanted to say that

Thanks Monalisa. That kind of makes sense to me, I'd never thought of that before.

I was thinking about this thread, as I woke up this morning. It's not from my parents that this pre-verbal trauma arrives. But I realized what effect it's had on me.

OK, born with a cleft lip and palate. The lip surgery was at 3 months, but it's the palate surgery at 13 months, that has had me wondering through the years, what type of effect it's had on my life, and *aha*, figured it out.

At 13 months old, I needed to stay in the hospital for close to 2 weeks. My mom and dad were not allowed to pick me up from there and I couldn't really have visitors(this I've been told) because the 'excitement' of seeing my loved ones could undo my stitches.

My grandmother expressed surprise that I even recognized her when they arrived to pick me up.

Here's my *aha*. Fact: I Lost 13 pounds during those two weeks. Mom used to put cereal in my formula, typical of certain families. Government regulations, etc, say not to do such a thing.

Imagine this, all these nurses(and yes, I've had 'nurse issues' throughout my lifetime), feeding me, but here I am losing weight and a hungry, very hungry little 1 year old. So, upon seeing my grandmother, whom I've known, instinctually, had helped my mom feed me(had to be tube down a throat that first year, my poor mom, right?!)...I 'see' a 'food source' in my grandmother.

She, my grandmother, has always talked about how much I ate after that hospital stay. I ate and ate and ate and gained back all that weight I'd lost. How much does a 13month old usually weigh, it was like losing close to half my weight!

When my dad and step'mom', were here, Saturday, all I could think of, is why don't you two take me and the boys out to eat? When are you going to feed us?(she's an RN). ((lack of feeding us, isn't near close to what the issues were, if you've followed any of my other PC postings over this weekend))

I digress.

Pre-verbal traumas, can have lasting effects. I'd hope that most therapists, would at least consider, working on seeing how yesterday factors into today, if you get what I mean about current therapy?!

Thanks for this thread.

I have a very early memory of being in a crib and it was dark in the room but light outside and I crawled out and over garbage bags ( the floor was covered in them) . I remember the layout of the house and I also remember I was all alone. My grandmother confirmed that it was the first house I ever lived in and that the garbage bags were dirty clothes, as apparently my mother would bag up dirty clothes and diapers and leave them in my room. We moved from that house when I was 18 months old. I think this was my first realization I was alone.

I havn´t read the whole thread ( too short a attention span for long threads today). Just want to give you a hug. I always say that I can remember things in my crib to. Quite unpleasant stuff and figured no one would believe me either.

Healed, I am sorry that you went thru that at such a young age. I remember getting my tonsils out at age 4, back then they would keep you in the hospital for several days. My little brother and I had them out at the same time, and I remember watching out for him the whole time I was in the hospital. Thankfully nowadays they know how important it is to let parents stay in the hospital with their children.

((lola)) I don't know what to say, other than I am sorry you were alone so early on.

Littleme...thanks for that. It is comforting that others remember crib stuff too.

Wiki... there is nothing to say honey, it made me who I am and I am ok with that!

My t narrowed down a situation she thinks effected me before age 2. She thinks it makes sense based on her observations over the last 2+years. That was during my last session. I imagine we will explore it further today. It is kind of scary thinking of these things having so much influence. My most clear early memories are from age 5

Yes Bonnie, I feel the same way. I often think "no way that could affect me now" but in some ways it does.