i recently started with a new T. for the first time i mentioned that i am suic and have the plan, arranging things, etc.

i have not really ever mentioned my feelings much in therapy. i got up the nerve to say how i was really feeling.

the response my T gave was "it's ok to do it."

am i wrong to hope to hear something like "you matter" or something like it matters.
clearly the T doesnt give a ****.
but on top of everything, it makes me feel like i dont want to talk about any feelings i have.

[growlycat]

Are you sure your T wan't saying it is ok to feel suicidal? Wow, if T really meant it is ok to go through with it, time for a new T who isn't a sadist.

[Victoria'smom]

Honestly I'd ask her to clarify what she meant next week.

[anilam]

It's OK to do it= its OK to talk about it with her, or even it's OK to plan/think about it?
Even in your post I'd read it that way (without the title I mean). Strange you immediately thought about it saying its OK to go through it.
Honestly, cant really imagine any sane T saying its OK to commit suicide.

Originally Posted by Stringcheese

i recently started with a new T. for the first time i mentioned that i am suic and have the plan, arranging things, etc.

i have not really ever mentioned my feelings much in therapy. i got up the nerve to say how i was really feeling.

the response my T gave was "it's ok to do it."

am i wrong to hope to hear something like "you matter" or something like it matters.
clearly the T doesnt give a ****.
but on top of everything, it makes me feel like i dont want to talk about any feelings i have.

I think it was risky for him to say that but on the other hand, he may have been looking for YOUR reaction to his comment. He wanted to see if his agreeing with you would make you more comfortable in talking about it with him. If it went that way, then his comment will have worked to get you talking and bring you closer to him. Instead, it sounds like it threw you and had the opposite effect. I think T's try different tactics to see what helps them get through to the client. This one did not work with you. I'd go back and see where your sessions go from here. Maybe even tell him you thought it was unusual that he didn't object to your sui thoughts. Often, speaking of sui is a cry for help, for attention, for someone to CARE!! That caring should come from your T. If you don't see any signs of it in the next session or two, find another T.

[tinyrabbit]

Stringcheese, before I write my post I want to say that you do matter. It makes me sad to think that you're feeling like this. I hope you don't go through with your plan. I want to make it very clear that I'm not attacking you, and I don't want to cause you any further pain. Please read the rest of my post with these things in mind.

Originally Posted by Stringcheese

clearly the T doesnt give a ****

Actually, that's not clear at all.

I think Ts are often doomed to get it wrong. The perfect response for one client may be woefully inadequate for another. Even if you think it's obvious what the 'right' answer should be, this may actually be hugely subjective.

I also think it would be a good idea to check in with your T about exactly what s/he said and how s/he said it. I know I sometimes mishear my T's words, tone of voice, etc. I'm not saying I don't believe you, it's just that all kinds of crazy things can happen in the therapy room. I've experienced my T shouting at me, and my ears hurting, when he wasn't actually shouting, for example.

Originally Posted by anilam

Honestly, cant really imagine any sane T saying its OK to commit suicide.

Why not? Saying: "It's not okay, you're not allowed to do this," simply shames the client for having those feelings in the first place and potentially discourages them from bringing those feelings to their T. Forbidding the behaviour won't get rid of the feelings.

The first time I told my T about feeling suicidal, I said: "Don't worry, I'm not actually going to do it." And he said: "But it wouldn't be unreasonable if you did." Now, some people would see that as irresponsible. And, as your reaction to your T shows, some clients might feel aggrieved by that response, and want to hear something else instead.

But my reaction was one of relief. After a lifetime of having my feelings ignored, minimised or ridiculed, someone finally understood. We've discussed it a few times since. He says suicide wouldn't be unreasonable, and it's understandable that I feel like that, but nothing I've told him is insurmountable and he hopes he'll get the chance to show me that.

I think your T was trying to validate your feelings. I very much doubt s/he meant to encourage you to act on them, or that s/he doesn't care. And you have to remember that Ts are not mind readers. If you desperately need to hear them tell you something in particular, maybe you need to let them know. Tell your T: "I'm scared I don't matter to you."

I hope you can work through this. Do come back and tell us how it goes if you would like to.

[Sabra]

Good morning,

You may want to read about paradoxical therapy. I don't know if your T is using this or not. I think it dangerous to use on suicidal clients. It is sometimes called prescribing the symptom.

Sabra

[Perna]

Yes, I would have come back and asked what "it" was. Why were you telling your T, this person you don't know well yet, about your planning, etc.? If you really want to attempt to kill yourself, no one else can stop you, it's wholly up to you. If you were looking for caring, it's a pretty blunt force, precarious, and personally dangerous way to go about doing so and most other people will eventually resist another's attempt at manipulation of their feelings in that way.

No one hates you or knows you well enough to want you to attempt to kill yourself, die, or be dead. If your T was talking about it being okay to attempt to kill yourself, I think he was only acknowledging that there would be nothing he could do to stop you. What other people do is about the other people. For someone who does not know you well to attempt to try and stop you from attempting to kill yourself, that would be about their worries and feelings, not about expressing care for you at this time.

I would stick around and get to know your T, have some deep, serious, soul searching conversations with him, let him get to know you truly and see if the two of you cannot help you feel better about your life.

[ultramar]

I doubt your therapist meant, "it's okay to commit suicide;" in the thick of strong emotions, it can be easy to misinterpret what the therapist is saying. Maybe she/he meant it's okay to feel this way, etc. I'd clarify it with her/him the next time you see them.

Originally Posted by Perna

Why were you telling your T, this person you don't know well yet, about your planning, etc.? If you really want to attempt to kill yourself, no one else can stop you, it's wholly up to you. If you were looking for caring, it's a pretty blunt force, precarious, and personally dangerous way to go about doing so and most other people will eventually resist another's attempt at manipulation of their feelings in that way.

.

why was i telling my T?

because the T asked. T directly asked me about suicide.

i think it is rather rude to assume i was manipulating feelings. i pretty much sit there and answer the T's questions honestly.

manipulation is more like "T i am going to kill myself " and the client never being really serious about going through with it, but using the threat consistently with a T to get a response.

i didn't bring it up.

i didnt say a word about my thoughts until i was asked.

im not looking for caring, but i assumed if a T asked something to me and i make a statement in response, some concern would be shown. otherwise, don't ask, because who cares anyway.
.

.

[tinyrabbit]

The showing of concern is entirely subjective. My T's response was perfect for me, but a similar response made you feel uncared for.

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by Stringcheese

am i wrong to hope to hear something like "you matter" or something like it matters.
clearly the T doesnt give a ****.

Were you hoping for a specific type of response? I ask because clients can sometimes expect therapists to care beyond their professional role.

Originally Posted by Sabra

Good morning,

You may want to read about paradoxical therapy. I don't know if your T is using this or not. I think it dangerous to use on suicidal clients. It is sometimes called prescribing the symptom.

Sabra

Actually paradoxical therapy is not recommended for suicidal or severely depressed clients.
Studies have shown that the clients misinterpret the statements and that is causes more harm (if not direct suicide, responses like dropping out of therapy, worsening of depression, etc.)

So, if that was the intent, this is a red flag.

Personally, I think the T sounds irresponsible. Even if the T was "permitting" suicide, a follow-up comment about his/her concern for the client should be included to cover multiple feeling responses.
Most experts who treat suicidal clients suggest that T show caring and concern for the client and they even recommend not getting into a "suicide is ok" debate.

Here is a good easy to read reference. Dr. Ken Pope is Ivy League trained and past head of the ethics committee of the American Psychological Association.
See #7 and #10 under 10 Steps to Reduce Risk
Assessing & Responding to Suicide Risk

Does "caring" work for everyone... No, but when you know little about a client in the beginning, you stick with the training and established "research."

Example: Established research shows that paradoxical therapy harms most suicidal clients. Thus, T should avoid it without having an established relationship.
.

Well I certainly hope that you DO NOT do it.

If you do, there will be a HOLE in the Universe where you're supposed to be, and ...

THAT would be a very SAD thing.

[1stepatatime]

Hey,String cheese
I don't think a T ( or anyone for that matter) should tell someone it is okay to commit suicide....that is just unethical and irresponsible!! Having said that I hope that you will talk to your T and ask him exactly what he meant by that....perhaps there was some miscommunication.... I don't know. What I DO know is that taking your life is not the answer..there is a light at the end of the tunnel, even if you can't see it at this very moment. If this T doesn't feel right, please find another, right away . Your life is too valuable, even if you don't see it that way right now...and people DO care....I'm one of them

[BobKatt]

Dear Stringcheese,

What an awful experience to have with your T. You had the courage and trust to express your feelings about a very difficult subject to talk about. I applaud you for that. I hope you can continue to express your feelings. This is very important.

Please do go back to your T and ask for clarification. I sincerely hope that T didn't mean to endorse sui. Please assume for now that there was a misunderstanding or miscommunication. I hope you let us know how it goes.

I can see that Perna's comments struck a chord with you. In these forums you have to understand we are quite limited with this style of communication and we all read each other's words through our own life's filter. To me, Perna's comments have everything to do with Perna's life experience and nothing to do with your experience that day in the office with your T. I hope that makes sense.

People do care. Please keep talking.

[tinyrabbit]

If my T said it wasn't okay to commit sui, I'd wonder why he was moralising at me instead of actually helping me work through the feelings.