[rainbow8]

There isn't much to say about my session today. I had something specific to talk about and it seems like that's all I did. T basically told me I have to use radical acceptance. She told me one helpful statement at the end that was probably worth the session. Actually, a few things.

1. Things will change regarding my 1 year old grandson's attachment to the other grandma.
2. My daughter will always be my daughter no matter what. (That almost made me cry).
3. I'm so used to being negative that I think that way all of the time.
4. She doesn't think she's made mistakes with me, just changes.
5. She agreed she could have said the hand-holding and answering emails may not be "forever".

I noticed her hair was wet like she just washed it but I didn't comment about it. I like it that way. I didn't feel very connected to her though at the end she said "we're connected".

What I hate is that feeling like she's "nothing" to me. I said I needed her help before I started talking. I'm always looking for something dramatic in therapy but it hardly ever happens.

I have too much stuff going on in RL. The 90 minutes seemed like about 5.

[sweepy62]

I get what you mean time goes by quicker than you know it but it seems you got some stuff done and I'm happy fouling I'm happy she said she is connected to you I think I will ask my t that question next week hugs

[tinyrabbit]

I hate it when sessions seem to go by in a blink of an eye like that...

[growlycat]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I'm always looking for something dramatic in therapy but it hardly ever happens.

My main T says I'm looking for every session to be "magical"
meaning a deep connection, a big breakthrough, a hallmark moment.

They all can't be fantastic sessions but I understand the wish.

[moonlitsky]

Sounds like part of you is leaving her before she leaves you - if she no longer means anything it feels easier to end perhaps?

[Syra]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

...
4. She doesn't think she's made mistakes with me, just changes.
5. She agreed she could have said the hand-holding and answering emails may not be "forever".

These things seem contradictory to me.

[tinyrabbit]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

4. She doesn't think she's made mistakes with me, just changes.
5. She agreed she could have said the hand-holding and answering emails may not be "forever".

Originally Posted by Syra

These things seem contradictory to me.

That's very black and white thinking, though. A lot of us do this: we think that you're either right or you're wrong. If you could have done it differently, it means you made a mistake, you screwed up, you should feel bad.

I think Rainbow's T has the confidence to say she could have done something differently. You can often do things differently. It doesn't mean you should necessarily be in the doghouse, as it were.

[Syra]

Originally Posted by tinyrabbit

That's very black and white thinking, though. A lot of us do this: we think that you're either right or you're wrong. If you could have done it differently, it means you made a mistake, you screwed up, you should feel bad.

I think Rainbow's T has the confidence to say she could have done something differently. You can often do things differently. It doesn't mean you should necessarily be in the doghouse, as it were.

You thinking I'm black and white thinking sounds pretty black and white thinking to me, but maybe I have misunderstood you? I thought I was questioning whether they were contradictory statements, and it sounds like you are thinking that wondering if they are contradictory is black-and-white thinking. Is that it? I think there might be an explanation that makes them not contradictory. I don't know. I also think they might be contradictory.

It's sounding like you are uncomfortable with me thinking the two might be contradictory. Is that it?

I'm not sure how you know that Rainbow's T is like but maybe there is more of a connection that I know about - entirely possible.

There's a long road between "a mistake" and the doghouse in my world. Maybe your world is different?

[tinyrabbit]

I mean it's black and white thinking to assume they're contradictory.

[Syra]

Originally Posted by tinyrabbit

I mean it's black and white thinking to assume they're contradictory.

That's what I thought you meant. I don't think it's what I said. I thnk you heard it as black and white thinking. And I'm not at all clear how you went from mistake to doghouse. Perhaps I am mistaken

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by sweepy62

I get what you mean time goes by quicker than you know it but it seems you got some stuff done and I'm happy fouling I'm happy she said she is connected to you I think I will ask my t that question next week hugs

Thanks, sweepy. Yes, I always get "some stuff done" in my sessions but sometimes more than other times. I know that's normal.

Originally Posted by tinyrabbit

I hate it when sessions seem to go by in a blink of an eye like that...

I know! I wish I could have a 4 hour session sometimes! At least once.

Originally Posted by growlycat

My main T says I'm looking for every session to be "magical"
meaning a deep connection, a big breakthrough, a hallmark moment.

They all can't be fantastic sessions but I understand the wish.

Yeah, sometimes there is a deep connection or a hallmark moment, at least for me. It's weird that my T thought we were connected but I didn't feel that way.

Originally Posted by moonlitsky

Sounds like part of you is leaving her before she leaves you - if she no longer means anything it feels easier to end perhaps?

That could be true, though I don't want to do that. I want to savor the special connection I have/had with my T. I don't want it to end before it has to. I don't want her to turn into thinking of her like my "accountant" or "lawyer". She's so much more than that. The child parts miss her and wish they didn't have to give her up quite so soon. Though 3 1/2 years isn't so soon. I still want both of us to take care of them. Maybe I will tell her that, and see what she says.

Originally Posted by Syra

These things seem contradictory to me.

My T doesn't think it was a mistake to let me hold her hand, and to reply to my emails, and then change the rules. She said she had to change things as therapy evolved and she saw how I was doing. I told her it would have been better, then, to tell me that maybe those things would be temporary. I think she thought I'd stop by myself. So, she agreed that it would have been better to tell me it wasn't going to be forever, OR that the rules might change at some point. That isn't contradictory, at least not to me. It wasn't really a "mistake", but something that she saw wasn't working for me as therapy progressed. If answering my emails and holding her hand wouldn't have been hindering my progress, she would have let me continue.

Originally Posted by tinyrabbit

That's very black and white thinking, though. A lot of us do this: we think that you're either right or you're wrong. If you could have done it differently, it means you made a mistake, you screwed up, you should feel bad.

I think Rainbow's T has the confidence to say she could have done something differently. You can often do things differently. It doesn't mean you should necessarily be in the doghouse, as it were.

I agree with you, tinyrabbit.

[rainbow8]

I miss what I used to have with my T. I know that means I'm "growing up" but I wish I didn't have to. Our relationship seems more adult, or maybe it's because I had an adult topic to discuss yesterday. The feelings were childlike, but it seems like my T didn't want to "go there". I wish we could have done IFS with the child parts, but instead, she said "radical acceptance" sounded like the best idea, and that I should realize that my relationship with my grandchild will change, just like it has with the other grandchildren. It was all so practical, that I left feeling let down.

I think this is all part of the separation process and I have to realize that I can still feel connected to my T. The question is "how"?

[Syra]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

...My T doesn't think it was a mistake to let me hold her hand, and to reply to my emails, and then change the rules. She said she had to change things as therapy evolved and she saw how I was doing. I told her it would have been better, then, to tell me that maybe those things would be temporary. I think she thought I'd stop by myself. So, she agreed that it would have been better to tell me it wasn't going to be forever, OR that the rules might change at some point. That isn't contradictory, at least not to me. It wasn't really a "mistake", but something that she saw wasn't working for me as therapy progressed. If answering my emails and holding her hand wouldn't have been hindering my progress, she would have let me continue....

I guess it sort of depends on the definition of mistake. It certainly is possible to learn new things and then reassess decisions without any incompetence, or even culpability. I'm glad you understand her. It sounds like she is working hard for you.

[tinyrabbit]

What I'm saying is: Rainbow's T said she could have done something differently. Doesn't mean she did it wrong or made a mistake. Just that she had more than one option.

[JeffPowers]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

There isn't much to say about my session today. I had something specific to talk about and it seems like that's all I did. T basically told me I have to use radical acceptance. She told me one helpful statement at the end that was probably worth the session. Actually, a few things.

1. Things will change regarding my 1 year old grandson's attachment to the other grandma.
2. My daughter will always be my daughter no matter what. (That almost made me cry).
3. I'm so used to being negative that I think that way all of the time.
4. She doesn't think she's made mistakes with me, just changes.
5. She agreed she could have said the hand-holding and answering emails may not be "forever".

I noticed her hair was wet like she just washed it but I didn't comment about it. I like it that way. I didn't feel very connected to her though at the end she said "we're connected".

What I hate is that feeling like she's "nothing" to me. I said I needed her help before I started talking. I'm always looking for something dramatic in therapy but it hardly ever happens.

I have too much stuff going on in RL. The 90 minutes seemed like about 5.

Hi Moon,

Jeff here again.

I finally got what I’ve been asking for all these years, and I hate it. I have tried every way I can think of to get her to tell me whether our making at least an attempt at having a friendship might one day be possible. As of last night’s session she has made it very clear that we will never be friends. Once therapy is finished, we will no longer have any contact with each other. She allowed for the slim possibility that I may contact her if I have the need to, on a professional basis. But we will not be friends in any configuration one might imagine. “You do not belong in my life,” was one statement she made. She gave me a list of life situations for which I have my “work cut out.” The relationships/emotional situations include: my relationships with my wife, with my kids, with my self esteem, particularly in regards to how I will cope with earning money or not earning money, whether or not I will have more friends and how I will choose to deal with them, how to be a friend in general.

The emotional pain of hearing that I will not know her better, will not be in her life and vice versa is profound. She knows me in ways no one else does. She said she knows that hearing this is painful, but my fantasy has been overwhelming. It is an escape (addiction?) from things in my life that do not make me happy. What first comes to mind is, “My old maxim must be true. Once a person gets to know me well, that person will not like me.” I can’t help but blame myself for showing her who I truly am. But then again, she has told me that she does not become friends with ex-clients. I have always thought that I might be the exception. But why would I be? What about me would possibly draw her into a friendship with me? What do I have to offer her as a friend? It seems that she has all that she needs.

She has insisted for years that I am not using our sessions to my best advantage. “Our purposes are at odds with each other. You come here to try to make yourself feel better. I am here to help you do the hard work of therapy so you can feel better in your life outside of therapy.” “The point of therapy is not to wait until it ends so we can then be friends. It’s about making you better at handling your life.” Of course she’s right. But her being right does not make the pain of losing contact with her one day, of knowing that she doesn’t think well enough of me to want to try being friends. It feels like she is soon to be leaving me, although I have no idea when that might be, and leaving me with a huge void in my life.

At one point I said that regardless of what happens to her, whether she moves away from L.A., or even dies before me (oh please don’t let that happen), I will always have a place in my heart for her, but I will forever be angry with her for not letting me into her life. Her response was, “You would rather I die than just choose to not see you again. One seems to be out of my (her) hands; the other is a choice on my (her) part.” That’s like what is said by someone whose spouse divorces him. “I would rather she die than leave me.” Also, “I would rather she leave me for someone else than just leave me because she doesn’t want to be with me any more.” I care as much about her well being as my own, if not more. I would much rather she be happy and healthy than have any outside reason to not befriend me.

Something that really pisses me off is why the **** didn’t she tell me this years ago, when she first realized that I was stuck? I asked her years ago if we might one day be friends. I never got a straight answer. She must have known for a long time that she had no intention of ever being my friend. Why put me through all the years of wishful thinking, angst, and wasted session time when she knew what she told me yesterday?

[rainbow8]

Jeff, I'm not sure if you were writing that for me or Moon, but I can sure relate to almost every word you wrote!! I do know that my T and I can't be friends when I quit, but I was hoping we'd exchange emails. Now I don't know if that will happen or not. When I think about it, it makes me very sad.

I'm sorry your T was not honest with you from the start. I don't think Ts are dishonest on purpose. They don't want to hurt us with what we don't want to hear right away. They think we'll get stronger and more independent as times does on. For some of us, that doesn't happen until we stop seeing them, though.

My T has always told me that her goal is to help me be happier in my real life, and not get that from her. Yet, I have always "forgotten" that statement because she did make me happy. Being in therapy still makes me more happy than unhappy, but the realization that it's "not about her" is very strong now. Maybe that's why therapy is kind of "blah" and I don't feel connected to my T. I agree with you that therapy is an escape and an addiction. It's very painful to have to give it up but at some point, that's what we all have to do.