Dependence

I talked to this friend of mine this morning... She is a psychotherapist in the UK and is currently working on a conference speech about client-therapist dependence.. We talk about that a lot as it is always something I try to understand. (Just my own issues, lol)She says in her private practice she has a lot of clients who feel very dependent on her, sometimes beyond reason, that it causes her doubt from time to time about her abilities because she feels she is not doing her job right to help clients be more independent and self-sufficient. In this forum I sometimes read about healthy dependence or unhealthy dependence too. (And I think I may have stepped on some people's toes when I shared my perspective on it. Not intentionally stepping on anybody's toes by the way, haha)
When do we know what is healthy or unhealthy dependence?
Sometimes I feel it's us, the clients, who justify our dependence as healthy because of what we have been through and often I feel we don't want to hear what our therapist has to say about this.
What do you think? Is dependence something we want, should want..
When is dependence on the therapist too much (is it ever?) and how do we know we're ready to be more independent and rely more on ourselves? Does the therapist tell us, do we know when it is time? What if the therapist tells us they think we're ready but we don't think so?

Good topic, Amelia. We are running out to brunch, so just a quick comment.

My therapist taught me interdependence. And it is really working for me. I've never been happier in my whole life.

Enjoy your brunch!! Love, Amelia

In my experience, if I'm making progress on my goals, the attachment is beneficial. If I'm not, all things being equal, it is not. It's not necessarily linear progress though, the old axiom that things often get worse in therapy before they get better is worth minding too. I agree about interdependence as well, I and my therapist depend upon each other, as in other relationships. It's just the trading in therapy is for somewhat different things, I trade money and effort for personal fulfillment/healing to my therapist who trades time and effort for professional fulfillment and to make a living.

An article I find helpful, somewhat related: http://www.afterpsychotherapy.com/at...-relationship/

Very good topic, as I struggle with this issue, that is why, I moniter it in therapy. The word alone " dependance" whether healthy or not, just bothers me. As far as im concerned, I didnt depened on parents, for anything, except basic needs, food, water, clothin, schooling, and a place to sleep. As I grew older, I took care of me, I may have gone hungry, and struggled, but I did it.

So to create a dependancy in therapy, in therapy for me scares me, and its not logical for work to be done. Some therapists maybe want to create this " healthy dependancy" but then how do you break or ween off these feelings the client developes for the t, hindering, future independence?

The idea in much successful therapy isn't to break feelings, but to outgrow them, to no longer crave the same attachment as we incorporate what we receive from the therapy better into our lives, to gain what we need, keep it, and build an overall better life. Think of a baby, bottle fed. As that baby grows, it doesn't have to break its desire for the bottle- it gradually transitions to a fuller diet, and wants, at a point, the independence and self-control of feeding itself. If a child was forced to bottle feed at the age of 10, it would mostly just resent that, same with good therapy.... hopefully, you'll get to naturally outgrow the dependence as you learn and gain what you need to enjoy life independently of therapy.

Naturally grow out of it...
For some reason that suggests - for some- a LONG time in therapy.. So my question is, is it really to learn it naturally or are we being given tools to not be so dependent? I know, it may depend on what kind of therapy somebody is doing.

I think it's okay to generalize in a thread. We each use the forums in different ways.

As I have read some posts here through the years, some clients develope a stron dependance towards thier therapists, which might be a benefit for both t and client in a situation, thats all well, especially long term therapy and more so in traditional therapy. What im saying is, sometimes a client does not transition into that heathy independent relationship you are "suppose" to learn in therapy, and I believe, this can enable unhealthy dependancy.

anxieties when therapists dont call on time, or answer emails on time, or cancel sessions, trust me, I been there.

Amelia, were you ever harmed by a therapist who you were overly dependent on?

As far as im concerned, amelia your posts have never offended me, I dont have a problem with people on here, as I just read and respond, I dont analize, we are all in therapy, we all have issues.

We should not be judgemental, and be considerate of others feelings. Im sorry that you felt like crap, you are not crap, you are a beautiful person with oppinions.

hugs to you, remember your coping skills.

Everyone has a right to thier oppinion on this forum , imo usually if I think my oppinion is better left for pm, then I use pm, thats just me.

please lets just be a family.

No, I never felt overly dependent with a therapist, and I wonder whether that is good or not. I read a lot about how dependence is important in client-therapist relationship - especially on this forum. I feel like it's a "fault" to have the perspective that I have and it made me think and I wanted to find out more about what people think.
A former friend of mine always got really upset when we talked about dependence on therapists because she thought she will never get out of her dependence with her own therapist. And I always wondered if I have the complete extreme by not wanting dependence and relying on myself as much as possible OR if what I feel about it is somewhere in the middle. And I am just generally interested about this topic, that's all. I meant no harm at all!

I am not dependent upon the therapist. I have no idea what "we" or "us" do or would do. I know what I do and what I think I would do.
The therapist has often told me I can depend upon her but has not given any specific ways she thinks it would be useful. I don't know really how that would play out, or why I would want to do such a thing or how it would be beneficial to me to do depend upon a stranger for a sort of ethereal something that is not specified. The therapist has told me not to be so independent.

I believe independant is a very good quality.

For many of us it seems that while growing up nobody was there to take care of us. We were on our own and became very independent and always be in control. So when we need help from our T it is uncomfortable because we are not use to reaching out to somebody else especially somebody that is a "business" relationship. Once we allow ourselves to ask for help we are uncomfortable and going too far.

My T says her job is to help us become our own T.... the hard part is getting to that point.

This may not fit any theoretical viewpoint of therapy (I avoid reading therapy books), but it seems that healthy dependence in any relationship, therapy or otherwise, rests somewhat on our ability to ask for help appropriately when we need it rather than refuse needed assistance. On the other end it rests on one's ability to take care of our needs ourselves when we can without over-extending ourselves in a harmful way. It takes self-awareness of our personal capabilities and limitations and the willingness to take care of those healthily and appropriately.

I have always tended to take care of myself and not want to bother others. It has made me very independent, but to a fault. One thing I have finally learned is that it is okay to ask for help. People won't think less of me. In therapy, that has shown over the last few years in my ability to see when I am in need of help, when doing it myself even using all my skills is not going to be enough, when relying on my pdoc or T to help me handle a crisis is absolutely the healthiest action to take. Most of the time I am very capable of handling my life and emotions pretty effectively using what I have learned, but those occasions occur when I need help and can depend on my pdoc and my T to give it.

I believe that independence is a neutral quality that can be beneficial in some situations and detrimental in others. Of course, this could come from growing up with a father who was always chastising me for being "too dependent" because although I could stay home alone for eight days when I was thirteen and he was in Cuba, I didn't particularly enjoy it and would rather have had him home with me, especially over holidays like Christmas when I was feeling alone and abandoned because my father didn't even seem to notice, much les care, that my first Christmas after being kicked out of the house by my mom might be painful for me.

According to my father, my independence (which included self-sufficiency at age thirteen - I got up in the morning, got myself ready, made breakfast, walked to school, walked home from school, had a snack, did my homework, did the part-time work he brought home for me from his business so I could earn some extra money and make myself useful, and amused myself until he got home from work around seven or eight) was never enough. It was just expected that I would be able to take care of myself physically, and it annoyed him that I wasn't able to fully take care of myself emotionally.

So to me, independence has been necessary for survival, but not necessarily a positive trait since it led to me just bottling up strong emotions which would then manifest themselves in other ways because I didn't want to bother people or ask them for help. I think a healthy "dependence" (I hate this word, but it's technically correct) is probably what I would be looking for with new T - where I can "depend" on her to be there when I need her, and if I felt secure about that, I would be able to be mostly "independent" without needing to bottle up my emotions because I would have someone it was safe to express them with.

I don't think this is a subject where there is one right answer for all of "us". It really depends on the individual as it does with most things, I don't think generalizing is useful here.

For some people it is beneficial to grow dependent on the therapist, for some not. Some people will be dependent on the therapist, some won't. Everyone is different.

I had a pdoc for therapy as a kid until i graduated college. she was a replacement for my mom and I was devastated when I stopped seeing her, so even though I didn't know it I was dependent on her.

Its been some time since I've had these feelings, but I definitely think I am dependent on my pdoc in a way. Not on my female t though, so I take that to mean I have some transference going on. I also think its just what I know of the therapeutic relationship. As a kid I never thought about not seeing her, she was just a part of my life. Even if I didn't see her for months, I knew I could. I feel like that now about my psychiatrist.

At first he was a crush as well as a replacement for my husband. I have man issues so I think I needed him as the "new" man I would go to for support and ( hopefully) acceptance. As my h and I began working things out last year, that has lessened significantly, but I still like having him as a fixture in my life. He prescribes my meds of course, which anyone can do, but I also talk to him about my relationship issues and even sometimes grad school related things. I guess that's still dependence and it is interesting to think about where I would expect to go from here. It would be nice if I just grow out of him, but I don't let go of things or people easily, so I can't imagine it happening...

very good thread, you come up with great discussions!

I guess im afraid of dependancy, probably stemming from developmental attachment issues.

I like the broad general questions. I think generalized topics can reach more people vs a narrow specific problem that only a few people might have. Both are helpful in different ways. Ive noticed threads that are broader usually get more responses vs say my post about a specific worry I had in therapy. My post was useful to me but probably not to whole lot of people.

As far as your question about dependence. It scares me to be dependent or close to someone. It's only caused me trouble in the past. So for me it's good to have good experiences of depending on someone. I worry I will get too dependent on therapy but I think I will need it less as I work on my problems.

I really think it depends on the person. Some people avoid healthy dependency because they have been taught any type of dependency is bad. That forces them to never rely on anyone and to live their lives alone. We are social creatures, and we cannot and should not live alone. That's emotional murder. This correlates with an "avoidant attachment" problem.

On the other hand, some people don't know how to function without other people, and are too dependent. These people can't exist without someone else taking care of them or protecting them or encouraging them. They can't form their own opinions or their own lives. This correlates with a "preoccupied attachment" problem.

And then you have the person who is both at once. In some ways, they feel like they can't survive or exist without others being there all the time, yet they are terrified to reach out or try to find some sort of connection. I would say this correlates with a "disorganized attachment" problem.

I think it's unhealthy dependence when you rely on another person to be happy...

I depend on T to be there for my sessions, and to listen and be consistent and not judge me, to keep everything I say confidential, and to apply his experience and knowledge in order to help me - in a word, to do his job. I think that's as far as it is realistic for me to take it. A therapy goal for me is to not need the kind of help that only T can provide, in terms of emotional support, so can't let myself become dependent on that support - it has to be an optional extra.

I don't really think I get emotional support from the therapist. I count on the woman to let me tell her things I don't tell others and for her not to react. I depend on her to stay back from my real life.