[lunatic soul]

I was reading another thread about throwing away from therapy because of money. It's so cruel.
I have similar situation, I can't pay for weekly sessions anymore.
I told this to my T and he said- you can find a better job. And also- We can meet after every two weeks or once a mounth.
I said- okay should I sell drugs to see you?
Of course he said no.

People attaches to their Ts very often. They pay for this relationships, T is an imaginary friend who pretends that he is interested in us because we give them money.
I think that Ts can manipulate and abuse attachment to keep us and to get money from us, they could feel stable knowing we will always be their clients.

I really hope that I am wrong.
I didnt wait that he would tell me to find a better job to see him. I'm afraid he cares only about my money.
I think if really cared he would give me a choice to see him and pay less.
It's just stupid to find a better job just to pay for sessions, it's crazy! I would want to find a better job for any other reasons not for seeing him.
When I understand that he cares about me just because I pay for it it seems too disgusting like paying a ***** to love you (be interested in you).
By the way I know that it's his job. I also think how to get more money when I'm working.
Yes, I know we pay for threatment but it's too sad when I imagine he would never care for me if I weren't his client. I want true care, true attachment not attachment to my money.
I know that every person is different and there are Ts who really cares. I don't know about mine.

What do you think about it?

What if you turned up at a gym and asked them to let you work out for free?

Yes, we know our Ts because they are paid (by us, by our taxes, or by our insurance.) But that does not mean that they do not like to see us. Most Ts can choose which clients they see. I don't understand why anybody would choose a job that involves many years' worth of studies and training, and is not particularly well-paid, if they did not feel an interest in the people they meet with. I would not meet my students if I were not paid to do so. I still like them and am very invested in their success. (And I don't have the luxury to refer students to somebody else if I can't stand them, unlike my T, who can do that.)
But the professional interest and caring we can get from a T is not the same as the interest and caring that some people may get from friends and family. That is part of the T relationship.

[anilam]

I think it's absolutely fair for a T to terminate if the client can't pay.
I would also doubt that there exist stg like a "true" care- without getting stg from that RS back. In therapy T should get back money, in friendship you should get to meet some of your needs ect.

[BeGentle]

Some certainly do. Just like every other business. You have the good, bad and ugly. I've had a really difficult time with this, especially the first 18 months. I thought, of course, it's only about the money and he is creating a need. He tried repeatedly to get me back into therapy. He knew I needed help. When I finally caved and called him, he couldn't pick up the phone fast enough (something he never does) and saw me that afternoon. Many do abuse their position, and to me, that is the ultimate abuse. Well, when I could no longer pay his fee, he reduced it. He offered to see my husband for free. I have actually accused him of getting pleasure out of my pain and by his response, I could tell I deeply hurt him. But now, actions speak louder than words and there is no denying he is authentic. But.....sometimes I still wonder if he is stringing me along. Then I do some serious thinking about how he has made himself available to me 24/7 and gone to great lenghts to correct misunderstandings, etc. This is definitely a tough/common concern.

[Notoriousglo]

Trusting people is based on what you believe. If you believe therapists manipulate you, it is definitely a legitimate concern, right? However my negative beliefs are what have been hurting my options for relationships and help. So I decided to believe some therapists probably do not care, but some probably do. This allowed the concern to evaporate and for me to receive the help I desperately needed. This being said, I had to find a therapist that didn't strike me as being disingenuous.

[lunatic soul]

I'm just worried that I see him not because I need therapy but because I'm just used to see him and he is part of my life and if I quit it would be like he is dead.
No, I'm not obsessed with him, it's just strange when I imagine he is not in my life anymore because I can't pay him for seeing me. And if I think that way it hurts and I feel that he doesn't care for me if I can't pay him anymore.

[Notoriousglo]

Right, this sounds like you're looking to make this departure personal and it is if you think like you do. In reality, the therapy would end over money... like a business transaction. Read what you just posted...can you see the erratic thoughts? Idk if this helps... I do a similar thing with guys...I make a reason for a relationship to end, then find a reason why the guy abandoned me and it's his fault. I don't control this well, but it's an attachment issue.

[PeeJay]

There's a lot to say on this topic and I believe I've written many responses to threads on these boards where a similar question is asked.

My thoughts can be summarized as:
-All people have a choice in how to make a living and therapists in particular chose this therapy profession. So, competent therapists do care about their jobs and care about their clients and want to be helpful. They are probably curious about people and the human condition. There are many ways to make money in this world. One does not have to choose to be a therapist. So it's a special type of person who chooses to be a therapist.

-All relationship involve some exchange -- one gives and one takes and vice versa. In therapy, you give money and you take in listening, being heard, a desire to understand you, clinical expertise, and time. In a marriage or long term partnership, there is an exchange of companionship, child-rearing capability, money and sex. In a best friendship, there is an exchange of listening, being heard, a desire to understand each other, and time -- but it is mutual. In a professor-student relationship, the student takes in learning and the professor is paid. An exchange of some sort doesn't lessen or cheapen the relationship, it is the basis of the relationship. Affection can be feigned but true affection cannot be bought.

--The only chance one has in life for an imbalance in give and take is with one's own parents. If one did not get that in childhood, the loss can be bitter. The loss must be mourned.

--The way to lessen the sting of having a paid therapist who seeks to help you and understand you is to cultivate relationship in real life with people who matter MORE to you than the therapist. You are not the number one person in the therapist's life and when you are emotionally healthy, the therapist will not be the number one person in your life. If you are wondering if you are emotionally healthy, and the therapist is the number one person in your life, then the answer is that you have more work to do.

[lunatic soul]

Originally Posted by euphy

Right, this sounds like you're looking to make this departure personal and it is if you think like you do. In reality, the therapy would end over money... like a business transaction. Read what you just posted...can you see the erratic thoughts? Idk if this helps... I do a similar thing with guys...I make a reason for a relationship to end, then find a reason why the guy abandoned me and it's his fault. I don't control this well, but it's an attachment issue.

I didn't understand what you wanted to say by ending your relatonships with guys.
Do you think I'm searching a reason why my T is bad, selfish, liar and abuser? I think I really do it.
Yes, it's attachment I know, I can't be just cold to person who I see for more then two years and it hurts if I'm just money giver in his eyes.
Okay he said he likes his job and it's interesting for him and he likes to help people but everyone who choce professionan they like would say the same thing- I like my job and it's interesting and of course I like to get money and I need money because I have wife and children.
And who am I? Nothing. Raindrop in a water.

[lunatic soul]

Originally Posted by PeeJay

There's a lot to say on this topic and I believe I've written many responses to threads on these boards where a similar question is asked.

My thoughts can be summarized as:
-All people have a choice in how to make a living and therapists in particular chose this therapy profession. So, competent therapists do care about their jobs and care about their clients and want to be helpful. They are probably curious about people and the human condition. There are many ways to make money in this world. One does not have to choose to be a therapist. So it's a special type of person who chooses to be a therapist.

-All relationship involve some exchange -- one gives and one takes and vice versa. In therapy, you give money and you take in listening, being heard, a desire to understand you, clinical expertise, and time. In a marriage or long term partnership, there is an exchange of companionship, child-rearing capability, money and sex. In a best friendship, there is an exchange of listening, being heard, a desire to understand each other, and time -- but it is mutual. In a professor-student relationship, the student takes in learning and the professor is paid. An exchange of some sort doesn't lessen or cheapen the relationship, it is the basis of the relationship. Affection can be feigned but true affection cannot be bought.

--The only chance one has in life for an imbalance in give and take is with one's own parents. If one did not get that in childhood, the loss can be bitter. The loss must be mourned.

--The way to lessen the sting of having a paid therapist who seeks to help you and understand you is to cultivate relationship in real life with people who matter MORE to you than the therapist. You are not the number one person in the therapist's life and when you are emotionally healthy, the therapist will not be the number one person in your life. If you are wondering if you are emotionally healthy, and the therapist is the number one person in your life, then the answer is that you have more work to do.

I never thought I could ever be number one person in his life.
You are right and reality is not beautiful at all.
I'm sick of paying for listening to me, I have friends and family why do I need him? But it hurts to leave.
It makes me too depressed if I think about it. I hope he is not lying to me about his feelings to get money from me, I hope he is not abusing me.

[SarahSweden]

I don´t think most therapists are playing with or using the clients feelings in order to get them to dependable upon therapy but I do think it´s completely wrong of a therapist to let people enter into therapy knowing their lack of own funding and the impossibility to complete a treatment.

The emotional bond is crucial to get something really good out of therapy and if you feel connected to the therapist (in a plathonic way) he or she has done his or her work properly. But of course some T:s will see their chance getting some more money if they can, telling the client the issues aren´t completely dealt with but I think these situations are rare.

The largest fault being made in all these situations with clients having little or no money to pay for therapy is letting them into therapy at the first place. Perhaps this sounds odd but I think it´s better telling the client to address some publically financed care where there´s no fee at all or a very small fee. As a client you will probably have to wait for a longer time to get into therapy as many people are seeking care but when you finally enter you have a much more stable relationship with your therapist. (given that you feel the T is the right one for you).

[lunatic soul]

I remember one more thing- I miscounted the money, I was stressed and I gave him less money than he ussually asks and when I went away he called me saying- you didn't pay all your bill.

Maybe he is doing right but I take everything too personal and think that he is liar and abuser. So I hope I am wrong?

When I said I have not enough money he asked at the end of a session- will you come next week? It made me think that he really doesn't care for me.

Thanks everyone for replies.

[stopdog]

I think sometimes there is created an illusion of caring and it seems to help some people and it hurts other people and some people don't bother with it at all but do things another way. The truth as I see it is one is paying them for a service that is not clearly defined nor structured in any way that the client can clearly see easily. It can cause harm but it may not always do so. It is a risky endeavor.

[SarahSweden]

As the money issue seems to be quite large, perhaps you could mention it to your T? Saying that you experience his focus on money and asking if you will come in next time makes you feel that his pay comes before your health? You should perhaps but it in a more diplomatic way but still.

[lunatic soul]

Originally Posted by SarahSweden

As the money issue seems to be quite large, perhaps you could mention it to your T? Saying that you experience his focus on money and asking if you will come in next time makes you feel that his pay comes before your health? You should perhaps but it in a more diplomatic way but still.

I talked about it.
He said he likes his job and it's interesting and he sometimes attaches to clients and me too.
I think I just have wrong thinking. I'm afraid of illusions that's why I always think that people dont like me, people reject me, people abuse me etc.
Everytime he said he has feelings for me I doubted it and was trying to find a reason why he lies to me.

[nottrustin]

Like everything else, I am sure there are some who do abuse the situation while others do not. I know when I have had financial concerns T has always told me that money will never be an issue for her. She is there for me whatever happens (hubby was laid off and we though was going to lose insurance or when hubby was out sick and money was tight so my copay potentially was an issue). On the other hand in college when I was unable to pay for it I was dropped. She was an awesome T but she also depended on paying clients to pay her bills. Just like I wouldn't go into a store and be upset because I could not afford to pay for my groceries so I had to leave them; I couldn't be upset with a T who was unable to do free sessions.

[ChildlikeEmpress]

I think maybe the occasional T might do this, but the majority do not. I think most T's become T's because they care about people and want to help. It doesn't sound to me like your T is trying to manipulate you in this case, just from what you've written. It is his profession and he has to pay his bills, too. That doesn't mean he doesn't care about you very much. He is not allowed to have a relationship with you outside of therapy and to attach in the same way as a friendship, so yes, the relationship is confined to therapy sessions and he still deserves to be paid for his work. We all deserve to be paid for our work.
I have customers that I like very, very much and care about -- but I don't give them what I make for free or discounted if they are unable to pay for them. In my profession I'm able to be friends socially with my customers if I choose -- but in therapy that isn't allowed, so unfortunately yes the relationship can terminate if I were unable to pay my T any longer. That does not in any way mean that my T would care any less about me, but I understand that it is a paid service they provide. I understand that they too have bills and things they have to pay, and they absolutely deserve to be paid for their work.
I think your T asking if you could find a better job does not sound like it's about seeking money, but because he does care and would still like to help you if possible. He can't be your friend outside of therapy. But he does deserve to be paid, he is doing work. You deserve to be paid when you do your work. Him offering to see you every other week or once a month says to me he is trying to make it so that you can afford it better and still get some help. It really sounds like he's trying to help you, not hurt you.
That said, I know it feels really awful coming to the point where you might have to stop seeing him. It is a special type of relationship because you tell them so many sensitive things. It hurts to end a T relationship. It's totally ok to grieve this, it's normal!

Originally Posted by PeeJay

In a marriage or long term partnership, there is an exchange of companionship, child-rearing capability, money and sex.

All of those are optional in a marriage/romantic relationship, though!

In a best friendship, there is an exchange of listening, being heard, a desire to understand each other, and time -- but it is mutual.

It can be mutual, I'm sure. Again, optional. Some of us are not needed in that way, but we can still need other people.

[lunatic soul]

Originally Posted by ChildlikeEmpress

I think maybe the occasional T might do this, but the majority do not. I think most T's become T's because they care about people and want to help. It doesn't sound to me like your T is trying to manipulate you in this case, just from what you've written. It is his profession and he has to pay his bills, too. That doesn't mean he doesn't care about you very much. He is not allowed to have a relationship with you outside of therapy and to attach in the same way as a friendship, so yes, the relationship is confined to therapy sessions and he still deserves to be paid for his work. We all deserve to be paid for our work.
I have customers that I like very, very much and care about -- but I don't give them what I make for free or discounted if they are unable to pay for them. In my profession I'm able to be friends socially with my customers if I choose -- but in therapy that isn't allowed, so unfortunately yes the relationship can terminate if I were unable to pay my T any longer. That does not in any way mean that my T would care any less about me, but I understand that it is a paid service they provide. I understand that they too have bills and things they have to pay, and they absolutely deserve to be paid for their work.
I think your T asking if you could find a better job does not sound like it's about seeking money, but because he does care and would still like to help you if possible. He can't be your friend outside of therapy. But he does deserve to be paid, he is doing work. You deserve to be paid when you do your work. Him offering to see you every other week or once a month says to me he is trying to make it so that you can afford it better and still get some help. It really sounds like he's trying to help you, not hurt you.
That said, I know it feels really awful coming to the point where you might have to stop seeing him. It is a special type of relationship because you tell them so many sensitive things. It hurts to end a T relationship. It's totally ok to grieve this, it's normal!

Your post gave me hope that maybe you are right and he cares about me.
Thank you, I hope you are right.

[someone321]

I agree with nottrusting that probably, as in all domains, there are Ts who might behave unethically or work only for money... But I don't think that it is very common, it would be pretty painful for a T to spend many hours per day with clients who they wouldn't like and didn't care about... I at least do care about my students and co-workers even if I think that I wouldn't like to work for free
And I am quite lucky as I'm pretty sure that my T doesn't do it, she's totally booked and she could always find clients so she doesn't have to keep someone only to get more money. I wouldn't ask her to work with me for free though. Like I wouldn't ask my sister to do something big and related to her occupation for free to me, I like her and I respect her job and I would be even more than happy to pay for it as that's what she does for living... And while I think that probably my sister would insist to do something like that for free, I would never expect someone else to do it...

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by Mastodon

All of those are optional in a marriage/romantic relationship, though!


It can be mutual, I'm sure. Again, optional. Some of us are not needed in that way, but we can still need other people.

I think the point is that only relationships where affection, acceptance and love are unconditional are (or should be) the parent - child relationship. Every other relationship, whether it be romantic, friendship, business, therapy, or countless others, involves an exchange of some kind and can end at any time. Therapy is unique in that it is an exchange of money for a service that is more personal than most other services; one that a lot of people might feel more deeply about than the service provider is capable of. I think because of this the relationship can be confusing and even harmful to some people, which is why I personally think that T's need to be very careful about their behavior with clients. Not that they shouldn't sincerely care, I honestly believe that most care very much. I just think some very well meaning T's keep boundaries too loose and become the surrogate friend, parent or other figure without understanding how this affects their clients. So I can see how all of a sudden it seems manipulative or insincere when we're reminded of the business aspect of therapy. Unless a T has been through therapy themselves I don't think they completelyy understand how intense this attachment can become.

[Hellion]

There probably are therapists mostly in it for the money, though not sure how high paying of a job it is or if it varies...but some are probably more concerned with helping people than their profit.

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by Hellion

There probably are therapists mostly in it for the money, though not sure how high paying of a job it is or if it varies...but some are probably more concerned with helping people than their profit.

I think this is one field that people do not go into for the money. Yes therapists can and do make a good living, but you have to work hard for that and be good at what you do. The same with psychiatry. My brother in law a doctor and told me that in med school (like in any grad school) there is a heiarchy of specialists. Psychiatrists are at the very bottom of that heirchy. He told me if a doctor is in it for the money they go into cosmetic surgery or anesthesiology not psychiatary since they are among the lowest paid doctors. They do well of course but not compared to other doctors or they have to be the very elite. So with that in mind I think most people in the field sincerely care for their clients in one way or another. At least I hope!

[stopdog]

I don't see the clear correlation between not making a bunch of money and being a therapist because of caring. Basically a therapist just sits there, can blame the client and label them with impunity, it is indoors, and does not involve a lot of math or heavy lifting. Some clients will overly adore you and some will not. I just don't see it as that that taxing of an endeavor.