[tealBumblebee]

So, today was the first session (i've been seeing her for a little over a year) in which I ever wanted to actually 'snap' at T. We're talking about some pretty heavy stuff now, things she thought I may never discuss, but i'm trying.

Today, we worked on it some more and I found myself getting defensive. She asked me to explain how and I told her I felt myself becoming argumentative. She tried so many approaches to get me to actually tell her what I was thinking/argue with her (she thought it would be good for me); including telling me how she wouldn't get angry, how it'd be helpful, that its okay to have an opinion, that she really wanted to know, there would be no judgement, trying it in third person, etc. But all I could think over and over was "I will not let you provoke me."

I felt like I was being that bratty teenager by pretty much giving her the silent treatment (I can be stubborn) but I knew it'd be 10x worse if I let it out. Everything she said (especially when trying to get me to argue with her) resulted with those childish wants to just say "Leave me alone." "I don't care." "Stop talking to me." "Oh my gosh, just shut up." and other more nasty things. But that's not my nature to want to be like that so I wouldn't give in. She asked why not and I told her I didn't have a reason to argue with her, it wouldn't make sense.

Anyways, I've figured out a technique to broach the tough subject next week (working on an oration) but still trying to process today's session a bit. Is there anyone here who's not normally an argumentative person who's been in this situation? Did you choose to argue or hold your ground? How did it turn out?

[Leah123]

I've responded in both ways. That type of poking around typically engages my withdraw defense, so I've certainly done that. I've told her that I just feel self-conscious and that if she wants me to speak, it will take patience, not prodding. Other, tougher times, I've just gone silent.

However, I recall one memorable time that she'd provoked me just a bit too far and I did reply with a fury. I really let her have it, a proper, uncensored tongue lashing. I gave her the what for.

I lived to regret it, ha, but I lived.

It was also a breakthrough in my therapy. She finally realized something critical to my moving forward, and it was one of those ruptures that did mend up very nicely in time, and allow me to be seen, angry, and not punished for it. That was a good experience.

[SnakeCharmer]

I always thought I wasn't an argumentative person until I figured out that refusing to communicate while thinking vile thoughts is a damn angry response that was way more destructive in my relationships than having a verbal, but civil, argument.

If you weren't angry, you wouldn't be thinking, "OMG, just shut up," while turning on the silent uncommunicative treatment. It's just a cold form of anger instead of a hot one.

Learning how to disagree in a more agreeable manner than shouting or turning the cold shoulder was a really important part of getting better for me. Maybe that's what your therapist was trying to show you.

ETA: Now, I get angry about far fewer things. Some I just let go because they're not really important, more just irritations when I already feel irritable, like with PMS. I can now discuss and disagree without yelling or feeling all adenalized. Maybe once every two or three years, my H and I will have a shouting match and we usually start laughing about halfway through because we both realize we were both irritable at the same time over small things that weren't important. But when it comes to the important things, we can talk and disagree without really arguing or shouting or getting resentful. I couldn't do that before without getting upset inside. So, yeah, getting over my persona of being someone who didn't argue was really important for me.

"So, yeah, getting over my persona of being someone who didn't argue was really important for me."

Omg thanks for that. It brought on an epiphany of sorts for me. I seem to be operating under this whole "good girl persona" that t's been trying to get me to rid myself of for 3 years. I am seeing what she means in a new light, this goes hand in hand with accepting and integrating my "shadow parts". Now I think I am understanding this shadow work part of the process a little better. Thank you for sharing that.

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[JustShakey]

Originally Posted by artemis-within

"So, yeah, getting over my persona of being someone who didn't argue was really important for me."

Omg thanks for that. It brought on an epiphany of sorts for me. I seem to be operating under this whole "good girl persona" that t's been trying to get me to rid myself of for 3 years. I am seeing what she means in a new light, this goes hand in hand with accepting and integrating my "shadow parts". Now I think I am understanding this shadow work part of the process a little better. Thank you for sharing that.

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Oh, hell yeah. This. Refusing to accept the dark parts of yourself essentially means you're pushing at least part of your responsibility for yourself onto the people around you. Perfectly fine and normal in children, but can have seriously scary consequences in adults (ask me how I know!), not to mention being just plain annoying.

Originally Posted by JustShakey

Oh, hell yeah. This. Refusing to accept the dark parts of yourself essentially means you're pushing at least part of your responsibility for yourself onto the people around you. Perfectly fine and normal in children, but can have seriously scary consequences in adults (ask me how I know!), not to mention being just plain annoying.

Exactly. Growing up is hard when you wait as long as I ended up doing. I stopped at 15, restarted via therapy at 48.

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[JustShakey]

Originally Posted by artemis-within

Exactly. Growing up is hard when you wait as long as I ended up doing. I stopped at 15, restarted via therapy at 48.

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Tell me about it. Parts of me are stalled at 4, 9 and 15. I've worked a lot on my 9 year old and a bit on my teen. My babygirl though, I'm working on building enough trust with my T to let him near her. It's not easy, that's for sure.

[growlycat]

Maybe not argumentativeness, but denial in a bratty way--yes!

CBT T I think is on to me and knows I feel attracted to him.
Sometimes he will mention…"Nice shirt, is that new?"

Nope. I've always had this.

"New 'do! Nice haircut. That must be new."

No I just flipped my hair to the left instead of right.

"Nice shoes…where did you get them"

I haven't worn them in a while so it was time to bring them out.

All subtle ways of asking "Do you dress better for sessions than you regularly do?"

NUH - UH!!! Don't flatter yourself. You are imagining things
LALALALA I CAN"T HEAR YOU!

[tealBumblebee]

Some of these replies made me kind of sad and immature. Still. I think I tried not to give in for fear that I would say something inappropriate. I felt like allowing myself to have misguided anger towards her could result in some serious unnecessary drama and guilt on my part. I'm glad that in Leah's case you lived through it lol, but to know it was well worth it makes me wonder if I should just give in. I'd love to have a major breakthrough like that but it's hard to think i'll be able to find the regret survivable. I'm not sure if my struggle was in believing that she would allow me to show her those shadow parts (as Artemis labeled them; which I loved) or the fact that I would have revealed that side of me for an argument that was unnecessary. I agree, SnakeCharmer, that my behavior did exhibit a cold form of anger which is why I felt like I was still being argumentative by not talking to her - what is one to do in such a lose/lose situation?? But yes, you may be right as T has commented on how difficult it is to get me to disagree (openly) with someone elses opinion... I didn't understand JustShakey, what you meant by "refusing to accept the dark parts of yourself essentially means you're pushing at least part of your responsibility for yourself onto the people around you..." Wouldn't it be the other way around by not lashing out and blaming others for "making me angry in the first place"? Lol Growlycat, I totally felt like that brat you describe. But it was still better than feeling angry and crazy.