High IQ and Therapy?

Sure. I appreciate reading all the different points of view.
I think I posted this before, but I think it'll bring some levity to the thread.

I love this post^^ - I think it makes a great point

My T said last session that it's far easier to work with someone as smart as I am than with someone with and IQ of 50, because I can do behavioural analysis with barely any help from her while it's nigh impossible for someone with an IQ of fifty, even with help.

I'm not sure if I liked the way she said it, but I do see her point. I analyze everything, including myself. And that saves the T from having to analyze me.

I think any extreme probably presents a bit of a challenge in the context of therapy whether on the far low end (probably below 90) and the extreme high end (maybe above 150). People with higher IQs may tend to, as another poster said, intellectualize things. This isnt about being an "intellectual" but rather it's an avoidance of acknowledging emotions. I think most people have done this at some point out of self preservation, but some people do it to an extreme. They might over focus on practical, factual and technical details of a situation rather than any emotional ones. I think it's often avoidance but with the more intelligent I think it can stem from difficulty with understanding/ articulating emotions. Interestingly, I think people with very low IQs have the same difficulty with emotions. The difference is the people with lower IQs have other deficiencies as well, such as with language and analytical ability. So in this respect, therapy is more difficult (or nearly impossible) with intellectually challenged people than it is with the gifted.

An IQ of 90 or below isn't really an extreme - it depends on the scale, of course, but the most common scales put an iq of 90 at the 25th percentile. Meanwhile, an IQ of 150 is at 99.96 percentile, so that's really extreme.

I think this is a really interesting topic overall. It wasn't until fairly recently in reading about the effects of giftedness in adult personality that I realized that many of my personality traits that I had often felt quite self-critical about were actually related to intelligence. I had always figured the ramifications of a high IQ were something I had left behind in high school or perhaps college, and that it was pretty much irrelevant to the rest of my life. But I think now that it's more complicated than that, and it seems there are emotional implications that can go along with having a high IQ. Realizing this actually caused me to make a few major changes in my life and take on a huge challenge that I knew would feed my brain and which has changed my life in a way that I could never have predicted. I am really glad that I took the time to learn about this and explore the meaning of the high IQ thing and what it could mean for me in my life.

I do think it's important for therapists to have an understanding of giftedness and the way it can affect adult lives. It also seems there hasn't been a ton of research done on this. I am grateful for my current therapist, who seems to get it.

One interesting article about potential emotional implications of "giftedness" is Can You Hear the Flowers Sing? Issues for Gifted Adults « SENG (I will say that I hate the term "giftedness", but it's the term a lot of people who explore the topic use.)

I get what you say about intellectualizing things. T says I'm afraid of x so I don't do it. I say x is dangerous so I don't do it. I can list more reasons why it is dangerous than T can list reasons it's not. And I don't want to get over my "fears" (which I don't feel are fears, but just plain common sense) because it's not a fear, it's just a realistic assessment that a situation is dangerous. I don't want to not be afraid of dangerous things.

You're right I really should have said an IQ of 75 or below since below 70 would be intellectually challenged. That's what I meant- that a client at either end of the spectrun probably do have challenges in therapy.

So, the assumption here is that being intellectual will interfere with emotions. (I assume a connection between rationality, being analytical and being intellectual).

Enter the straw Vulcan. (, short version).
Basically, if being intellectual causes someone to have a problem acknowledging emotions, then they're doing it wrong.

Again, I ask, do counselors really encourage their clients to stop analyzing and stop being intellectual?

The first one I see does, the second does not.

That's a hangup anyone may have, but there's no need to pathologize high intelligence to see why it may pose challenges to a therapist not familiar with the population. While some people may avoid emotions, I certainly don't think that stems just from high intelligence. It may concur, but in my experience, it's often just the opposite.

Looking at the traits of highly intelligent people and my experience with them suggests that there are simply things to take into consideration, more similarly to those with other cultural differences (consider different ethnic groups but also deaf culture, queer culture, etc.) than to some type of disability! Some groups have unique paradigms and therapists familiar with them or suited to working with those populations will tend to do better I'd think.

I'm reposting some commonly accepted traits of highly intelligent people from an Australian list posted earlier in the thread, which is fairly similiar to other lists I've seen and notes sensitivity to emotions rather than any tendancy to avoid them.

• perfectionistic and sets high standards for self and others
• has strong moral convictions
• feels outrage at moral breaches that others seem to take for granted
• is highly sensitive, perceptive or insightful
• is a good problem solver
• has unusual ideas or connects seemingly unrelated ideas
• thrives on challenge
• fascinated by words or an avid reader
• learns new things rapidly
• has a good long-term memory
• is very curious
• has an unusual sense of humor
• has a vivid and rich imagination
• feels overwhelmed by many interests and abilities
• loves ideas and ardent discussion
• can't switch off thinking
• is very compassionate
• has passionate, intense feelings
• has a great deal of energy
• feels driven by creativity
• needs periods of contemplation
• searches for answers in life
• feels out-of-sync or out-of-step with others
• feels a sense of alienation and loneliness

For example, teachers of gifted children are dealing with a group that questions everything, moreso and more doggedly than others.

Not everyone responds well to being inundated with questions. Teachers of highly capable students in my district have a better understanding of why and how this happens and the best ones are very giving when it comes not only to answering "endless," sometimes challenging questions, but to encouraging them and critical thinking in general.

When we feel safe in therapy, that can open up the flood of questions again, of unbridled curiosity, and a therapist not ready for the population may not do well with the questioning. It can be a blessing and bane in therapy. And questioning is certainly not devoid of emotional content either! That's just one simple example.

For me, a large part of it is that I don't see that emotion/feeling has any purpose. If it has no purpose, why would I waste time on it.

It's not how big it is, it's how you use it.

Yep, it's often easy to get ahead of them and see what they are doing, or leading or attempting to lead/do. I think 'where are you going' is an appropriate response/interaction. I know that for most of my life I spent/wasted way too much time 'accomodating' people, particularly those 'in authority' .... that doesn't mean it's okay to be rude, but it is better for all to be upfront and honest in most of our interactions.

It does have a purpose or we would have evolved beyond it. Maybe think of it that way even if you don't understand it.

I do not believe that simply because they exist they must have a purpose. We have wisdom teeth, appendixes, nipples on men and other things that serve no real purpose and yet they are there.

You are of course welcome to believe anything you want, but then there is reality.

P.S. there are clear science/evolutionary reasons for all the things you mention (just like emotions).

P.P.S. there are an overwhelming number of examples of why emotions exist and are purposeful beyond there existence.

I am not going against reality. I have never found an explanation for the purpose of feelings that I found fit me. Just because something once had a purpose does not mean anything if that purpose has evolved out. I know people try to give reasons for feelings - just none of those reasons are enough for me to think it matters. I know I have them - but because they are useless to me, I have no reason to focus on them.
You of course, are allowed to find all the purpose you want or deal with your own reality in your own way.

Unfortunately you are (going against reality) as I explained, but also as I said you are welcome to have that belief.

Now if we could get back to the topic which is "High IQ and Therapy"

I disagree and have no idea why you think you get to dictate the situation. I have asked the therapists and even their response has been that feeling don't have a purpose - they just are.

I dictate nothing, but science, evolution, life does. If your therapists said there is no purpose to feelings, they should have their license pulled, they don't know what they are talking about. The fact that they exist and the fact that they serve a purpose in life, living and social interactions is not debatable, but again I will say, if you are willing to believe they have no purpose then be my guest. Others have even more outrageous beliefs and with that I'm done with this discussion unless you want to discuss the topic of this thread which is "High IQ and Therapy."

It is great with me if you are done. I see no purpose that makes feelings worthwhile to me. No one has ever presented an argument I find persuasive. I am sure the therapists I see would not be upset you don't agree with them. If you find active purpose in emotion, fine with me.
I think it fits with the IQ discussion.

I might not have expressed myself well, since I did not mean to imply that counselors think analytical and intellectual ability on their own interfere with ones emotions.

I don't believe and have never heard anyone claim that intellect on it own has a negative effect on therapy. In my experience high ingelligence on its own is a strength in the context of therapy, not an obstacle. However, some people who have difficulty identifying and processing emotions also have high IQs. It's possible that these individuals may struggle with therapy more than others.

Counselors do not encourage clients to stop being analytical and/ or intellectual, at least I've never met such a counselor.

The first lcsw I see has tried to encourage it with me. The phd I saw for just a couple of months about 15 years ago did also. Frankly it seemed like both of them were trying to turn me into some sort of hugging, weeping, fairy seeing
hippie type.

I actually have. My group co-therapists sharply scolded us for describing an event in thinking rather than feeling terms. In retrospect, I --feel--they were buffoons. Or is that a thought? And who decides?

I think often one of the big issues in therapy (of any kind) is getting patients in touch with their emotions.

I've certainly seen situations where people (such as myself) can use intellect/analytic approaches to nullify emotions thereby more or less preventing the therapy from getting to where/what it needs to get to.

Intellect if used to assist the therapy then yes it can help tremendously (provided the therapist acknowledges, understands and makes use of it) but it can also work against getting to the core of the issue(s).