[IndestructibleGirl]

I have a session tomorrow, and I'm not sure if I should talk about this. Everyone who has ever remotely assessed me has always said I'm definitely not bipolar, and I don't think I am either - although my late mother used to worry I was showing signs of going that way because of my mood swings.

After having a very dark dangerous night at the weekend, I have picked up and swung back into a really invincible productive kind of mood. I have noticed this happen before. In one way I got loads done yesterday - nothing huge, but lots of little tasks that the week before would have been a struggle. Was so restless and agitated I had to go to the gym to burn off steam. Embraced all contacts from quite a few friends and felt really social and genuinely happy to interact with them.

Feeling really sexually motivated, but was thrilled with myself for fantasizing about positive healthy interaction that left me with no guilt or worry afterwards. The only fly in the ointment is that I fantasized about my therapist, and while I don't feel exactly bad about it, it feels like another complication and my head feels too full.

Managing my workload in my career in an upbeat way, but not really getting stuff done if that makes sense - although I know I will pull an all nighter or two and get it done come hell or high water. I haven't slept much and it's like being tired but not. I feel SO optimistic, though I do have a sense of realism that I might tumble back down into the bad place, but feel fearless and for some reason adrenalized. I have taken a (prescribed) pill that is supposed to help with concentration and alertness.

I can't work out if this is something to be worried about or not? Maybe my emotions are just shot to pieces, so everything is a bit haphazard? Is this just what feeling a bit happy is like - is it just that I feel optimistic so infrequently these days it feels unfamiliar?

I do know I also will need to talk about the new erotic schiz with my therapist at some time but I feel like I'm going too fast and need to slow down, and need to talk about my really bad night (sui) at the weekend as a priority, and not get bogged down talking about sex.

[HazelGirl]

This definitely sounds bipolar. Although it may not be bad now, and may appear to have benefits, it can and does get worse without treatment. Definitely talk about it both with your T and with a psychiatrist.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Bugger

It feels SO MUCH BETTER to be this way, though, where I actually have motivation and enthusiasm - and I mean, I'm talking about stuff that's normal for most people, like having the energy to do everyday stuff. I guess it's not so much the stuff I'm doing that's making me uneasy but the sudden swooping shift into 'good' territory, with this really odd mix of fearlessness and edginess skulking at the sideline.

The bipolar I've seen up close has been more extreme, with full blown mania, paranoia and almost psychosis, so compared to that it's nothing...

Before we fell out last week, my biological mother sent me an article about bipolar, saying 'I know you're not, but you have a lot of similarities with this person'. I don't want her to be right

I definitely have borderline traits, as agreed by a couple of healthcare professionals, but not enough for a diagnosis. Can bpd give a bit of mania here or there, does anyone know?

[feralkittymom]

It sounds rather manic, but my understanding of such episodes is that during one, there's no awareness of the depressive experience in the past. Maybe you're not classically bi-polar, but subject to reactive rapid cycling of mood? Definitely seems like a pattern worth talking to someone about.

You sound rather rational for it to be bipolar.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Thanks. Yes. It seems like it needs some discussion then. I guess there is a whole spectrum of mood disorders that come into the 'not otherwise specified' category.

My ex used to say I fit the bill for ADHD too when I was in this sort of mood, which was quite a lot during the time I was with him - there seems to be some crossover in how mania and ADHD look at times? The pdoc I am trying to get to see has a special interest in ADHD so maybe I could check it out with him.

Thanks guys.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by _Mouse

You sound rather rational for it to be bipolar.

Well, believe me I don't want to be bipolar. But my understanding is that bipolar 2 doesn't get the massive mania, but rather a kind of muted hypomanic state, so I did wonder, and am just musing really.

I find it difficult to know how to prioritize in my therapy sessions so it's helpful to bounce ideas around here and see what comes out as being important.

[ThingWithFeathers]

Sometimes, when you've been through an extremely emotional time (like you did on the weekend), you can feel really alive or calm afterwards. It's like the contrast is visible right there in the way you feel. Just an idea.

[bipolar angel]

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

Well, believe me I don't want to be bipolar. But my understanding is that bipolar 2 doesn't get the massive mania, but rather a kind of muted hypomanic state, so I did wonder, and am just musing really.

I find it difficult to know how to prioritize in my therapy sessions so it's helpful to bounce ideas around here and see what comes out as being important.

Indestructable, as was said, def talk to your t and md. I would suggest a psychiatrist, if u don't see one. It was a psychiatrist who finally dx my mild bipolar^othetwise not specific. Pmd, t, and psych md at the time-16yrs ago-all missed the bipolar-so I tried many many antidepress over 2yrs ans had many many side effects and was only a little better. All the meds I'm on now,-I manage a family, work 2jobs. Having depression/anxiety now from recent events but if I had not already been on meds wuld have been much worse.***of course I am not an md but def get evaluated. Many people with hypomania get irritable, have troublesleeping have anxiiety only seem slightly hyper, can have fast high pressure speech.good luck

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by ThingWithFeathers

Sometimes, when you've been through an extremely emotional time (like you did on the weekend), you can feel really alive or calm afterwards. It's like the contrast is visible right there in the way you feel. Just an idea.

In an ideal world, this is what I want to be true. I am feeling stark contrast, admittedly not in a calm way.

Originally Posted by bipolar angel

Indestructable, as was said, def talk to your t and md. I would suggest a psychiatrist, if u don't see one. It was a psychiatrist who finally dx my mild bipolar^othetwise not specific. Pmd, t, and psych md at the time-16yrs ago-all missed the bipolar-so I tried many many antidepress over 2yrs ans had many many side effects and was only a little better. All the meds I'm on now,-I manage a family, work 2jobs. Having depression/anxiety now from recent events but if I had not already been on meds wuld have been much worse.***of course I am not an md but def get evaluated. Many people with hypomania get irritable, have troublesleeping have anxiiety only seem slightly hyper, can have fast high pressure speech.good luck

I'm glad you have found success now

I have an appointment with a pdoc next week, though I can't be very frank with her because we also cross paths in our professional lives, so I am not comfortable. But am trying to book another appointment with a different pdoc where I can lay all my troubles out bluntly.

[The_little_didgee]

I don't think normal 'good' mood wouldn't be that extreme and abrupt. I could be wrong though.

People with untreated ADHD can definitely appear to have mild mania. What makes them different is their apparent mania is always there. Mania is usually episodic.

Could your recent OD have caused euphoria? Sometimes when people self-harm they get high off of it.

Apparently there is a type of mania that is characterized by dysphoria (mixed state). I did not know this until recently. Irritability, agitation, suicidal ideation, paranoia, impulsiveness, anxiety, racing thoughts and pressured speech are some symptoms and signs. I went through something like this (minus the suicidal ideation) and it wasn't very pleasant.

I would definitely discuss this with your therapist.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Thank you. It's definitely heading up the list for needing discussion alongside my weekend disaster.

*Trigger* for female bodily function stuff, and reference to abuse.

I'm still in a good, upbeat place, but almost had a total meltdown over nothing. My period has arrived and my vaginismus decided to kick in with gusto as I was inserting a tampon. The pain was really distressing and I nearly panicked, feeling instantly a whole wave of helplessness and depression linked to memories. But was able to reason with myself and sort it out, and calm down.

I just seem so ****ing keyed up. Like a really sensitive horse, fine and calm but then something happens and its 0 to 100 in a flash.

[IndestructibleGirl]

I'm also slightly worried by the time I get to my session tomorrow I will have gone numb again, and this will all seem like an unimportant memory.

I feel like the question I need to discuss with my therapist is - maybe this is just what it is like to not be numb, and to be tuned into a whole spectrum of feelings, and I'm just not used to it. I feel like I have two settings: mostly emotionally numb, or over-sensitive where everything is insanely painful or good like today/ yesterday but I am pretty wired.

Just noting that down here, so I can access it before I go in tomorrow. If I write in down in a private notebook I can tear it up and pretend it doesn't exist if I want, and I don't trust myself not to do that right now. I am anticipating a bit of shame after I come out of this mood/ state, for being a fusspot.

[HazelGirl]

Yes, the ADHD/mania thing is very similar.

I have ADHD, MDD, and PTSD. My father had bipolar disorder. I have almost all the symptoms of bipolar disorder at various points, but they don't fit the cycling patterns of bipolar disorder. They're from the different disorders I do have (ADHD - hyperactivity, anxiety, rush of activity and thoughts, etc...; PTSD - mood swings, paranoia, extreme edginess, etc...; depression - well...duh, haha). It makes it hard to know if I have the beginning stages of bipolar disorder or whether I just have my other symptoms.

A big thing to consider is that ADHD is constant. It doesn't come and go, although there are days where it's harder to manage. It's not "cyclic" like bipolar disorder.

Narcissism, bpd all have mood swings. It can be as simple and as complicated as justa ffleeing of emotions.

[peaches100]

My husband has rapid cycling bipolar disorder. It does not follow a 6-months up and 6-months down pattern. He is usually hypomanic (exhibiting bipolar mania symptoms but not to the point that his behavior would be considered extreme). People who don't know him well would think he was just very sociable and talkative. However, his family members can tell when he is manic. The typical signs are: much more energetic, talks more, wants to constantly be "on the go," feels sociable, very humerous, feels strong, etc. Also gets critical and nit picky about other people's mistakes, and tends to get "lecturey" about things.

He normally stays this way for about 2 months, and then he has about 10 days of depressive-like symptoms. Then back to hypomania again. But in some cases, he can be up and down within a single day.

This type of bipolar is harder to diagnose.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Thanks guys.

There are so many variations of everything, such intricacies..I suppose this highlights the need for really good pdocs who know their onions.

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

A big thing to consider is that ADHD is constant. It doesn't come and go, although there are days where it's harder to manage. It's not "cyclic" like bipolar disorder.

I wonder though if in some cases it is possible for depression or ptsd to 'dampen down' ADHD at times? Like they way depression can make you just want to sleep, or ptsd to dissociate.

Did you ever try ritalin or modafinil for ADHD, Hazel Girl?

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by _Mouse

Narcissism, bpd all have mood swings. It can be as simple and as complicated as justa ffleeing of emotions.

The emotional swings seen in PDs usually have an interpersonal trigger. They don't last very long and recede once the interpersonal stressor has been resolved. It all revolves around relationships and identity.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

Thanks guys.

There are so many variations of everything, such intricacies..I suppose this highlights the need for really good pdocs who know their onions.


I wonder though if in some cases it is possible for depression or ptsd to 'dampen down' ADHD at times? Like they way depression can make you just want to sleep, or ptsd to dissociate.

Did you ever try ritalin or modafinil for ADHD, Hazel Girl?

No, I know for a fact that my ADHD symptoms are still present while depressed or while dealing with PTSD symptoms. My ADHD actually can make the others worse because I obsessively ruminate on negative thoughts. And no, I don't take any stimulants. I have dealt with it my whole life without them and have learned how to handle it. I also have a relatively "high functioning" (for lack of a better word) form of ADHD, that makes me more perfectionistic and obsessive than lethargic and easily unmotivated.

[HazelGirl]

Also, ADHD is what allows me to continue to function while extremely depressed. Most people when they're depressed as I have gotten in the past lie in bed all day and don't move or function. I still got up, went to work, ate food, etc... because the ADHD kept me moving and functioning.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Hazel Girl, I am sorry to hear the ADHD further complicates the depression and ptsd for you. That sounds very difficult.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

Also, ADHD is what allows me to continue to function while extremely depressed. Most people when they're depressed as I have gotten in the past lie in bed all day and don't move or function. I still got up, went to work, ate food, etc... because the ADHD kept me moving and functioning.

See, I can identify with this to a large degree. Something keeps me stubbornly ploughing on and surging forward, and has done for a very long time. So I could say it feels like depression caused by circumstances, layered on top of an organic ADHD that I just would have had anyway.

But I could just as easily say it might be bipolar with mood swings happening and pulling my strings like a puppet unknown to me. Or - as I've thought for a while now - ptsd along with borderline traits that flare up and down and make things harder/ easier accordingly.

I reeeeeallly need a good pdoc. I can't work out where one symptom ends and another begins.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

See, I can identify with this to a large degree. Something keeps me stubbornly ploughing on and surging forward, and has done for a very long time. So I could say it feels like depression caused by circumstances, layered on top of an organic ADHD that I just would have had anyway.

But I could just as easily say it might be bipolar with mood swings happening and pulling my strings like a puppet unknown to me. Or - as I've thought for a while now - ptsd along with borderline traits that flare up and down and make things harder/ easier accordingly.

I reeeeeallly need a good pdoc. I can't work out where one symptom ends and another begins.

And that's why a good Pdoc is so essential.

[BlessedRhiannon]

So, I'm not by any means an expert - I can only share my own experiences and what my p-doc has told me.

After seeing my current (and very experienced) therapist for 5 years, and my excellent pdoc for almost 2 years, they both finally diagnosed me having bipolar. The complication with my diagnosis, and what made it so difficult to identify is that I've never really experienced a true manic or even hypomanic state in the sense of feeling really good as you're describing. I've always gone from a deep depression to a few days or even just hours of "normal" to a mixed state where I am severely anxious. So, I presented as having anxiety, not bipolar, and for the longest time, both my pdoc and t did not feel that I had bipolar...until my latest episode. My latest mixed state episode was so much more severe than anything I've experienced. I was agitated, anxious, paranoid, suicidal, irritable. I felt scattered, I couldn't focus on anything. I wasn't sleeping, but also wasn't tired. I wasn't eating, and wasn't hungry. When I put it all together and shared it with my T, she asked me to make an appointment with my pdoc asap. My pdoc, after an hour long appointment said that he things I have bipolar disorder. I just don't present in the "usual manner."

As my pdoc and I talked, he said that the reality is that very rarely does a person present as a textbook case. You have to look at the cycle of behaviors and look at the big picture of all the symptoms put together - both the highs and the lows and how they change over time.

For me, the biggest indicator that my pdoc's diagnosis of bipolar was how normal, how leveled out I started feeling once he got me on the proper medications.

So - all that to say, a lot of what you're describing does sound hypomanic. I would definitely talk to your pdoc about it. Also, my experience has been that the longer you go untreated, the more severe the highs and lows become.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Thank you. More food for thought.

I definitely have noticed a pattern, in that it's every two weeks I get a bad dip. I only get an upswing like this maybe once every month, or two months, the other times I recover from the horrendous bad in a more subdued way. And the dips are certainly getting worse, which I had put down to thawing out courtesy of therapy and actually feeling more emotions.

I had shrugged off the regularity of the two week pattern as hormonal and being more susceptible to getting upset mid-cycle and with pms, which could be a factor I'm sure.