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  #26  
Old Nov 04, 2014, 11:53 PM
Tangerine87 Tangerine87 is offline
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Thank you everyone for responding to this thread. It was helpful. To clarify, my suicidal ness isn't like a plan or active thoughts. It's more like when a person has bad diabetes and they purposely eat more sugar to hurt themselves. That is what I do. I don't want to give away too many details as I don't want t to find me here. T was mad that I was doing this bad behavior but t has known for a long time. It's not new information.

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  #27  
Old Nov 04, 2014, 11:55 PM
Tangerine87 Tangerine87 is offline
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Originally Posted by Froggy57 View Post
I apologize if my use of the word "abusive" has offended you. I am in no way judging you. I can only speak from my own experience, and I wouldn't want to project that experience onto you. I actually don't even know what it is that you intended to do, but I gathered from your therapist's response that it was in the realm of self-harm or suicidality, or maybe you are using and then my advise may be different.

If this is self-harm then this was my thought; in the two years that I was suicidal following a breakdown, I did some things that were harmful. They produced an adrenaline rush, perhaps a boost to my neurotransmitters and the pleasure center of my brain. This is how these things can become addictive, in addition to the psychological effects they have on us. I am a strong believer that we become stuck on negative behaviors because they provide something for us that we haven't yet figured out how to get in another positive way.

At the initial time of my breakdown, I was being treated for Major Depression with antidepressants that I wouldn't find out for another fifteen years was actually bipolar II disorder. The worse I got, because antidepressants alone will drive someone bipolar into a mixed or manic state, the more medications were given to me, including stimulants that made my bipolar disorder explode. I have hypomania, and the absence of mania made it difficult to diagnose me as bipolar when the irritability, and agitation could just be seen as symptoms of depression and PTSD. It was missed that I would spend days before my breakdown happily completing projects with an abnormal energy level because I thought that was happiness, that it was normal, and I didn't seem to need the sleep. I didn't report this behavior except to say that I was having a good week, but my hypomania is usually more of the irritable type. Part of my despair was that I thought I would never experience that "happiness" again. I couldn't get anyone to hear me about the antidepressants, and a new therapist insisted I stay on these medications, or she wouldn't work with me. This kept me in a mixed state for two years because I hadn't learned to be the leader in my own recovery yet. I was STUCK, and I became addicted to self-harm for the little bit of adrenaline rush that it would give to me; to feel better for just a moment was better than my HELL. Those behaviors create a new hell, however, as you are now experiencing with your own therapist. I should have gotten another new therapist, but I was in no shape having just ended a ten year relationship with my first therapist. I did, in my first hospital stay, receive a bipolar diagnosis, but I went into denial when my original therapist of ten years didn't agree. Every pdoc after continued to treat me for Major Depression. My original therapist of ten years and I ended because HUGE mistakes were made. It wasn't the mistakes that ended our relationship, but my therapist's inability to have the conversations we needed to be having over those mistakes. She was a wonderfully compassionate therapist despite the HUGE mistakes. I was devastate by our ending, but I value all that we did accomplish in our ten years together while I forgive her for being human and having a human response to me.

I happen to work with individuals whom I take on their own psychiatric appointments. There I met my pdoc to be... I shared with her that I needed to go on short-term disability. I had already tried everything I could think to do, and I was just going deeper and deeper into despair.

While on sick leave, she called me out of the blue to see if there was anything she could do. That day changed my life. I had been through so much in the previous years that I started by being incredibly honest with everything I did, everything I thought, and everything I felt great shame over. I wanted to give her a way out or to know exactly what she was taken on, as well as to protect myself from any more negative experiences. My self-esteem was in the gutter, no sewer. I presented with Major Depression. First one trial of antidepressants - felt horrible, agitated, irritable, increase in suididal thoughts. Second trial of antidepressants - felt horrible, agitated, irritable, increase in suicidal thoughts. Third trial - you can guess. Just three months after sixteen long years to be told that I needed to be taken off all antidepressants and put on a mood stabilizer, that I was bipolar. This time I embraced the diagnosis that gave me some peace of mind that life could be better.

I learned to be incredibly honest about myself, and to communicate my needs effectively.

This is my incredibly shortened version of why I would want to offer you advice. I learned a lot during those sixteen years of HELL, and I would want to try to shorten anyone else's hell if I had some advice to offer that could be helpful. Ultimately, we are responsible for our own recovery, and it is up to you if you want to hear what I have to say or if you want to focus on a single word. I am sorry for the length of this post.

First, recovery is not possible if we are not incredibly honest about ourselves, our behaviors, or our needs. Personally, as an adult, I was too ashamed of my own needs from a past wounded child, but unless we start exactly were we are at the present moment, we cannot move forward.

Recovery is not possible if we do not learn to communicate effectively with our helpers, but first we need to communicate effectively with ourselves. Denial is a wonderful coping mechanism to which I held on tightly.

Second, recovery is NEVER possible if we remain stuck on SAFETY. Safety needs to be addressed first. If there is a relapse, then you have to get up and start again. If you cannot be honest with the above, you will not be able to figure out why you continue to relapse.

Repeat

I can only speak for MYSELF. I was sexually abused by four people before the age of five. I was emotionally abused by my mother who was never treated for her own mental health issues. I didn't even know about her trauma background until I was an adult, most of which I learned after her death. In hindsight, now that I understand bipolar disorder, she had the same type. I was physically abused, emotionally as well by my father. I actually consider myself lucky. I have heard far worse stories than my own.

I had nobody to teach me healthy coping skills. Emotions were not spoken about, and usually when expressed brought on negative consequences. I did the best I could, and when I had my breakdown, I had to go back to square one and parent myself.

So here is the deal. I was STUCK in HELL. When I finally received the help I needed, it required me to look at what I was doing to MYSELF, to that little girl inside of me that had gone through all of this STUFF. I was literally, physically beating her up. I don't know of another word for it but ABUSE. I am speaking for myself. Like I said, I don't know what self-harm you are intending or have done.

I offered you a way to look at what you are doing. If you would do whatever you are doing to another child, and you are OK with doing whatever you are doing to yourself to another child, and if doing this to another child would not get you placed in jail, then of course, I would apologize for using the word "abuse". If you think your actions on some random child would get you thrown in jail, then start being honest with yourself. It is abuse.

I am NOT JUDGING YOU. You can take what I have to offer or leave it. I am just a random person in cyber space. If I am not helpful, then let what I have to say go.

The written word is sometimes difficult to interpret without tone of voice and facial expressions. Again, I am not being judgmental.
Understood. I was offended at first but after you clarified I didn't feel upset about it anymore. Thank you for replying.
  #28  
Old Nov 04, 2014, 11:57 PM
Tangerine87 Tangerine87 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utterly View Post
Mentioning suicidal intent is seen by a therapist as an aggressive move (even though it might be just honesty.) The therapist distancing you is pretty common. Just understand that if he perceives it as a gesture that's trying to manipulate him then the appropriate response is to not engage in that game.

I would ask him very directly if he thinks you're trying to manipulate him with the revelation. Tell him that's not your intention. Also mention that you feel a distancing and its hurtful.

Just say whats on your mind here, next session. It will be okay one way or the other.
It wasn't like I said I'm going to do x and x. It's more of self harming behaviors that I wish cause me death. That's what I communicated to t not of something I'm going to do. It's like somebody with liver problems who drinks because they don't mind if they die. Same story.
  #29  
Old Nov 05, 2014, 12:02 AM
Utterly Utterly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
"It should be mentioned that the majority of therapists today use non-transferential techniques, like CBT, and have much less practice in detecting countertransference, and if you can't detect it, the feelings evoked will shape therapy. Although its part of the curriculum, theory alone is insufficient to teach something as experential as transference."

I have not found this to be true concerning the majority of therapists across the board.
Here's an illustrative quote from "Countertransference and the Therapeutic Relationship: A Cognitive Perspective"

"Despite the importance of identifying, understanding, monitoring, and responding to countertransference reactions in the therapeutic process, it is an area that has received relatively little attention in the cognitive therapy literature."

Historically, transference-countertransference has been an essential non-factor in cognitive behavioral approaches. Tradition is a really strong factor even now.

I'm glad you've had introspective therapists but the simple fact that the cognitive method doesn't use transference, means they look for it less, and thus are less good at detecting it personally.
  #30  
Old Nov 05, 2014, 12:04 AM
stopdog stopdog is offline
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I don't find, in my area, that cbt is the most common school of therapy.
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  #31  
Old Nov 05, 2014, 12:22 AM
Utterly Utterly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
I don't find, in my area, that cbt is the most common school of therapy.
That's interesting, but maybe a little unusual? Cognitive approaches basically exploded in popularity from the 70s onwards. Also, lately the big thing is brief therapy techniques which don't lend themselves to transference.
  #32  
Old Nov 05, 2014, 12:24 AM
Utterly Utterly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangerine87 View Post
It wasn't like I said I'm going to do x and x. It's more of self harming behaviors that I wish cause me death. That's what I communicated to t not of something I'm going to do. It's like somebody with liver problems who drinks because they don't mind if they die. Same story.
Right. I'm guessing the thought of what could happen were more in his mind than what was happening. Maybe he was "reading-between-the-lines" when it wasn't necessary to do so.
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