[Partless]

I'm talking about mom. As people who have read my posts know, mom has borderline and narcissistic traits, but she does not believe she needs any help. She has gone for therapy before and once took antidepressants for a month but stopped both.

This is how it works in my family: My sister, because of her history of multiple lengthy hospitalizations for being suicidal, is, despite her seeming stability, in a fragile state. When mom feels ignored or doesn't get what she wants, she decided to annoy my sister a bit. In fact she annoys everybody, including me (like reject me, ignore me, not call me, play favorites, etc) which is infuriating enough but my sister is what gets me. My sister lives in a sort of a nursing facility and is heavily medicated. Mom visits her sometimes to "help clean her house." However, she has a very powerful way of influencing my sister and making her anxious, when she goes over, if she feeling pissy. She knows how to push her buttons.

We have, as a family, visits with my sister as well. It's particularly tense for me because I have PTSD as a direct result of the whole thing with my sister. So of all my triggers, that's literally my biggest trigger when she doesn't look stable. So if I've set boundaries with mom and refused to do certain things when she called me and I know dad also did the same, she decides to go and "help" my sister clean up and of course my dad is more than glad to have her not nag him so he gives her a ride and leaves her there for a few hours. When mom is that angry, I personally think she dissociates a lot of times. Like she's kind of aware that her actions are hurtful to my sister, she just can't control herself.

Not surprisingly when we go over later that week and I see my sister is agitated and looks a bit like in that state she was a few years ago, I get triggered badly (last time this happened I could not leave home for a week and was sick to my stomach the whole time, could not sleep at all for two nights straights, so naturally I do everything possible to avoid this trigger).

Because mom's ashamed of my sister's situation, she has cut off all family relations we had with relatives (which came through her, it was her sisters, as my dad's family live far away). So I feel this sense of isolation.

When I had mentioned this to my last therapist, she said I'm not responsible for either mom or sister, that they're all adults. I said but I can't take my sister getting hospitalized again, I swear to God I can't! What if she kills herself this time? My therapist said there is nothing I can do about it and all I'm doing is torturing myself and stopping myself from living.

Yes, I have no friends, I rarely leave home, I'm constantly obsessed with watching mom and what she will do this time if I tell her no about something. I told my therapist that my dad is so emotionally distant and only if he was nicer to her...and again my therapist said that's not my place to do anything, people are who they are, she could divorce my dad, it's not my place to say anything.

It's such a weird thing, I feel both powerful enough in that if I keep mom happy then she won't bug my sister but at the same time I feel so powerless because I feel I have to keep mom happy. I really do care about my family and grew up differently from some people who were distant from their family even as a child. But I'm also very afraid of bad things happening and it's hard for me to think straight. Do you guys understand my situation or can sympathize, and if so, what advice do you have for me, should I convince mom of needing therapy or should I just focus on myself and my life only? Thank you very much.

[daisyintherain]

it's really hard

[stopdog]

This is something I rarely do - but I actually agree with the therapist on this one. I do not believe anyone can force save any other adult. They are making choices and so are you, in my opinion. Their choices are theirs to make and one does better to focus on ones' own self. I do not believe this is the same as not caring about others. One can both care and realize that the choices others make are their responsibility just as your own choices are yours.

[brokenwarrior]

I believe that you cannot convince someone that they need therapy. Trust me, I have tried for many years with my dad. They need to come to terms with that on their own. If they do not want help or are not ready for therapy it won't work.

[justdesserts]

I am sorry this causes you so much pain. I agree with Stopdog and brokenwarrior. I lived a life in the distant past trying, begging, pleading, blackmailing, etc. someone to get them to get the help they desperately needed. I tried to get them involuntarily committed more than once. It never did any good. If someone doesn't want help or doesn't want to change, nothing you can do can help them, no matter how much you may love them. I'm so sorry this is hurting you so.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I have tried to convince my mom to go to therapy also. It hasn't worked. Her doctor has tried too. Her insurance will pay, but she saus she can't afford the copay or the time off.

I have tried to convince my step-dad to go to GA and my mom to Gam-anon. They used the excuse time and money. So I printed out times of groups on the weekend and proved they were free. Didn't work.

I'm trying to convince my fiance to go to therapy for his anger, stress, and communication. He did go to an anger management group for a little while until they had a session including spouses and I found out the guy was a quack Now I'm trying to get him to go to individual therapy. My T and Pdoc want him in therapy too. So far it's a no go

Many people have misconceptions about therapy. Many are also okay living in their current state because it's familiar. The only person you can change is yourself.

My T gave me this advice: to continue to work on myself. Either the person will see the change in you and will want to grow with you or you will grow apart. Either way, at least you will be taking care of yourself.

Ditto everyone else on the inability to change someone else, particularly when what your mother is doing to manipulate others is working out so well for her. Focusing on yourself as an independent person, not so enmeshed with your mother, will help you be able to breathe--not right away, but eventually, the more you can get some emotional distance. I say this because I have been through it, and continue to reset those boundaries. It gets easier.

[Partless]

Thank you everybody, I agree with much of what you said. I think we sometimes want so badly for things to work out, for people to be happy and not suffer (including ourselves), but that's where acceptance comes in, knowing when my efforts are not helpful and also when it's really not my place anyways.

When I was young, I used to think that injustice and pain and suffering was only limited to strangers, some people miles away from me in hospitals, in war zones, in prisons. I used to try to stay away from all that stuff, from news, from learning more about it because it made me feel powerless. I was happy that I had my family. But I think even as a child, I knew my family had problems. It is only when my sister was hospitalized that I could not longer deny it. I was faced with all those bad things, right up close, no place to hide. It's like hearing about children or animals who are abused. You read the stats, it's awful but easy to forget. But then you someone abused right in front of your eyes and you can't do anything about it (legally or socially or whatever reason), and that hurts.

The other day my roommate was watching the nature channel and I told him to change it. But then I told him to get it back. This is life I thought. Lion eating a gazelle. I should harden myself. Life is violence, powerful and powerless. That's nature. People are the same. Why expect more from them? Why expect that their having a choice or consciousness or freedom of decision means they decide in a way to reduce suffering. They may. But they may not.

[harvest moon]

Partless, this is my story. I can't remember a single a day in my life that my mother wasn't depressed, manipulative, lost in her dissatisfaction, afraid to live, ill etc etc. She is an extremely clever, sensitive and talented woman, but did absolutely nothing with her life; she just survived. I'm an only child. She has been verbally, emotionally and physically abusive while I was growing up, and couldn't accept me as a different person. Only as a projection of herself, always filling me with guilt every time I tried to do things differently or be more carefree and liberate myself.

Long story short: My mother was the one who first saw my T. They had 5 sessions and she dropped him, because she thought there was nothing wrong with her. Truth is she has had a severe chronic depression all her life, she has to take antidepressants, and she has spent her whole life punishing herself, feeling an extremely guilt and distrust toward a happy and creative life. She took antidepressants for a couple of months and when they started balancing some sleeping trouble she had, she immediately stopped them and sank again. The end.

I spent literally my whole life keeping my mother company in depression. I seriously thought that this is my life purpose: never deviate from the road she walked on. After 5 years in therapy, I still get the urge to try and explain things to her for the 100000th time in hope she would feel better, get inspired to want something better for herself and stop punishing herself. Nothing ever changes. Ever. Just me getting more and more hurt and drawn into this dead end way of relating. I still feel as if I have no right to get out of depression, unless she does first. It's a torture but I want to beat this.

So... I know how it is. I really do. It is extremely hard to say to yourself 'let her be. It is her choice to live like that, but I can do things differently'. What is even harder for me is not to feel guilty and not to regress every time I try to escape this way of living, which is the only one I've known and allowed to myself up until now.

i tried... but in the end they have to do it for themselves. only so much you can do.