[WinterRose]

Wondering what you all think of this? One author spoke about "the particular difficulties women face in working in a traditional structure of psychotherapy-the desire by both patients and therapists for an authentic and enduring connection in a structure that upholds distance and teaches the necessity of giving up that desire.” Quite a conflict going on there. I know I've felt it. What should the therapeutic relationship look like? When is distance appropriate and when is connection important? Can you have both in the same relationship? Just how real is the relationship with your therapist? I think it's a real relationship, but what kind of relationship is it really? So much investment is put into it on both sides - but it's meant to be temporary. Other relationships of that depth are rarely temporary. What do you think?

[(JD)]

Yes.



Sorry. But that's a good answer imo.

The therapeutic relationship is not like any other, and shouldn't be. When therapists engage in dual relationships the patient suffers, imo.

The relationship is built slowly...with each step being defined by the material covered? It is a very real relationship, but because we are needing it to be so many things our present life does not give, by that very nature is has to be different imo.

Not friend, nor spouse, nor sibling, nor parent, nor boss, nor employee, nor neighbor...yet some of all of this ... no other category but "therapist." IMO.

[SecretGarden]

<font color="blue">Very interesting post. I will follow with interest and possible further comment but you are both right. It always is amazing the dance that goes on in that room.....and continues outside of the room as the relationship continues psychologically.

</font>

[lauren_helene]

Can I let you know tomorrow? Giggle. I have my session at 11:30 and I have some of the same questions you do and I've been there a year now.

My first thought is that it should be real to the people in the room but appropriate at the same time. If that makes sense....

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
WinterRose said:
So much investment is put into it on both sides - but it's meant to be temporary.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Temporary... ugh... I don't even have the energy to think about therapeutic relationships anymore tonight... I would to think about and answer this question in depth though. All I can say is that connection and distance can very much happen at the same time. Even though I am thinking angry thoughts in regards to my T tonight (based on the end of this evening's session-- see my other post), I can say that there is a deep connection there, but at the same time a great distance because of the one-sidedness. This is especially true in my case, as my T does not self-disclose. So it puts him even more at a distance, he is more a figure to me than a person at times. The distance also lends itself readily to my idealization of him. However, at the same time, I have never felt a connection like this before with a T. I don't think the distance plays a part in that. It depends on the two people involved in the relationship, just like any relationship. I had a T in the past who did self-disclose-- our connection was not like the one I have with my current T. In addition, I don't like self-disclosure and I absolutely don't benefit from it. So yes, I think the connection and the distance can exist at the same time, and I would go as far as to say that they feed off of each other, both in conflict and in benefit.

Once you get me talking, I can't stop...

[purplemoon]

I think my relationship is distant. I think T is pushing to move it a little closer and I am not sure what to do with that. Although I guess if I keep him at a distance it won't do me much good will it? But then I wonder why get close - this is only going to end and I will be hurt and sad. Sometimes I hate this so much. I wish I didn't need it, but I do and I don't want it.

[MissCharlotte]

Hi. I am struggling with this issue in my therapy right now. Last week my T said that he thinks sometimes I have something to tell him but I hold back. I told him he was right and he asked why. I told him that sometimes I feel ashamed, which is tru but I need to tell him tomorrow that I also hold back sometimes because I feel like this is my life (not his) and I don't want to feel too dependent on him. It's such a confusing issue. Sometimes I feel so close and sometimes I feel like he is pushing me away. I actually thought of quitting after last week. I've been seeing him for 6 months and I am often nervous. He has never mentioned transference and rarely comments on the relationship. I think the fact that this is a temporary relationship is why it's so difficult to stay close.

[sunrise]

This is a very interesting issue. There is a dichotomy between the closeness we feel and how close we are allowed to be in this relationship. All my "practice" at relationships outside the therapy room did not really prepare me for the relationship with T. It is unique. I struggled early in therapy with it. Now, I feel more comfortable with it. I feel very, very close to my T, but I am comforted by the boundaries too. My T self-discloses (I demanded it from him or I wouldn't play ball) quite a bit. His therapeutic approach can accommodate that since he is humanistic (well he's really eclectic, but I see him as having a strong humanistic component). My T believes our relationship is real, and I have talked about this several times in session. He has convinced me what we have is real and authentic. Part of the discomfort came from my expectation that like "outside" relationships, I had an unconscious expectation that a relationship as deep and close as ours would develop into something more. And it doesn't. And I had to learn that this is a special relationship and doesn't follow the same path as other relationships.

One time T said to me early on "I am not going to be your friend outside of therapy nor are we going to sit here and discuss my problems." Man, I didn't even ask him for those things, and it was like a brick thrown in my face to have him say that. I remember responding in a rather snappish way, "it's hard to be confused about those issues when only one of us is paying the other $120 each time we get together." I look back on that now and laugh, but at the time it hurt. And oddly enough, we do sometimes discuss his "problems." And his triumphs too. I find it therapeutic.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
the particular difficulties women face in working in a traditional structure of psychotherapy

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
WinterRose, your quote referenced women specifically. Do you think this is less of a problem for men?

[WinterRose]

Sunrise - I'm not sure if it is more for women and less for me. I'd be interested in hearing from some men on the subject. I took the quote from A Shining Affliction because it resonated with me and it was something that I hadn't been able to articulate. I think it's something that still needs to be worked out in the profession - that dichotomy, the dilemma.

I keep arguing comments like, "I am not going to be your friend outside of therapy." I'm not sure why exactly - it just seems so cold and compartmentalized. I have a problem with the idea that if I saw my therapist or psychiatrist on the street they wouldn't say hi to me and be friendly. And privately, someday, if/when I finish therapy, I'd like to be able to be friendly with that person - it's not unheard of. Well I do have boundary issues. Although - I don't think that applies here. Even if it does, I'd still argue over this. You don't just throw relationships or people away. Sorry, soap box, strong feelings ....

[Crystal88]

I told my counselor about this question and she said that lots of times clients and therapist "visit" this because good therapy is when a client and therapist are close enough so that the client feels they can talk to the therapist but yet the therapist remains objective and on the sidelines allowing the client to solve their own problems. she said in the issue of having friendships between the therapist and client DURING therapy here in the USA there is an ethics law that gives a specific time when the client therapist relationship is considered a friendship. it has specific guidelines and time frame where the therapist and client must not have any contact. Each state sets their own amount of time that must pass with no contact usually a year sometimes two or three.n and that here at this agency the protocal is that if a client and therapist fall into a friendship relationship during therapy the therapist must address the issue with the client and make immediate request to have the client reassigned to a new therapist in the agency or give the client information about other counseling agecys in the community. She said a therapist is supposed to remain neutral and they cant do that if they are looking at their client as a friend who they don't want to see get hurt and sometimes therapy does cause clients discomfort and mental pain when they are dealing with issues that they have previously ignored and repressed. a therapist who doesn't want to see their client in this kind of pain won't be able to do their job of making the client face their problems and take care of them. I told here it makes sense to me cause my friends would rather do things for me instead of watching me cry and get frustrated about something.

[WinterRose]

Thanks for that Crystal - it is something I had not considered.