Touch in therapy...it's gone.

Honestly it sounds like she has no clue what she is doing as far as touch goes. The emails do come across, to me, as manipulative and confusing. To just say it is a "feeling" she has is very disturbing to me. Really, really disturbing. I know therapy goes beyond science and facts and blah, blah, blah, but there should have been clearer boundaries from the beginning. This just solidifies more and more my opinion that a lot of therapists really have no idea how damaging their careless actions can be to clients.

I can understand your hurt. I am so sorry.

This is way beyond a simple mistake. Way, way beyond.

Thank you so much for this. This Email, she sent me at 2 o'clock this morning. WTH was she doing up at 2am? Not my concern. She has told me several times she's not perfect and can make mistakes. I don't see her as a perfect person. No one is. we're all gonna make mistakes....but to me, this is a big one. I told her she holds the hearts of many in her hand, and even though she keeps telling me this is MY therapy and I have the power, that's BS. SHE holds the power, and this just proves it. I'm so heartbroken. Several of you knew this would happen eventually.... I wish I hadn't let my guard down. It was too good to be true.

My T does care a great deal for me. NO doubt about it. But I asked her that too, what will change next? So I'm not accepting hugs anymore either....because those will go someday too. Then what? I haven't heard back from her......

Caring is good, but it does not always equal competence.

Hi Musinglizzy,

First, I'm SO sorry your t decided to withdraw in-session touch when you did not feel ready to give it up. I agree that it was a mistake for her to try to gradually withdraw touch and hope it wouldn't be an issue that needed explaining. (At least, that's what it seemed like her hope was). Many patients are very sensitive to the withdrawal of support and can spot even the slightest step back. So it's very important for t's to approach a discussion about any change in boundaries. I also believe it was important for her to address this subject in the session itself, not in email. (I realize you asked about it in email, but I think it would have been more appropriate for her to suggest that the two of you discuss it in person).

I'm not sure if she actually felt it was OK to not discuss it unless you brought it up -- and then to do so in email -- or if she may have been operating out of a fear of hurting your feelings if it was dealt with directly. Again, I think it was wrong of her to approach the changing of boundaries "indirectly." I'm just saying that it may indicate how much she cares about you in that she hoped her intuition and timing were correct, that you would be ready for this boundary adjustment, and that it would not become a painful issue in your therapy.

In reading her email, I thought it sounded like she cares about you very much. I know my t cares about me a lot, and I have been in therapy with her for more than 10 years, and she has never once signed an email with "love." I thought her email was worded well and noticed that she reminded you that the relationship you have with her is not casual or formulary, and that the caring is real. It didn't sound like she was taking away hugs after the sessions are over.

On the other hand, I strongly believe you two need to discuss this matter in person. I do not think it should be her "intuition" alone that determines when you are ready to give up physical comfort. Yes, she may have honed her intuition over the years, but as she has told you before, she is not perfect.

In addition, you indicated that you've only been seeing her for 10 months. That's not very long for a person who grew up without nurturing to learn how to provide it for themselves. It has taken me much longer than that to learn how to start nurturing myself.

While I understand her reasoning for why less support from her is necessary over time, my gut feeling is that you were not ready to give up that support yet. I would guess that she "jumped the gun" and began withdrawing it far too soon, before you've even finished disclosing all of the traumatic experiences you'll be needing to process in therapy with her.

My suggestion is that you resist the urge to pull away and tell her you need to talk about it with her in person. Let her know that while you realize the ultimate goal is to be able to nurture and support yourself, you are not at a point yet where you are ready for that. Also remind her that, as she has also told you in the past, you have the right to be involved in the decisions that are made about your therapy. Having something taken away from you that you need and have learned to rely on, without advance warning or any opportunity to be included in the decision, has shaken your sense of safety, and damaged your trust in the therapy relationship.

Give her a chance to see how she responds to this before making up your mind about whether to quit or not. Is she willing to discuss it with you further? Is she willing to listen to why you need her to continue this support? Is she open at all to changing her mind? If not, are there other things she could do to help you still feel close to her? Will she apologize for not having handled this differently?

The way she responds will help you decide what to do yourself. . .

Many things in therapy are decided on intuition and I don't think deciding to withhold touch after having offered it should be one of them.

I still think she is putting you in a double bind here. Effectively she is saying, "Don't be dependent, but accept that my intuition about what is helpful for you is more valid than your own judgment." Of course that is not possible to do because the essence of being independent is trusting your own judgment and making your own decisions for yourself. If she wanted to be more empowering, she could have explained why she thought it would be good for you to try alternatives to touch, and then gotten your opinion on it also and worked something out together.

If she said that she was withdrawing touch because SHE didn't feel comfortable with it for some reason, or that she was concerned about the ethical implications, that would be different (still painful.) But the fact that she unilaterally decided that you need to go without it in order to learn how to deal without it really bothers me. You're a grown up and you can decide what you want to learn and how.

Having said all that, it doesn't make me think she's a bad T, just that I disagree with her about this issue. It's possible you could really get a lot of of working through all of this with her.

Excellent points, boredporcupine.

Yes, please talk it out with T.
i think something my PrevT said applies here, "You are still working on trusting your therapist…trust is built, however, on experiences like these, as terribly vulnerable as you feel."

MusingLizzy, I feel for you so much ! I've been in that very scenario before. and BoredPorcupine, I thought your post was right on, just perfect! I'm appalled that T would make such a fast, overwhelming decision about hugging. she's read too many OLD books and not practiced enough! When a patient is used to some hugs, any change should be over a long duration of discussions, and restored if there is severe reaction to it. I've read a lot about this, and believe my opinion here is in line with modern therapy. I understand that gratifying needs weakens the transference conflicts, and that maturity is the goal, but that all should be titrated and not harsh.

I don't get it why therapists are so uptight about these things. When T is doing her job, the patient's needs will gradually mature and not need a catastrophic alteration. If that were done to me, I would get up all the strength I could (maybe not possible at that stage) and would cut out on the T just to teach her a lesson!

She isn't/wasn't taking hugs away. That was me.

ANother Email.... my opinion just doesn't matter. Her mind is made up. If my opinion can't matter in therapy, where can it? I'm supposed to see her Thursday. I'm not sure yet. May need a break. I'm utterly heartbroken. I won't start over. I won't go see anyone else. We clicked from the first session. I'm not going through this again.

Here's the latest:
I am sorry that you are in so much pain and so angry. However, these feelings are not really about any changes in your therapy. Triggered by them, yes, but the real pain and anger come from the original injuries you have suffered in your life. Yes. I have chosen to make a correction in our interactions by not sitting by you in session any more. This is, in my best clinical judgement, after 25 years in my profession, in your best interest. I know that is hard for you, but that is so. I have, and continue to give you excellent service, and huge amounts of extra time.

You have to make your own decisions about what is best for you, but I highly recommend that you move past this matter and get on with your work. You have more important things to focus on. I will continue to offer you good care if you wish, or, there are many gifted therapists in town, many better than I, and I can give you referrals any time if you wish,

In my opinion, each email your T sends sounds worse than the one before! I used to train horses, and there's a huge difference between breaking a horse and taming one. IMO this T needs a lot more training.....maybe even some "breaking' done to her!

Oh, man. I have been through this myself and was terminated (not because of a touch issue, but because I did not get better fast enough and to the therapist's liking). If she truly believes that you are reacting to core issues and not her actions, then wouldn't she need to be even that more careful not to trigger a trauma response?

I am disturbed that she would remind you of the extra time she's given you, when it has all been initiated by her. And her last email, with the reference to other therapists...just feels so heartless. There just doesn't seem to be any give on her side. I am so sorry.

(On a personal note, my current therapist and I had a rift and she offered to see me that evening to work it out. She said that if I didn't want to do that, the door was open to return at any time. No defensiveness, no threat of a referral, no throwing in my face that my past was the problem and not her. That's how a professional does it.)

Oh wow! She needs to step away from the keyboard!!! She is definitely not handling this like a therapist with 25 years of experience. I'm sorry, musinglizzy, this must be so painful and just downright wrong. If you are thinking that you're going to go back and at least have a session in person to decided what you want to do from here on, I think it might be helpful to write her an email and politely ask her to not email any more until you decide what you want to do. Again, I'm so sorry it's turned out this way.

Feankly I would be pissed to pay the therapist one more time to go in and quit or clarify her nonsense.

Thank you for all the support. I feel like.... well, I don't know. devastated isn't even the word. As if I wasn't depressed before.... it feels way beyond that now. With her last Email, I just asked WHY. I want to know why. (it's obvious I did or said something or acted in some way for her to take this away from me.) She says no, but that's NOT true. Something I did or said changed her perspective on things. And I want to know what.

I agree. She sounds more and more incompetent with each email.

Just got another one, responding to my question WHY. She never should have started to begin with. I have a possible EFFING DIVORCE I'm considering. I'm sure I could use that extra support then. Oh well.... (I don't get the "red herring" comment. What does that mean?) BTW, I asked her to sit by me the first time. ONCE. It was like the first time I let loose and cried. Her reply? "I was just going to." I have not asked her since...she offered. And it was more than half a dozen times. BTW, I think I will delete this thread later this evening.

here it is....
Physical comfort is not part of psychotherapy, (AKA talk therapy). It is beyond the healthy boundaries of the relationship, it is confusing and sets up unrealistic expectations. Early on in our work together, you asked me to sit by you. After some thought, I did, because I felt it might be the only way to help you feel safe and comfortable enough for us to be able to work together. Over the next 8 months I did that again, maybe half a dozen times, when I felt you could not weather your emotions in any other way. After 10 months, I feel that the consistency of my availability to you, the strength of our connection, and the trust between us is sufficient for me to return to the appropriate standard roles of purely verbal work. Period. End of story. I cannot read more emails about this right now. I don't have the time. You have to make your own decisions based on our ample conversation. This is a red herring.

WHen I asked her why she couldn't discuss this with me (prior to making her decision) her reply was "because that's my job."

A red herring I think meaning something you are throwing out as a problem to avoid the real problem.

Screw that-a client gets to talk about something as much as they need to. Again and again and agian if they choose. It is your time that you paid for. The fact that she thinks it has been discussed enough is not the point. I would keep talking about it until I did not want to any more. The therapist does not get the deciding vote on that for me.

I agree. As lonng as the emails are paid for as part of therapy you can bring it up every dang time if you want to.

I would send regular mail. I am not a huge fan of email. I don't usually want the therapist to respond, but I do want to tell her how she fails, and in whatever detail I choose.

Musing, you did not do anything to bring this on. Please, don't take responsibility for this.

I am so angry at your T on your behalf! I'm surprised her ego can fit through her office door! It is pure arrogance to say that she always knows best, and it is not worth discussing your therapy with you because she knows more about what is good for you than you do. That is pure bullocks. You have only been in therapy 10 months, you are considering a divorce, and you have not even disclosed all of your trauma. How could this possibly be the right time for you to need less support?! I cannot imagine a truly skilled T making all of these decisions without you or pushing you in this way when you have not even gotten to the bottom of things yet. I know it took me 3 years to finish disclosing things to my T!! She has also not taken touch away; she believes that consistency is important and would never change things without discussing it with me first. I think it would be hard to get anywhere with your T because she has made it clear that she does not value-- or even want-- your opinion or feedback on things. She has even tried to tell you what YOUR reaction and your anger are "really" about! How condescending! I would not personally want to work with a T who gave me so little credit. After only 10 months, how could she possibly know more about you than you do? It makes absolutely no sense. I don't think she knows how incompetent she is being in this situation. I truly hope that you get the support and respect you deserve in therapy-- with her or with another T. You are dealing with so much right now, and you deserve some help and comfort in getting through it.

Stop dog I so envy you... I need some lessons from you!

WOW! She is all kinds of something! I understand the heartache you are feeling. Therapy should be a collaboration. T and client should work together. Your T seems to have her own agenda, and it's all at your expense.

If she is only a "talk therapist," she should have been clear about that from the get go. I wonder if she had some counter transference with you and she couldn't handle it. At any rate, there are a lot of great therapists out there. Don't let one that may not be a good fit for you deter you from continuing your quest to heal!