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  #26  
Old Mar 23, 2015, 01:50 PM
Anonymous43207
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My t never said "I love you" but she has more than once talked about there being a certain kind of love in the therapeutic relationship. Perhaps it needs its own word.
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  #27  
Old Mar 23, 2015, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by artemis-within View Post
My t never said "I love you" but she has more than once talked about there being a certain kind of love in the therapeutic relationship. Perhaps it needs its own word.
Sliding scale? Oh, that's 2 words ;-))))
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  #28  
Old Mar 23, 2015, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by artemis-within View Post
My t never said "I love you" but she has more than once talked about there being a certain kind of love in the therapeutic relationship. Perhaps it needs its own word.
Somewhere I read that it can be called "therapy love." I told my T that and she liked it. Then, in the next week, several tragedies happened to friends, and so many people are seriously ill. Life is short. I said "love is love" and apparently T agreed.
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  #29  
Old Mar 23, 2015, 02:50 PM
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I'm leery of the word love in t anyway but one reason I'm particularly leery is that my last therapy ended way before I actually left because of some kind of (non-erotic) countertransference. Maternal I think. It worked out in the end because new T's style is a much better fit therapy-wise but I'm still gunshy of countertransference.
  #30  
Old Mar 23, 2015, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by rainbow8 View Post
I'm not sure I can explain why I want my T to love me, but I do. I think it has to do with my unmet infant needs. She represents a mother figure and the transference is such that the infant and child parts of me want love from her.

For most of my therapy, my T never used the word "love" except once when she asked what the child part needed. I said "for you to tell her you love her." So T said " I love her."

A couple of months ago I wrote "I love you" in an email to my T. I meant that I think she's very special and I DO in some sense feel that. It's always been hard for me to express love to anyone except my kids. I was surprised when she emailed back "sending love to you." She never wrote that before. We talked about it at my next session and she repeated that she does feel love for me, love that really means deep caring, not romantic love.

I said "I love you" directly in another session, but I know she wouldn't say the words directly to me. I mentioned in my last session that I wish she could sign her emails "Love, T" which to me is nice, like others who care about me, write. I didn't think she would, but she did.

I think it's good if T and client understand what the word means when they use it. I love my T in many ways, some is like a child loves her mother, but one way is because she's such a good person. I told her that. She loves me like a T loves a client. I think she's willing to use the word because it helps me internalize her caring, but if she didn't feel it at all, she wouldn't say it. Sorry if I wrote too much in my answer!
Not at all, I appreciate the thoroughness! It helps put it in perspective. Thank you for being so forthcoming as to explain especially about something so personal.
  #31  
Old Mar 23, 2015, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by hankster View Post
Well its not my car that im bringing in to my t, its my carcass! And its been left out in the emotional cold by itself for too long. So yeah i want my t to tell me he is going to treat it/me with tender loving care. Thats what my carcass needs. Not a squirt of wd-40.
But WD-40 fixes everything! Except things that need duct tape instead.
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  #32  
Old Mar 23, 2015, 05:04 PM
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None of my T's had ever said ''I love you''. I wouldn't have wanted them to say that. I would like to have my current T to say to me ''I like you''.
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  #33  
Old Mar 23, 2015, 06:10 PM
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Gavinandnikki Gavinandnikki is offline
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Originally Posted by justdesserts View Post
Have you ever told them that you love them in return (i.e. I love you, too?) Would that be weird or completely in appropriate? Do you think it's possible to love your therapist in a completely therapeutic (non-transference) way?
I believe that therapeutic relationship love IS transference love.
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  #34  
Old Mar 23, 2015, 06:27 PM
Anonymous50005
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Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
I believe that therapeutic relationship love IS transference love.
I don't completely agree. I find it quite possible to have love for many different people just based on an appreciation for them as the beings they are, not mixed up in my issues or needs or history or whatever. But I can see love on different levels and different contexts. Part of the problem is that the definition of transference is different depending on who you talk to. Here is one psychology today article that discusses that problem:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...e-transference

This writer gives 3 typical definitions for transference. Personally, #1 doesn't sound like transference at all; just an assessment of if the therapist and client's work together is positive or negative. The other two are more typically what I hear referred to here, neither of which apply, for instance, in my case. I don't buy the "any feeling" is transference definition; that just seems like playing loose with psychobabble/jargon to me.
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  #35  
Old Mar 23, 2015, 06:42 PM
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lolagrace quote: "I find it quite possible to have love for many different people just based on an appreciation for them as the beings they are, not mixed up in my issues or needs or history or whatever"

Thank you for this, lolagrace. I agree with you.
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  #36  
Old May 08, 2015, 05:18 PM
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My therapist would never tell me that she loves me. In fact, that very thing came up today. I showed her a text my mom sent which was really nasty...but this is nothing new from my mom, BTW. But in the text my mom reminded me that no one loved me, yes, including her. My therapist was disgusted by the text, but she is disgusted by my mom in general. Anyway...she said that what my mom said wasn't true. That she, my T, cares so much about me. She said it is unethical to say the "L" word. She then preceded to tell me again how much she cares and that my life "means the world" to her. I guess this is her way of showing love? I don't really know what love is though.
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  #37  
Old May 08, 2015, 05:48 PM
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I am not sure what non-transference love means and how one can distingish therapeutic love from non-therapeutic one. This is rather a complex subject and so I'd answer about love in general.

Clients can and do love their therapists often. It's a common occurance in therapy. For client it's perfectly fine to have this feeling and to express it. It's not ok for a therapist to express it EVER and, as far as feeling love for a client, a therapist should make their best effort to be clear as to what kind of love they are feeling.

Is it just general compassion for client's suffering? Is it liking client as a person with no desire to get close to them? Or is it a more intense kind of liking, an attraction (including sexual) that makes them want to make their relationship with client personal?

All those nuances are important. Whenever there is an intensity of feelings toward client that's a clear signal for therapist that they need to watch it and to understand where the intensity is coming from. If the intensity doesn't go away as a result of self-reflection, supervision and therapist's own therapy, then therapist should consider referring client out in a mindful ethical way.

I know of too many therapy "love" stories to believe that expressing love for a client can be either innocent or harmless let alone therapeutic.
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  #38  
Old May 08, 2015, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by thepeaceisinthegrey View Post
My therapist would never tell me that she loves me. In fact, that very thing came up today. I showed her a text my mom sent which was really nasty...but this is nothing new from my mom, BTW. But in the text my mom reminded me that no one loved me, yes, including her. My therapist was disgusted by the text, but she is disgusted by my mom in general. Anyway...she said that what my mom said wasn't true. That she, my T, cares so much about me. She said it is unethical to say the "L" word. She then preceded to tell me again how much she cares and that my life "means the world" to her. I guess this is her way of showing love? I don't really know what love is though.
Sounds like your mother never felt loved, and thats what gets passed down. Im glad i grew up during Beatles time, when we werent so afraid of saying "All you need is love".
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  #39  
Old May 08, 2015, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by hankster View Post
Sounds like your mother never felt loved, and thats what gets passed down. Im glad i grew up during Beatles time, when we werent so afraid of saying "All you need is love".
On the contrary, my grandmother was an EXTREMELY loving mother to my mom and her 5 other children. It is my mom with the issues. She never wanted me and wanted to have an abortion but my grandma being an Italian Catholic said there was no way an abortion would be acceptable. So my mom had me and has hated me ever since.
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  #40  
Old May 08, 2015, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ididitmyway View Post
I am not sure what non-transference love means and how one can distingish therapeutic love from non-therapeutic one. This is rather a complex subject and so I'd answer about love in general.

Clients can and do love their therapists often. It's a common occurance in therapy. For client it's perfectly fine to have this feeling and to express it. It's not ok for a therapist to express it EVER and, as far as feeling love for a client, a therapist should make their best effort to be clear as to what kind of love they are feeling.

Is it just general compassion for client's suffering? Is it liking client as a person with no desire to get close to them? Or is it a more intense kind of liking, an attraction (including sexual) that makes them want to make their relationship with client personal?

All those nuances are important. Whenever there is an intensity of feelings toward client that's a clear signal for therapist that they need to watch it and to understand where the intensity is coming from. If the intensity doesn't go away as a result of self-reflection, supervision and therapist's own therapy, then therapist should consider referring client out in a mindful ethical way.

I know of too many therapy "love" stories to believe that expressing love for a client can be either innocent or harmless let alone therapeutic.
I have no problem with anything in your post except what I underlined. How can you declare in one thread "If they can't accept that someone else's experience can be different from their own because it doesn't fit into the picture of how life works they created in their mind..oh, well..realizing that we might not know everything about this life and being comfortable with not knowing is a part of growing..I think" and come on this thread and speak in absolutes, declaring there is only one right way? Sounds like a statement that applies not only to clients but perhaps even to therapists themselves.

Many posters here have declared there own personal experience of finding a therapist's expression of love as healing, natural, not at all upsetting, not at all harmful, etc. Others have said they'd run the other direction; it would be a problem for them. Perhaps competent therapists can do everything you stated in your post AND express love, under the right circumstances and with discernment, with certain clients and it not be harmful, unethical, or unprofessional.
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  #41  
Old May 08, 2015, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by thepeaceisinthegrey View Post
On the contrary, my grandmother was an EXTREMELY loving mother to my mom and her 5 other children. It is my mom with the issues. She never wanted me and wanted to have an abortion but my grandma being an Italian Catholic said there was no way an abortion would be acceptable. So my mom had me and has hated me ever since.
Im sorry - thats a horrible thing for them to tell you.

Ime, its very difficult to find a t who understands what its like to have a non-mother. People think if youre still alive, then you werent neglected. But thats not true. And if you were neglected, you simply dont know what you missed.
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  #42  
Old May 08, 2015, 07:38 PM
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thepeaceisinthegrey thepeaceisinthegrey is offline
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Originally Posted by hankster View Post
Im sorry - thats a horrible thing for them to tell you.

Ime, its very difficult to find a t who understands what its like to have a non-mother. People think if youre still alive, then you werent neglected. But thats not true. And if you were neglected, you simply dont know what you missed.
Yeah and unfortunately my mom takes every opportunity to tell me what a horrible person I am, how I don't matter, how I should just go ahead and kill myself to make everyone that knows me happy.

I am very lucky in the aspect that my T really does understand what I am going through and what I have been through. She's said to me that I don't deserve to have a mother like that and that I am such a good person. She wishes for me that I had been born to someone else. But we all know that can't be fixed. I guess it just wasn't in the cards for me to be loved.
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life is not just black and white. the peace is in the grey

Inspiration is the burden an artist must bear because it is often hard to find and once found even harder to capture.

If your therapist tells you that they love you,
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  #43  
Old May 08, 2015, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by _Mouse View Post
Mine has signed love on all emails for the last 10yrs.
Madame T used to sign "love" but later switched to "warm regards". I felt that as a definite cooling.
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  #44  
Old May 08, 2015, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by hankster View Post
Ime, its very difficult to find a t who understands what its like to have a non-mother. People think if youre still alive, then you werent neglected. But thats not true. And if you were neglected, you simply dont know what you missed.
It's very difficult to find people in general who understand what it's like to have a non-mother. Over time, my T actually has come to understand my situation. However, I have yet to find a romantic partner who gets it AT ALL. Or even wants to try to get it. They seem to think that if my biological mother is physically alive, then that means I have-- and have always had-- a mother. In reality, the woman who gave birth to me (and often lived in the same house as me) never fed me one meal, never changed one diaper, never drove me to school, doctors, etc, never had a conversation with me, and never sat in the same room as me. Literally, never. To this day she does not know my name, my age, or what state I live in. I have spoken to her less than 10 times in my entire life-- each of which was exceedingly unpleasant. People just can't fathom that situation. But it's real. It took my T a good three years to "get it." But she gets it now. She is no longer silly enough to ask if I'm going to call my mom on Mother's Day or if I have any kind of "plans." Even when we lived in the same house, we didn't celebrate Mother's Day. Why would we? She was not my mother. She does not consider me her daughter. She never bothered to learn my name.
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  #45  
Old May 08, 2015, 08:00 PM
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None of my T's have ever told me they love me. Sometimes I wonder if they even care much about me. Well one I was sure cared a lot about me. I said I love you to one and she said thank you. I said I love you to another one and she didn't say anything. At the time I wanted them to love me. Now I really don't care and will never say it to another therapist. I hate the fakeness of therapy anymore and I have had a lot of it. My therapist I have now wants nothing to do with me when I leave. I can write her and send her an update but she won't write me back. If I come back to visit she is not allowed to see me nor do I think she wants too.

Sorry not too happy right now.
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  #46  
Old May 08, 2015, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by scorpiosis37 View Post
She was not my mother. She does not consider me her daughter. She never bothered to learn my name.
((ScorpioSis))
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  #47  
Old May 08, 2015, 09:23 PM
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thepeaceisinthegrey thepeaceisinthegrey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpiosis37 View Post
It's very difficult to find people in general who understand what it's like to have a non-mother. Over time, my T actually has come to understand my situation. However, I have yet to find a romantic partner who gets it AT ALL. Or even wants to try to get it. They seem to think that if my biological mother is physically alive, then that means I have-- and have always had-- a mother. In reality, the woman who gave birth to me (and often lived in the same house as me) never fed me one meal, never changed one diaper, never drove me to school, doctors, etc, never had a conversation with me, and never sat in the same room as me. Literally, never. To this day she does not know my name, my age, or what state I live in. I have spoken to her less than 10 times in my entire life-- each of which was exceedingly unpleasant. People just can't fathom that situation. But it's real. It took my T a good three years to "get it." But she gets it now. She is no longer silly enough to ask if I'm going to call my mom on Mother's Day or if I have any kind of "plans." Even when we lived in the same house, we didn't celebrate Mother's Day. Why would we? She was not my mother. She does not consider me her daughter. She never bothered to learn my name.
You just posted my life story. I want to extend HUGE hugs to you!!!
__________________
life is not just black and white. the peace is in the grey

Inspiration is the burden an artist must bear because it is often hard to find and once found even harder to capture.

If your therapist tells you that they love you,
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  #48  
Old May 08, 2015, 09:25 PM
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My partner finds it difficult when people try to talk her into seeing her mother that disowned her for being gay. And who was horrible even before that. She (partner) adores her therapist.
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  #49  
Old May 08, 2015, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bounceback View Post
My therapist I have now wants nothing to do with me when I leave. I can write her and send her an update but she won't write me back. If I come back to visit she is not allowed to see me nor do I think she wants too.

Sorry not too happy right now.
I'm a little confused...you said when you leave. Does that mean you are terminating? And what do you mean she is not allowed to see you when you come back to visit? I'm sorry if I missed something here.

I'm sorry you are unhappy right now...sending you hugs!
__________________
life is not just black and white. the peace is in the grey

Inspiration is the burden an artist must bear because it is often hard to find and once found even harder to capture.

If your therapist tells you that they love you,
  #50  
Old May 08, 2015, 09:34 PM
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My husband has completely disconnected from his entire family because they are all so horribly abusive to each other. He knew his parents didn't love him when he was 5. It is hard to imagine the kind of life a child must be living to come to that conclusion so young. Learning to trust love has been a process for him, but he married into a family that is kind of the antithesis of his family. He's grown to finally be able to trust love, to hear the words and trust them, but it took many years to undo that early experience. Undo might not be the right word; I don't think it will ever be completely undone, but he is able to see it for what it was now and know it wasn't okay, it doesn't have to be that way, and he can move and live beyond that horrible era in his life.
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