[SkyscraperMeow]

I hate therapy so damn much. I don't even know why I'm going. Before I started, I had some issues, but not very serious ones. I didn't struggle with depression, or SI or anything like that. I wanted to deal with some things that were causing friction in some relationships. That was all.

Now I feel like a nut case. I don't sleep well anymore. I'm angry a lot of the time. I feel emotionally off-kilter.

I don't think therapists care and I can't imagine how they possibly could care. It's not possible to care about someone you see once a week. It's just not. 50 minutes is not enough time.

And then there's the fees. The crazy, exorbitant fees that I know people here explain away as overheads, etc. But you know what? Owning and riding a horse is less expensive than therapy. And that's saying a lot as horses pretty much eat money. A reasonable fee per hour is about $50-70 per hour. That's a good fee and it is a lot more than most professionals make, but therapists charge triple to quadruple that, right up there with lawyers (who have a lot more education, and who don't require being paid every week) and other seriously professional professionals, which I don't think most therapists are.

I feel like therapy is draining my bank account and my sanity. And yet, everyone seems to think it's this gloriously good idea, and I'll somehow get 'better' if I keep sacrificing income at the altar of some modern day guru who sits there listening and claims some completely intangible 'therapeutic relationship' will help things.

Reading people's stories here doesn't help either, as it seems like most posters here are actively being harmed by their therapists in some way. And it seems like they'd stand up for themselves, but they can't because they're afraid of losing a connection which I don't think really exists anyway - because real connections aren't lost if you stop paying someone.

Therapy is a pecuniary arrangement which attempts to simulate a meaningful relationship, but fails by every easily discernable measure. And that makes people feel insecure, which they attribute to some personal shortcoming, when it's just the nature of the therapy itself which makes one feel that way.

It's not representative of some kind of attachment difficulty if you don't trust someone who only pretends to care if you pay them. It's common sense.

And yeah, I know nobody wants to read that, but I'm sure that is at the root of most everyone's anxieties about therapy. It's the fact that, at the end of the day, we're sitting in a room with someone who had to be paid to pretend to give a ****. And who apparently needs to be paid an awful lot to do that pretending, because that pretending is super, super hard for them to maintain.

I hate the way my therapist basically powers down at the end of every session like a damn robot.

I hate the way my therapist cuts me off because the 50 minutes are up so I can just **** off until next week, when I will be cut off yet again.

I hate how I'm expected to believe in something which clearly isn't real.

I hate how therapy triggers every single trauma you ever had and then just leaves you twisting in the wind.

I hate how therapists seem to think they can help, but they really actually don't.

I hate how therapists hide behind weasel words which obscure the fact that they're only about 10% better than talking to a brick wall.

And I really hate that I'm still going because, apparently, part of my stupid brain is curious to see how this trainwreck plays out.

[musinglizzy]

Sometimes I feel the exact same way. I have way more on my plate now than I did before I started therapy. And it sucks.

[SkyscraperMeow]

It does suck! And I do not, for the life of me, understand how it is an improvement.

I'm really sorry you feel this way, SM, and that you are in so much pain.

I know that I will be told off for voicing this, but it is in fact possible to care, quite genuinely, even when you are paid to see somebody once a week. I see my students once a week or once a month or even more seldom than that. Those I see more regularly, I often care about quite a bit - it is not the same kind of care that I feel for my nieces and nephews, or for my friends, but it is no less genuine for being of a different kind. My friends don't need me, but my students do (a little, for the specific issues that they come to see me about) and that does foster a sense of caring.

I would find it very difficult to have a job where you are required to meet with people one-on-one and have serious discussions with them, if there was no level of care anywhere.

And yes, this forum is very destructive in the sense that it is very easy to get discouraged by reading all the negative stories that people tell. But that is the purpose of the forum, to give people a place to vent. It's good to be aware of the fact that each person's experiences only apply to them, though. (And by the same token, my experiences only apply to me, but at least it shows that it is not correct to say that there can'ät possibly be any caring involved in a paid relationship. I'm not saying that there has to be, but it is definitely possible.)

[PinkFlamingo99]

I agree right now. 100%.

[SkyscraperMeow]

I appreciate your perspective, Mastodon. I guess I should make I statements, so it's about me and not a generality.

I don't feel like my therapist cares.
I don't feel like my therapist is doing anything useful.
I actually feel that my therapist is doing harm by triggering a bunch of trauma and then sitting there like a stunned mullet.

I can't handle 50 minute increments of alleged caring at a rate I can't believe anyone charges for anything. Therapists overcharge hugely. Hugeeeelly. As far as I can tell, all they do is sit there and maintain boundaries. My cat can do that. And my cat doesn't care if you hug it. And my cat only costs the occasional vet bill and food costs.

My cat is awesome.

[Fuzzybear]

Maybe people just post here more often about their negative experiences with therapy. I think my therapist is terrific. I have been seeing her for about 5 months. She is not a psychologist. She is an LCSW (Licensed Clinical Social Worker) and charges $80/hr.

She is very careful to guide my sessions so that I don't start getting deep into an issue and then have the session end abruptly when I am not at a good place.

The type of therapy that she does (IFS) is very gentle and intuitive and affirming, which works well for me. I am extremely stubborn and entrenched in my fears and dysfunctions, but I've discovered that if someone says "examine this aspect of yourself, ask how it is trying to help you, think about how it has gotten misguided/off-track, try to imagine what would be the healthy path here and then put it aside for now" that after I get out of the session, things will start percolating in my brain and subconscious and the next thing I know a realization or an urge to do something healthier will appear.

If that doesn't make any sense, well, it doesn't always make sense to me either. It's a mysterious process.

I feel so grateful for the time that I get to spend with this therapist. She is much younger than I am but wise in ways that I am not, and very intelligent and well-trained, too.

As far as whether she cares about me - she's helping me. I call that caring. Her manner is warm and her face doesn't "switch off" at the end of the session.

I think one thing that so many therapists don't do properly is what I'd call the "cool-down period" - the last 5 or 10 minutes of therapy where whatever you've been discussing needs to be brought to a natural ending point. It reminds me a bit of how a massage therapist does the same thing at the end of the session. I think each therapy session is like a story - it needs to have a beginning, a middle, and an ending.

So, I'm one person who is getting a lot of good from my therapy sessions and likes my therapist. That doesn't mean that I don't often feel emotionally drained after a session or that I don't sometimes feel like an area of my psyche has been "opened up" and that's not always comfortable.

I am not going to therapy this week because the session last week covered an issue that I need some time to "process" and digest before I go back.

[SkyscraperMeow]

Thanks, Jo.

I think you're right about the beginning, middle, end thing. I don't know how sessions are supposed to work, but it would possibly work better if the therapist had some kind of management of the session. Mine has absolutely no structure at all.

Your therapist's charges are very reasonable too. Sounds like you have a good one.

[stopdog]

I do not find therapy fun and I do not recognize what others write about in terms of what happens at an appointment. I don't find the therapist wise or knowing or interesting. I certainly would not say terrific or anything - she is less horrible than some. I also don't really pay much attention to whether the therapist cares or not and it is, for me, a relationship in only the very loosest of definitions of the word.

[guilloche]

Thanks for saying all this SkyscraperMeow. I just got back from therapy tonight, and am feeling very, very similar. It's been brewing awhile, and it sucks. My T is super expensive ($250/h) and after 9 months, I'm feeling *worse* than I did, and not feeling hopeful at all of things getting better. I believe that he wants to help. But, I'm starting to think he can't. And that frankly, I was doing a better job of getting my life together before I decided to go back to therapy. At least I wasn't constantly stressing about going broke.

(And he wants me to go to DBT classes, which will cost more money. There is no more money for therapy-related stuff, I'm completely tapped out just paying for this.)

I don't get it. I really *wish* I could be somebody who benefits. I wish I could walk out feeling stronger, more confident, and more than anything *understood*. I'm beginning to think that that's just not something I'm going to get from therapy, so too bad for me.

It sucks. And, I'm really sorry you're in the same rotten boat too.

[SkyscraperMeow]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I do not find therapy fun and I do not recognize what others write about in terms of what happens at an appointment. I don't find the therapist wise or knowing or interesting. I certainly would not say terrific or anything - she is less horrible than some. I also don't really pay much attention to whether the therapist cares or not and it is, for me, a relationship in only the very loosest of definitions of the word.

Which is all very well and good, but it is not what therapy claims to be. That's what bothers me the most. It's not that I have some wild expectation that the therapist should care, its that they claim they do. They also claim that they are effective - which, again, they don't seem to be.

Therapy is crazymaking because it claims to be one thing, is another, and if you have a problem with any of it, they have a handy label to toss at you to explain why it is your problem, not theirs.

[SkyscraperMeow]

Originally Posted by guilloche

Thanks for saying all this SkyscraperMeow. I just got back from therapy tonight, and am feeling very, very similar. It's been brewing awhile, and it sucks. My T is super expensive ($250/h) and after 9 months, I'm feeling *worse* than I did, and not feeling hopeful at all of things getting better. I believe that he wants to help. But, I'm starting to think he can't. And that frankly, I was doing a better job of getting my life together before I decided to go back to therapy. At least I wasn't constantly stressing about going broke.

(And he wants me to go to DBT classes, which will cost more money. There is no more money for therapy-related stuff, I'm completely tapped out just paying for this.)

I don't get it. I really *wish* I could be somebody who benefits. I wish I could walk out feeling stronger, more confident, and more than anything *understood*. I'm beginning to think that that's just not something I'm going to get from therapy, so too bad for me.

It sucks. And, I'm really sorry you're in the same rotten boat too.

I just realized your thread has the same title as mine, or rather mine has the same title as yours! It's pretty hard to stomach paying $250 per hour for something that makes you feel worse, isn't it? In fact, it makes me wonder if the real sickness (if there is any) is being willing to pay through the nose for what amounts to nothing.

Therapists seem to put a whole lot of value on being understood. I don't really care if the therapist understands, and besides, the way they conduct themselves tells me that they don't seem to understand people in general terribly well.

Each session seems to leave me a little less sure of myself, a little more resentful and a little poorer!

[stopdog]

Perhaps the ones who claim to care define caring differently than clients. Certainly therapists do not work to make what they do transparent - they do hide behind the smoke and mirrors thing and are quite wily as well as incredibly defensive and evasive when one tries to get a handle on what it is they actually do. I decided to change the game - the woman does not get to talk so she can't lie to me or manipulate me easily. I never looked for or wanted caring so whether they claim such a thing or not is of no matter to me.
It has never worked the way they claim for me, but I found a way to make them useful that I am willing to pay for. I am not saying it is the best value - but as a sort of hobby it is not as expensive as some.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by SkyscraperMeow

Which is all very well and good, but it is not what therapy claims to be. That's what bothers me the most. It's not that I have some wild expectation that the therapist should care, its that they claim they do. They also claim that they are effective - which, again, they don't seem to be.

Therapy is crazymaking because it claims to be one thing, is another, and if you have a problem with any of it, they have a handy label to toss at you to explain why it is your problem, not theirs.

I am not disagreeing with this - I think most of it I completely agree with.

[SkyscraperMeow]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Perhaps the ones who claim to care define caring differently than clients. Certainly therapists do not work to make what they do transparent - they do hide behind the smoke and mirrors thing and are quite wily as well as incredibly defensive and evasive when one tries to get a handle on what it is they actually do. I decided to change the game - the woman does not get to talk so she can't lie to me or manipulate me easily. I never looked for or wanted caring so whether they claim such a thing or not is of no matter to me.
It has never worked the way they claim for me, but I found a way to make them useful that I am willing to pay for. I am not saying it is the best value - but as a sort of hobby it is not as expensive as some.

I think it's great you have found a purpose for the woman, as you call her . I guess I simply expect someone I pay $100+ per hour to have more to offer than their mere presence. I expect expertise. I expect the therapy to work as it is described on the tin. And it just doesn't.

It would be one thing if it were simply ineffective too. At least then it would be benign. But it's not. It activates traumas, fosters dependence and does so under the guise of being therapeutic - until the therapist decides they're done with stringing people along and claims they have one of a half dozen terms or conditions.

Perhaps you need to consider stopping therapy and seeing how things improve without it since it is distressing you right now. You don't have to stay in therapy if it isn't working for you.

[iheartjacques]

I think you need to find someone else if you don't think you're progressing. It's like going to the gym. I don't personally look forward to going to the gym or exercising, but I do feel better over the long term. So if it's not working for you in the way you want or need, find someone else who will do what you expect?

[SkyscraperMeow]

Originally Posted by lolagrace

Perhaps you need to consider stopping therapy and seeing how things improve without it since it is distressing you right now. You don't have to stay in therapy if it isn't working for you.

I agree. And I most likely will.

[stopdog]

Advertising always overstates the case. The hamburger you get in the wrapper never looks like the one in the picture. My new sneakers never made me run faster or jump higher. They are over-zealous in what they think they have to offer - I guess I never believed them in the first place so when it did not pan out - I just felt that I was right and reaffirmed my belief about them.

In some ways, it is like people approach therapy like they do religion - some believe (and it is true and good and works), some do not (what the hell are those other guys talking about and how is this not just a hoax), and some are agnostic. I think the guys who don't benefit from the belief are often wanting or at least wanting to understand what those who do believe have - and all too often some of the believers blame or seem to blame those for whom it is not working or understandable for their failure to have enough faith or "do the work" or that the non-benefitter is just not working hard enough (blame the sinner). It seems difficult (and sometimes they get defensive or offended even) for the ones who believe to understand those of us who are non-believers or agnostic are often wondering how it all works. Sometimes I think it depends on those who find a leap of faith useful and doable and those who do not. I am not good with leaps of faith. Faith at all really - so if that is what therapy requires (the process sort of language that makes me crazy) then - for me- it will never work in the way they set it up and I am okay with that - I understand I am making a choice not to give over to a therapist and if that is what causes me to find the whole thing hurdlesome - then so be it.

[iheartjacques]

Mine is great too, with the structure. First five mins, hi how are you, mood, health, sleep, etc. then ten mins of me talking about something that's happened, or what I've done since last session. then he talks. Then I usually get time to bring some something else, or keep talking about current issue. Then he talks. then last five minutes is bringing me back to the present , asking if I've got the next appointment ready, and saying ahve a good week and take care of myself.

[guilloche]

Ack, I'm so sorry! The duplicate name is totally my fault. I came home upset and hurt from therapy, saw your thread and posted... realized I was still really hurt and upset, and started my own thread to vent, and the name of yours didn't register at all with me. I just went with how I was feeling - I'm so sorry! Didn't mean to add any confusion...

Yeah, the cost makes it worse. I would totally find a way to make it work... if it were worth it. If I were getting better, or could even see that there was a plan that eventually would drop me off at better. I don't know, it's all so confusing, I have no clue what the point is, and as you pointed out - it's not just that it's not helping, it seems to be making things worse.

I don't honestly know if I'm going to have the guts to quit next week either though. I'm going to do a lot of soul searching this week, I think, and try to figure it out. The whole thing just strikes me as crazy.

I think for me... I'm very "thinky". I really enjoy reading psychology books or articles, and *getting it*. Feeling like it clicks, and helps me understand stuff... I don't know in the long run if it will help me feel better, but right now, it kind of does - like "OK, I'm not crazy - the ways I'm acting are normal and predictable given my particular background! Yay!" It helps.

But my T doesn't help with that at all. I don't know if it's because my stuff isn't his area of expertise, or if that's just not what T is about. I just feel like, crap, I'm getting more from $20 self help books on Amazon than from T. And, I honestly, really, so much wish I *could* get something from T. I really want to improve my life, handle more, be less stressed, be more confident, have a better sense of self, and be able to handle feelings well - you know, I think it gives people a certain depth and maturity. And, I just can't see getting there with T right now, and I can't for the life of me understand WHY. Oh it sucks so much! I've *tried* harder than with any other T, and he knows more of my stuff... but he doesn't understand any of it I think!!!!!

Thanks for posting this, and I'm glad I'm not the only one. Therapy DOES feel crazy making, you are right about that!!!

[SkyscraperMeow]

The religion analogy is something I had in the back of my mind too, stopdog. I've always wondered what it must be like to have faith. I always invite the religious doorknockers in to tell me about their religion, mostly because they really do believe it and it's fascinating to witness. Therapy certainly does seem to be predicated on intangible, and faith is indeed a mystery.

[SkyscraperMeow]

Originally Posted by guilloche

Ack, I'm so sorry! The duplicate name is totally my fault. I came home upset and hurt from therapy, saw your thread and posted... realized I was still really hurt and upset, and started my own thread to vent, and the name of yours didn't register at all with me. I just went with how I was feeling - I'm so sorry! Didn't mean to add any confusion...

Yeah, the cost makes it worse. I would totally find a way to make it work... if it were worth it. If I were getting better, or could even see that there was a plan that eventually would drop me off at better. I don't know, it's all so confusing, I have no clue what the point is, and as you pointed out - it's not just that it's not helping, it seems to be making things worse.

I don't honestly know if I'm going to have the guts to quit next week either though. I'm going to do a lot of soul searching this week, I think, and try to figure it out. The whole thing just strikes me as crazy.

I think for me... I'm very "thinky". I really enjoy reading psychology books or articles, and *getting it*. Feeling like it clicks, and helps me understand stuff... I don't know in the long run if it will help me feel better, but right now, it kind of does - like "OK, I'm not crazy - the ways I'm acting are normal and predictable given my particular background! Yay!" It helps.

But my T doesn't help with that at all. I don't know if it's because my stuff isn't his area of expertise, or if that's just not what T is about. I just feel like, crap, I'm getting more from $20 self help books on Amazon than from T. And, I honestly, really, so much wish I *could* get something from T. I really want to improve my life, handle more, be less stressed, be more confident, have a better sense of self, and be able to handle feelings well - you know, I think it gives people a certain depth and maturity. And, I just can't see getting there with T right now, and I can't for the life of me understand WHY. Oh it sucks so much! I've *tried* harder than with any other T, and he knows more of my stuff... but he doesn't understand any of it I think!!!!!

Thanks for posting this, and I'm glad I'm not the only one. Therapy DOES feel crazy making, you are right about that!!!

I think it would make sense if you were to see another therapist. I sometimes feel crazy from therapy for sure, and discombobulated because of all the triggers and such, but at least I do feel that the therapist understands what I'm saying.

If you don't at least feel heard, then I think it's okay to find a more aligned (more economical) therapist.

At any rate, it's certainly not your fault that it's not working so far.

[SkyscraperMeow]

Originally Posted by iheartjacques

Mine is great too, with the structure. First five mins, hi how are you, mood, health, sleep, etc. then ten mins of me talking about something that's happened, or what I've done since last session. then he talks. Then I usually get time to bring some something else, or keep talking about current issue. Then he talks. then last five minutes is bringing me back to the present , asking if I've got the next appointment ready, and saying ahve a good week and take care of myself.

That sounds like a good system. I just rant for an hour until the therapist informs me of the time of my next appointment. It may not be an idea situation.