Do you ever feel contempt or aggression from your therapist?

I'm putting a report together as I've mentioned quite a lot on other threads.

With the benefit of hindsight - I now see other parts of the dynamic with my ex therapist that make me thing 'god, that wasn't really ok'. Namely, too many sessions where I got a lot of aggression from her, and tinges of contempt. Where she was almost shouting - telling me I wasn't working hard enough, that I was sh#tting all over her efforts, tell me to grow a pair of balls, etc. Especially when I didn't follow her advice, and that's leaving out the fact that it's not her job to be giving advice in the first place - which she said herself, conveniently forgetting the times she would get pissed off at me for not doing as I was told. Once when my mum was due to visit, she told me to tell her not to come. This was the day before she was due to fly to London. I went to pay my therapist and she said to keep the money, tell my mum not to come and to go on a weekend break by myself to relax. It was pretty awkward. I didn't do it - my mum came over and it was mixed, both good and bad, but if I had suddenly cancelled on her it would have damaged our relationship quite a lot.

Anyway, I feel very resentful of all the times I was treated aggressively. But it wasn't always that way, not at all. Sometimes of course she was so incredibly warm and loving and great. I never knew what I was going to get - the 'sister' who had my back and would fight my corner, or the disengaged person who was clearly irritated with me. Is that simply how it goes?

Am I being precious to be pissed off? Can I get a reality check here - is this simply how long term therapy goes, is it inevitable that aggression and fighting work their way into the relationship? Do you work around a certain amount of hostility and irritability in your therapy as a norm?

I can't honestly tell what is reasonable to expect. I don't have other relationships that have followed that trajectory. My real-life relationship difficulties have been with my mother, and with my ex boyfriend, and they were vastly different sorts of difficulties to this. We certainly fought to a heartbreaking degree, and we wound each other up, but they were never aggressive - it was different. So I don't know if this is 'normal'.

Yikes. I've worked with my T for six years and I can't imagine him ever, ever talking to me like that, giving me ultimatums, etc. He certainly weighs in with what is going to be healthy and effective for me, but blaming me for my issues? Dictating my behavior? No effing way.

I've certainly had him express disappointment before, but never in a way that's guilt inducing. It's more of a "I care about you and you're choosing an ineffective way of dealing" kind of thing - but it's also never volunteered. He usually will tell me that after I've pressed him for his thoughts. For the most part - like 99% of the time - he remains very non-judgmental seeing us as a team working toward a goal. I absolutely can dictate boundaries and what I will and won't do. He'll press me on it if he thinks there's a certain way to go that's more therapeutically effective, but he never resorts to name calling, blaming, anger, etc.

It sounds like she was incredibly hurtful and I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

Definitely no. My therapists have always treated me with great respect. They may have been firm at times, but never aggressive and certainly not with contempt. I would not have tolerated that kind of treatment.

No - I would not tolerate it either. I don't even let one of them talk at all about 90 % of the time. I don't even let them be assertive or firm (especially not firm - what on earth would a therapist have to be firm at me about? It is not their life)
Frankly it would have turned into an out an out verbal brawl had a therapist ever attempted to speak to me like that.

This is so messed up it's scary. She sounds like a psycho.

I totally agree.

It was very mixed. At the start she absolutely wasn't blaming me for my issues, and then it kind of moved towards that.

There is still a bit of me that thinks, maybe she has a point. However, I have to say I have never had a relationship as spectacularly destructive as with her. It's quite impressive, really, how insidiously damaging it managed to become.

I am glad you have a sane therapist who is tactful and sensitive, even after six years together - the 'honeymoon' period is definitely over, and he still is able to be great!

Yeah, firm and assertive are fine. Making sure to get a point across. I would expect that.

I don't mean to nitpick, Lolagrace, and I value very much your contributions (on my threads, and when I read what you have to say on other threads in general) but it sticks in my craw a little to read about not 'tolerating' that kind of treatment. Essentially, it was an abusive relationship that my therapy turned into, unfortunately - and all kinds of people can find themselves in abusive relationships, no matter how smart or confident or savvy you are as a person. You get sucked into an abusive trap because they are charming and charismatic and come across as sincere at first. Even after they start being horrible, they feed you little titbits of love every now and again to keep you desperately hoping that it will all be okay and things will come round and be good and healthy again. So, I really don't think it's about tolerating - it's about it being damn hard to extricate yourself from the trap of an abusive dynamic.

This made me laugh inappropriately

I don't think a psycho, but I do think a big dollop of narcissistic traits, coupled with hypomanic episodes (she is bipolar) that she ignores.

My therapist would get mad at me for self-harming or quitting jobs or that kind of thing. She would say stuff like "I don't think I'm helping because you're getting worse" that would make me hide things from her because I was afraid she would leave me.

But she woukd never go that far, that's crazy. The things your therapist said seem so aggressive.

No way. You have every right to be pissed off.
If my memory is correct, you told once here she said something about her narcissistic traits.

Contempt, nearly shouting ? Not normal at all in a therapeutic relationship.
Not acceptable in healthy relationships anyway. Let alone a therapeutic relationship.
Contempt has nothing therapeutic and speaks volume about her incompetence.

"that I was sh#tting all over her efforts"
Even if you were not progressing the way she wanted, this sentence speaks volume about her distorted thinking.
She gets it backwards.

Wait for it. If you hired a cook talking to you with contempt and nearly shouting, would you accept it ?
You hire your therapist to get better, not the other way round.

She had no therapeutic boundaries with her clients. She exploited you to serve her needs first and let not think about any damage to the client. She is the one at fault. Period.

No way.

Hostility and irritability is one thing.
What your ex-therapist did goes well beyond hostility and irritability.
Her behavior was self-serving under the guise of helping you.
Nothing remotely normal in a therapeutic relationship, short-term or long term.

Not even remotely normal. Your ex-therapist was a sicko. She is a bad apple.

I should have done that - then maybe it wouldn't have gone so far. I would get more and more mute, hesitant to say anything in case I made it worse, and she would get progressively more hostile. Completely different to how I argued with ex boyfriend or my mum, where I was well able to stand my ground and argue back - but it was different, I never felt like they were attacking my character the same way. It was more about events that had happened that we were arguing over, and with my mum very rarely one of us would get personal - but it was different. I can't explain it properly.

Maybe if I'd ripped ex therapist a new arsehole in retaliation, she would have respected me and shut the hell up? But it shouldn't be that way.

You are more sane than she is.

Hypomanic ? Yikee ! What would it be if she had manic episodes with psychosis while you're in session !

Let be comfortable with one certainty. Your ex-T's behavior showed how impaired she was. She is too ill to practice safely.

Your reaction was what you could do at time.

Not necessarily. You told us already about her bipolar and her narcissistic traits.
Two reasons not to waste your saliva with her being a sorry excuse of a therapist. I am angry on your behalf against her.

She actually sounds scary.

I think she is dangerous to a subsection of potential clients - namely, anyone with complex attachment injuries. Especially if, like I was, they are having a kind of 'boundary refurbishment' period - I was cutting out men who were really bad news for me, and she seemed like this really safe haven. But she wasn't. At all. That's what made it more horrifying. To think the person I'd invested in as safe and secure was so treacherous. Still makes me shudder.

For other people with different issues, I think she is a good therapist. Unfortunately there's no way of knowing if those issues are there until you're elbow deep in therapy, in some cases.

I'd be worried she'd be dangerous to the public actually.

You've told us she ignores her hypomanic episodes.
And she wouldn't be dangerous for some clients ? Something doesn't work in your reasoning.

Do you really think that a professional can practice safely for clients when s/he ignores hypomania and narcissistic traits ?

I'd call that abusive. Flat out abusive, manipulative, and controlling. I'm glad you're out of that.

I'm actually horrified by this. No, that's not normal, it's not excusable, you're not wrong for being upset by it.

To be clear - that's my speculating as her excuse for how she behaves as she does. I know she is bipolar, yes. Not that she ignores hypomania. But it explains a lot - grandiose behaviour, chattering on about herself, doing lots of 'out there' things, talking to me in very passionate language, flying off the handle, coming up with mad schemes, etc. Reminds me a lot of the mania I have seen in others. But, maybe I am wrong and it's not hypomania - maybe she's just like that anyhow.

I hear what you are saying, and I used to find myself accepting poor treatment from people because I thought it was the only way to get the good attention too (I am not inexperienced in my own share of abusive relationships so I understand completely what you are saying), but I have learned over time not to accept that kind of treatment from anyone, particularly those I am most emotionally invested in (husband, children, other family, students, etc.). I used to just take it for fear that standing up against it would lose it all, but I no longer tolerate that kind of treatment from anyone. I chose the word deliberately. It may feel like a judgment to you, but I am only making a judgment of myself and what I would accept or not accept. It was a learned skill for me; it was about creating and holding healthy, assertive (not aggressive) boundaries with people who tried to treat me with anything less than the respect I deserve. It was probably the single-most important skill I learned in therapy.

The behavior you described screams "untreated illness with dangerous behavior rendering her incapable to practice safely for her clients".
Even if she was like that anyhow, she looks ill anyway. Whatever the final diagnosis turns out to be, it doesn't detract from the central issue.

The central issue is that she is too ill to practice her job.

Ok cool I understand what you mean now thank you for clarifying! And I do agree.

I agree that in theory she is too unpredictable and unboundaried to practice.

But honestly - with some people, she's great. One of my good friends attends her and finds her wonderful. Very different presentation to me. Fantastic therapeutic relationship between him and her.

You know, while I get that most therapists aren't psychopaths, I've read enough on PC to realize that it's really easy to get sucked into a relationship like that. I mean, I went into my T desperate for help and willing to be entirely open with him. I realize now that there were multiple opportunities for him to take advantage of that - however he wanted and in every way possible - that he never has nor do I have reason to think he will.

I think you were treated terribly by someone who should have known better. You go to the doctor with some level of trust. You go to an accountant with some level of trust. You go to any professional with some level of trust and a the trust one has for a therapist is heavy.

She treated you poorly. You didn't deserve that and it's not your fault. You sought help and ended up with someone who used that against you whether they meant to or not.

In theory or not in theory, it doesn't matter. Legal thinking from a student in law.

Good for these some people. But paradoxically for you, it's a moot point.
You judge a practitioner's safety by her conduct with the most vulnerable clients and her insight. She conducted herself dangerously with a very vulnerable client + she has 0 insight. If she had some insight, she wouldn't have deflected the blame on you.
And yet, we can equate this with safe to practice for the public ?!? Really ?!?

It's faulty thinking on my part but - I feel like I allowed myself to be vulnerable, so that was MY mistake. If I'd been more shrewd...I'd not have been sucked in...I'm pretty tough in real life so I feel I have no excuse to have been so damaged by this therapist. I feel ridiculous.

Ouch she sounds wacko. No she is totally wrong on every level.

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You know it's faulty thinking. Indeed, it's #3 most common cognitive distortion

Of course you allowed yourself to become vulnerable.
Do you really think that you can go to therapy without allowing yourself to become vulnerable with the therapist ?
If you weren't vulnerable, would you need a psychotherapy at all ?
If you're not sick or in need for administrative medical paperwork, do you need to go to the doctor ?

Saying "I'm at fault because I allowed myself to become vulnerable with a therapist during a psychotherapy" is exactly like if you stated "I am at fault because I made an appointment with a lawyer for writing an affidavit and I allowed myself not to know all the legal details about affidavits".
Knowing the legal details about affidavits is lawyer's job : blaming yourself for not doing lawyer's job is nonsensical.

You hire your therapist to deal with your vulnerabilities. Blaming yourself for not having done therapist's job you pay her for is as much nonsensical as if you blamed yourself for not doing your lawyer's job you pay him for.