Do not diagnose others or tell others how they should have acted

Hi folks,

One of the core tenets of our community is to offer supportive replies, rather than critical judgments about others' behavior. Judgments and criticism aren't much welcomed by anyone -- here or in real life. When you tell others "Well, this is how you should've acted," you're basically telling them they acted in a "wrong" way.

Life isn't so black and white where there's always one clear "right" way to act, and another "wrong" way.

Now, you're welcomed to your opinion. And you're welcomed to share it with others, if you feel in doing so will actually help another member better understand the situation or behavior (and is supportive).

But this is not a forum to make armchair diagnoses of other members, or to tell other members they acted "wrongly."

Please take note of this, because we'll start warning members privately if they don't follow my note here and act more supportively of other members in this forum.

Thanks for your cooperation.

DocJohn

PS - This is not the first time we've tried to address this issue (see A reminder about support & judgment here ).

You say "don't diagnose" but what when the OP is asking "What does this sound like?"? Are we allowed to reply to that?
And what about suggesting someone will find likeminded individuals in another forum, e.g. depression or PTSD? Does that count as diagnosing?

Now I'm afraid to post anything anywhere. Sigh.

What thread(s) is the basis for this recent warning?

What on Earth happened? Confused Shakey is confused.

It was probably the fears come true thread?

I think it took the whole thread for people to finally reach the conclusion of the title, that that is what happens in t - your fears DO come true, and thats how you work thru them.

But that awareness wasnt present in the earlier responses, so we took the situation more literally, and less therapeutically at first. And that probably wasnt helpful. We were too much in the OP's shoes, wishing we had handled the t's situation differently

But its about the client, not the t. And our responses should be like on Jeopardy, not necessarily in the form of a question, but how can i be supportive here.

DocJohn,

With ALL respect and kindness, you are obviously keenly aware of many of the issues the people coming here have, with fear of getting in trouble and/or causing trouble being a constant issue I have noticed for many including myself. I hope your understanding of that makes it obvious that I am NOT wanting to cause an issue.

Could you be so kind as to be a little more specific with what is ok and what is not. I am not asking you to give issue details or names or anything, just help those of us that are now a little triggered with fear about making an accidental mistake know specifics to create safe boundaries for ourselves. I obviously can't speak for others but for me even the 'warning' if I made the accidental mistake would make me leave the forum because I have real problem with upsetting people or breaking rules. I am well aware that is my own internal issue, but from reading others, I think I am not alone in this concern.

Thank you so much for this amazing group of support here and I appreciate you understanding how crazy the panic might seem to you even though it isn't to some of us.

Have a fabulous weekend.

Oh I see...took a look....

I sincerely doubt you'd be "restricted from posting" on PC (sorry but that's such a lovely way to say banned from) just because of one accidental mistake. I presume you'd been given a fair warning regarding an emerging trend towards "unsupportiveness" in your posts. Hope it helps a bit till DocJohn/other mod will clarify further.

I wonder if we can all come with some ways of telling the forum that we just want to vent and don't wAnt anyone to answer or recommend anything. Then people would know.

Sometimes the person asks and others reply but replies aren't what op wants or it turns out that op didn't want anyone to answer anything. It gets confusing. If the person asks "should I do XYZ" and others say "no" and the person Says it us unsupportive, then it is lose lose situation! It confuses people if they should lie or ignore questions?

Should people who simply want to vent start their posts by saying "just a vent" then everyone knows not to recommend or answer anything?

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Or another suggestion - if a poster does NOT want replies, can there be a box or something we can check prior to submitting our post, that would allow us to post in order to vent but not allow actual replies, but instead just offer a selection of supportive statements to choose from or something. I don't know if I explained what I'm thinking right.

Yes I know exactly what you mean. But then op should make sure they aren't asking anything but strictly blow steam and want only replies that fully agree with op. Nothing wrong with that if people know in advance

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Some excellent ideas that could help decrease issues.

Hopefully there is something that can be set up like you guys are suggesting.

Hmmm, I have to say I don't like the idea of an option that only allows people to agree with you. Aren't we all supposed to be adults on here?

So if a poster *asks* for our opinions... we're not supposed to give it? I get moderating is hard but I mean, people have to have some responsibility for what they're typing.

Another side of this coin: this is a public forum, so when someone comes on here and posts something on this public forum, they bear some of the responsibility too.... right? Perhaps an unpopular view. I guess I should really just leave this topic alone...

Can't we all just get along?

I'll take responsibility for what I type. But if someone asks the question, why is it on me to only reply if I'm going to be an echo chamber?

In addition to... isn't this what the ignore list exists for? There is a means by which another person could, effectively, block everyone they don't want to hear from.

I like to discuss That's why I respond.

I know what you mean about discussing. I never did before. I'm finally at a point in my life where I believe in myself and my own thoughts and have started sharing them and now I feel like I shouldn't. Agh! lol

People are not going to get along all the time and people are not going to agree all the time. That's just life. I think it's safe to say that most of us are in therapy because we feel there's something about ourselves that needs to change, even if we're not sure what or how. There's lots of insight to be found in disagreement, if people can be mature enough to look for it. Like I said previously, we're all adults here. Big girl and boy pants and all that.

To respond to last few posts about distinguishing people asking for validation vs blowing steam, vs asking for real opinions, etc.

I'll tell you, when I started posting here, I got on some people's nerves and pissed them off. The reason was that the titles of threads were confusing. People would ask a general question, only for it to be about their specific situation. They would ask a specific question, only to criticize whole of therapy. They would seem to want to vent, only to be pissed if you don't take their view seriously enough on an intellectual level. And finally, they would ask a seemingly purely logical question asking for information, and when you provided it, they would reject it and say the answer is subjective and appear hurt for you not being validating to them!

These things angered me, partly because people were reacting badly to me who was trying to help and feel supported myself, but also because it would trigger me and remind me of my mom who would often say one thing but there was often a different purpose to what seemed to be the obvious thing on the surface that she was bringing up with me.

Still from time to time people's posts confuse me. And then there are people who just post un-supportive statements as if that's their whole purpose here, mocking therapy, or exaggerating risks and dangers of therapy. I often want to post and say stop that, this person is new, give them realistic information, but don't pass on your own fears and judgements as information. But then I realize those people too are probably struggling with things. Why else would they keep posting here?

I'm going somewhere with this. My point is that I think sometimes people themselves are not really aware of what they want when they make a post. I been there myself. A lot of people who don't feel validated often, usually ask questions in indirect ways, because they might feel vulnerable coming out and just saying some stuff. Why? Cause it's too painful to be invalidated when you directly ask for something, it's triggering for some people. So sometimes consciously, sometimes unconsciously, they mask the real issue.

So that's why - and just emphasizing it's my personal opinion - saying that "this is purely a venting thread" or that a certain person only wants agreements in X thread, is not gonna work. Either people not gonna bother replying, the replies gonna sound fake, or the person is going to realize this was not a purely venting thread, that they want to discuss some stuff also, that venting is just the start of it.

Anyhow, probably the way it works is just people trying to constantly be reminded that don't get too involved in issues of people who post (they have therapists often who know better than strangers on a forum), give informative advice after some reflection only, and then step back and don't get personal and stuff or take responsibility for people or alternatively chide them for not following your advice. You just don't know the state of mind of person who posted or what's really going on with them. Even therapists who meet people in person would take a long time to really diagnose or get to know a person. Online is much harder still.

I'm not saying this as if it's easy for me to do. I struggle with both sides of this equation.

I think that is where the problem often occurs. Someone makes a thread asking questions about their situation, but when people honestly reply and the poster realizes people don't perceive their situation the way they do, they become offended. But this is a public forum made up of dozens of active posters with different backgrounds, different experiences, different issues, different takes on life. To expect everyone to completely agree with you just isn't realistic.

If you ask questions, then either be willing to hear a variety of opinions because that is what you are going to inevitably get, or take the responsibility from the start to define what you are looking for in replies. But if this forum is only about echoing what posters have already said, what really is the point of conversation.

I get that at times people just need to vent. Then say that from the start and request no opinions about your vent. We've all been there; we get that.

I get that at times people need opinions but know they are in a fragile state. I respect and appreciate those that say that and clearly ask for gentle replies. They are being proactive for themselves and helpful to those of us that reply. We've all been there; we get that.

But if a poster posts and asks questions without any caveat about what kind of replies they are looking for, so long as the replies are not abusive or harrassing in nature (and I've seen them get that way so I'm not saying they don't), then that should be okay. If you realize after replies start coming in that you've changed your mind and you really don't want honest opinions (and I can see how that happens), rather than getting angry with replies that aren't mean but simply have a different take on a situation that you aren't ready to look at, then just acknowledge that and clarify what you are looking for in responses. Alternately you can ask to have your thread closed or removed if it has become too triggering for you. You can place certain posters on ignore if their replies are too upsetting to you.

We can't be expected to read minds and know what posters want, nor should we be reprimanded for posting replies, often carefully thought out, that aren't deemed supportive when they were meant to be and intended to be, but simply not received that way because they don't concur with what the OP was really wanting to hear. If you asked people to define what support is, I suspect we would get a wide variety of responses, and I also suspect people would admit that even their own idea of what support they need varies with their own situation.

We do the best we can here in our very fallable, human way.

A problem I see is that we don't all agree on what is mean. I see things I think are mean all the time. It doesn't matter if the responder did not intend meanness (often they announce they are jast being real or direct or trying to give harsh but helpful feedback or whatever). I am one of the ones who stopped starting threads that aren't just questions because of how everyone wanted to analyze me or tell me to quit despite me saying I was not looking for that.

Supportive doesnt mean agree with, necessarily. If somebody feels bad about something, what is there to agree with? You can say, i understand why you would feel that way. Or, yeah that would make me feel lonely too, or whatever. That might open up a dialogue on the main feeling (lonely) rather than the person's "rightness" in feeling lonely. Whether you are right or wrong to feel lonely - ??? - you still FEEL lonely. Or whatever.

When people disagree it is sometimes viewed as unsupportive.

Most people are ok with disagreement and different opinions but some aren't, either cannot handle due to whatever is their struggle it or are in a wrong place in life to be in disagreement. They should be able to occasionally vent without others offering suggestion. Then we could avoid being called unsupportive and people get what they need.

I know it is not ideal, but I'd rather people do that than all of us worry about being in trouble when we give an opinion .

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I thought we should give an opinion when one asks for it but it appears that people get upset when opinion is not what they expected and then trouble arises. That's why I suggested when people just want to vent they do so without asking for opinions

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