T and I have had a couple of really difficult sessions where I haven't felt understood by him regarding my feelings about my first therapist contacting me out of the blue and it's just felt frustrating and upsetting.
Today part of me just wanted to ignore it because I couldn't face another session of miscommunication, and I told him that, but I said it felt like we just had to plow through it anyway because there was no way around it. And I'm so glad we did.
T told me he has been experiencing feelings towards me that he perceives as paternal in nature (I'm 30, he's around 60), including feeling protective and proud of me, and that this had been happening on an unconscious level. He suggested that those feelings might have been behind the "I don't consider myself to be a member of your family" comment which seemed so clumsy and bizarre to me last session.
He thinks that when I needed him to show me some protectiveness about what T1 was doing, that part of him was 'looking the other way' he thinks as a form of self-defense from feelings of helplessness with regard to what was happening.
He also said that his feeling that T1 'should be made aware' of what he has done to me has gotten in the way of his reactions too. (Though we agree neither of us actually should make him aware of it).
I'm so pleased he has taken such care to think about what had been making communication and understanding so difficult on his part, and that he obviously cares about me (I suppose I've had a hard time believing he cared because he seemed to be missing the mark so much recently).
His ability to be self-reflective and emotionally honest with himself are what I admire about him the most, and what makes the relationship work.

[ruh roh]

I'm so glad to hear this, echos. He has always seemed to be what you needed in a therapist, and now he's showing why. It's so helpful when a therapist will do a self-check like that and consider what they are bringing to sessions. I'm in a struggle of miscommunication myself, but there are no signs of my therapist understanding how badly this has gone. Good for you for getting it sorted out so quickly (quickly, to me, maybe not to you).

Originally Posted by ruh roh

I'm so glad to hear this, echos. He has always seemed to be what you needed in a therapist, and now he's showing why. It's so helpful when a therapist will do a self-check like that and consider what they are bringing to sessions. I'm in a struggle of miscommunication myself, but there are no signs of my therapist understanding how badly this has gone. Good for you for getting it sorted out so quickly (quickly, to me, maybe not to you).

Thanks roh roh. It took me quite a long time to realise he is what I needed, but on some level I probably always knew he was the right choice for me! He has had supervision since I last saw him which seemingly has given him the space to explore his feelings, and I too think that's incredibily helpful. (He's a big advocate of career-long supervision and has written books and articles on the process).
Sorry you're struggling with communication/understanding difficulties too, I hope you can resolve them swiftly

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

T and I have had a couple of really difficult sessions where I haven't felt understood by him regarding my feelings about my first therapist contacting me out of the blue and it's just felt frustrating and upsetting.
Today part of me just wanted to ignore it because I couldn't face another session of miscommunication, and I told him that, but I said it felt like we just had to plow through it anyway because there was no way around it. And I'm so glad we did.
T told me he has been experiencing feelings towards me that he perceives as paternal in nature (I'm 30, he's around 60), including feeling protective and proud of me, and that this had been happening on an unconscious level. He suggested that those feelings might have been behind the "I don't consider myself to be a member of your family" comment which seemed so clumsy and bizarre to me last session.
He thinks that when I needed him to show me some protectiveness about what T1 was doing, that part of him was 'looking the other way' he thinks as a form of self-defense from feelings of helplessness with regard to what was happening.
He also said that his feeling that T1 'should be made aware' of what he has done to me has gotten in the way of his reactions too. (Though we agree neither of us actually should make him aware of it).
I'm so pleased he has taken such care to think about what had been making communication and understanding so difficult on his part, and that he obviously cares about me (I suppose I've had a hard time believing he cared because he seemed to be missing the mark so much recently).
His ability to be self-reflective and emotionally honest with himself are what I admire about him the most, and what makes the relationship work.

That's great that it was a productive session and he was so open with you about what he was feeling. Definitely seems like it would explain the tension between you. He's probably trying to be extra careful, too, because of what happened with T1.

Funny that my T said stuff that suggested she had some maternal countertransference for me last week--talking about blurred boundaries and her feelings getting involved, concerned she was too close to me to view my situation objectively. This was in response to me saying she had seemed really distant from me in the session before she went on vacation. She said it was because she was trying to take a step back and probably went too far in that direction. (Which led to her suggesting hospitalization, when she knew I would object to that--it felt like she was treating me like a random client, not like someone she'd been working with for 4 years.) I had sensed she was getting closer, but was afraid to bring it up. I was really surprised she shared all that with me, because she usually doesn't talk about her feelings or reactions to things with me. (That's more of an MC thing. Though he's never mentioned countertransference toward me. But I'm pretty sure there's some of the paternal type of that going on with him, and that's why he's gotten closer and then pulled back a couple times.)

Part of your issue with T1 was that he was getting too close but wouldn't admit to that, right? It sounds like your current T is much more self-aware and willing to admit his faults. Which is definitely a good thing! Hopefully talking about all of this will just make your relationship with him stronger.

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

That's great that it was a productive session and he was so open with you about what he was feeling. Definitely seems like it would explain the tension between you. He's probably trying to be extra careful, too, because of what happened with T1.

Funny that my T said stuff that suggested she had some maternal countertransference for me last week--talking about blurred boundaries and her feelings getting involved, concerned she was too close to me to view my situation objectively. This was in response to me saying she had seemed really distant from me in the session before she went on vacation. She said it was because she was trying to take a step back and probably went too far in that direction. (Which led to her suggesting hospitalization, when she knew I would object to that--it felt like she was treating me like a random client, not like someone she'd been working with for 4 years.) I had sensed she was getting closer, but was afraid to bring it up. I was really surprised she shared all that with me, because she usually doesn't talk about her feelings or reactions to things with me. (That's more of an MC thing. Though he's never mentioned countertransference toward me. But I'm pretty sure there's some of the paternal type of that going on with him, and that's why he's gotten closer and then pulled back a couple times.)

Part of your issue with T1 was that he was getting too close but wouldn't admit to that, right? It sounds like your current T is much more self-aware and willing to admit his faults. Which is definitely a good thing! Hopefully talking about all of this will just make your relationship with him stronger.

Thanks for this Lonesome, how interesting! It seems it's quite easy as a therapist to fall into the trap of letting unconscious feelings for a client affect how they treat them, and it takes an excellent therapist to recognise that, and to be honest about it. (So much better than making the client feel like they're the one with the problem all the time. T1 called it 'projection' when I told him he made me feel belittled - which was even more belittling!)
You are right, T1 did get too close and was blind to the obvious countertransference, so T's willingness to not only realise it, but to share it is a huge contrast. Glad your T also realised what was going on for her.

[Out There]

I'm pleased to hear this Echos ,your T sounds excellent. Sharing your insights and experiences has helped me immeasurably in my work with my own T , who is also excellent.

Your post made me cry, I think it hit a nerve for me. Your saying that he felt paternal feelings for you said to me that he cares about you. That's something I'd like to hear from my T.

Originally Posted by Out There

I'm pleased to hear this Echos ,your T sounds excellent. Sharing your insights and experiences has helped me immeasurably in my work with my own T , who is also excellent.

Thank you, I'm so pleased it's been helpful to you. It's great to hear you have an excellent T too.

Originally Posted by Brown Owl

Your post made me cry, I think it hit a nerve for me. Your saying that he felt paternal feelings for you said to me that he cares about you. That's something I'd like to hear from my T.

thanks for this Brown Owl. I took it to mean he cares too. This hasn't been something we've discussed before and I've been seeing him for 15 months, so I wouldn't take the absence of that discussion as evidence your T doesn't care. I wonder if your reaction to my post might indicate it's a conversation you might benefit from having with your T?
I appreciate your sharing a little of your feelings around this

[feralkittymom]

He's a keeper. And good for you to keep pursuing this. I had much the same experience with my T, and although countertransference can make the work more complex, if recognized appropriately, it can also enrich the process. Those feelings don't necessarily have to be an aberation or a hindrance--they can be genuine and reflect the best of what the relationship can be.

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

He's a keeper. And good for you to keep pursuing this. I had much the same experience with my T, and although countertransference can make the work more complex, if recognized appropriately, it can also enrich the process. Those feelings don't necessarily have to be an aberation or a hindrance--they can be genuine and reflect the best of what the relationship can be.

Thank you FKM, I agree. I used the word countertransference and he said he was reluctant to use that word, because it insinuated the feelings were a response to transference, and he wanted to be clear that he owned them as his own feelings, originating in him (we said that they're probably a mixture, but it's impossible to untangle the origins completely).
I can't imagine this being anything less than positive going forward; you are right that it could be a complication, and I welcome that caution, and I also agree that managed appropriately it can enrich the therapeutic relationship. I hope (and suspect) we both have the awareness and openness to make that possible.
Right now I am basking in the glow of feeling cared about, and I feel like I can indulge in that feeling just a little

[cinnamon_roll]

Echos,

I'm glad to hear that you and your T were able to talk about it all. Did you bring it up? Did you also talk about you feeling kind of dissociated in the session that was at the beginning of this? Just curious...

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

I used the word countertransference and he said he was reluctant to use that word, because it insinuated the feelings were a response to transference, and he wanted to be clear that he owned them as his own feelings, originating in him (we said that they're probably a mixture, but it's impossible to untangle the origins completely).

Your T sounds amazing. I'm so happy for you that your T is self-aware enough to own his/her part of what's going on in session and to talk to you about it - so that you would be able to understand what's been happening between the two of you, that's simply wonderful. That's the ideal, really, but I've met enough Ts over the years who weren't able to do this and blamed everything on the client...

Also I loved how careful he was around "labelling" all this as countertransference. He seems to be very much aware of nuances and differentiates very carefully.

It seems to me that you are able to learn and grow from this experience. And your T not only seems to be an awsome T but also a wonderful role model for you.

Best wishes, c_r

Originally Posted by cinnamon_roll

Echos,

I'm glad to hear that you and your T were able to talk about it all. Did you bring it up? Did you also talk about you feeling kind of dissociated in the session that was at the beginning of this? Just curious...


Your T sounds amazing. I'm so happy for you that your T is self-aware enough to own his/her part of what's going on in session and to talk to you about it - so that you would be able to understand what's been happening between the two of you, that's simply wonderful. That's the ideal, really, but I've met enough Ts over the years who weren't able to do this and blamed everything on the client...

Also I loved how careful he was around "labelling" all this as countertransference. He seems to be very much aware of nuances and differentiates very carefully.

It seems to me that you are able to learn and grow from this experience. And your T not only seems to be an awsome T but also a wonderful role model for you.

Best wishes, c_r

Thank you CR, I really felt like I had to address it the minute I sat down because it had been consuming me and making me miserable all week, so it would have been incongruent to ignore it, and I don't think I would have been able to discuss anything else when I was feeling that way towards him. We didn't discuss the dissociation because we spent the whole session on the rupture, which seemed most urgent, but I do plan to discuss it with him at some point.
I was so impressed by his honesty and, as you say, the care he took in helping me to understand exactly what had been going on for him, and where it has come from.
You're absolutely right, he is a wonderful role model; as a trainee T, experiencing such an awesome therapeutic relationship has been so important and he has set a great example for me. He's also giving me the perfect space to navigate my own internal landscapes.
Thanks so much for the thoughtful reply.