[rainbow8]

Does dissociation result in not being mindful, or does not being mindful result in dissociation? Is not being present in a session always mean you're dissociating? I'm confused because lately I'm not present, or not mindful, but I don't know why that happens. Like when I hugged my T last session but didn't feel it. I know I was hugging her but I didn't feel it.

I was away last week so I didn't have a session. I want very much to be present tomorrow. I want to be able to look at T and not look through her. I don't know if that's dissociating or not. I'm there but I'm not there. I suppose the terminology doesn't matter as much as how do you stop that from happening? It doesn't seem like I'm not grounded. I'm just not mindful, not present. For some reason the concept of dissociation isn't clear to me. I know it's like daydreaming but I don't want to daydream during my session! I'd appreciate feedback. Thank you.

[retro_chic]

I would also like to understand this stuff better too. I am finding my last session with T difficult to remember, like I remember what the topic of conversation but not the actual words that were said except for small bits and pieces. I get very anxious during sessions when things start to get "deep" so I guess this is my way of dealing with it. I am going to ask my T about this next time I see her so I will let you know what she says!

[Ellahmae]

Does dissociation result in not being mindful, or does not being mindful result in dissociation?

I would answer this (for me) that they are two different things. For me dissociation happens, I don't chose it - I have a hard time getting out of it. Mindfulness is something that can be worked on by paying attention to the current moment. So in short, (again, for me) dissociation results in not being mindful. Two separate things that by using mindfulness I can try to overcome dissociation. That probably doesn't make any sense. This is something worded a bit better (Mindfulness vs. Dissociation). I agree more with the Mindlessness is an issue and Dissociation is an issue each have their own different underlying reasons for occurring but you can use mindfulness to help overcome dissociation. That was a rambling circle of words - hope it made some sense.

Is not being present in a session always mean you're dissociating? I'm confused because lately I'm not present, or not mindful, but I don't know why that happens. Like when I hugged my T last session but didn't feel it. I know I was hugging her but I didn't feel it.

No. Sometimes not being present is just the mind saying 'nope, not today can't handle anymore' but that doesn't necessarily mean dissociation. I also suffer from both derealization (foreign world) and depersonalization (not with my body). So a lot of the time I can't feel my body because my mind separates it from me.

I was away last week so I didn't have a session. I want very much to be present tomorrow. I want to be able to look at T and not look through her.

Can you work on this with her? Tell her that you want to work on seeing her and not looking through her? Could your non-presentness (I know not a word) be a result of fear of connection again? Or the strength of that connection? Hence, not feeling the hug from her - you want it but you don't? When I'm feeling like that in session we spend the session working on looking at her, telling her what I'm seeing, talking to myself to her about everything going on through my eyes and my body and I find it greatly helpful and something I'm finally learning to use in my everyday life, on my own without her prompts - they are becoming 'natural' to me to focus on every little thing during the day, telling myself what I'm doing, how it feels etc.
Not sure if any of that helped feel free to PM me if you have any questions, etc. That's my "two cents" on the topic.

Mindfulness is about achieving a state of awareness and focus on the present moment and your feelings within the moment. If you are not being mindful, that does not mean you are dissociating. We are rarely mindful in our everyday lives, when we are focusing on tasks or other things but that doesn't constitute dissociation.
Dissociation is about disconnection from our surroundings or parts of ourselves. I have only recently begun to recognise my experience of dissociation; my mild experience includes my vision going white, not hearing or understanding what is being said and confusion about what is real or what has occurred. More severe episodes can include a sense of separation from self or multiple personality disorders. It's a psychological phenomenon and not to be confused with not being mindful (although mindfulness techniques may help as grounding exercises to prevent dissociation).

[Ellahmae]

Echos - thank you for making more sense out of what I was trying to say. I tend to talk in circles

[awkwardlyyours]

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

Mindfulness is about achieving a state of awareness and focus on the present moment and your feelings within the moment. If you are not being mindful, that does not mean you are dissociating. We are rarely mindful in our everyday lives, when we are focusing on tasks or other things but that doesn't constitute dissociation.
Dissociation is about disconnection from our surroundings or parts of ourselves.....It's a psychological phenomenon and not to be confused with not being mindful (although mindfulness techniques may help as grounding exercises to prevent dissociation).

I totally agree. And, I'd venture to say that trying to go directly from a state of dissociation to mindfulness is a rather tall (and I'd say near impossible) order -- instead, I mostly just try to get to my generally mindless mundane state of being

Originally Posted by Ellahmae

Echos - thank you for making more sense out of what I was trying to say. I tend to talk in circles

Your explanation made sense to me!

[unaluna]

Ellah - i liked your reply very much too. Esp the part about just talking about what you are experiencing in session. It really takes the emphasis off whatever the t is doing. Like we can make the t a blank slate whenever we want to. Which i think should be sometimes, as sometimes we seem to get stuck on what they are doing instead of us.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by retro_chic

I would also like to understand this stuff better too. I am finding my last session with T difficult to remember, like I remember what the topic of conversation but not the actual words that were said except for small bits and pieces. I get very anxious during sessions when things start to get "deep" so I guess this is my way of dealing with it. I am going to ask my T about this next time I see her so I will let you know what she says!

Thanks, retro. I hope the responses helped you too.

Originally Posted by Ellahmae

Does dissociation result in not being mindful, or does not being mindful result in dissociation?

I would answer this (for me) that they are two different things. For me dissociation happens, I don't chose it - I have a hard time getting out of it. Mindfulness is something that can be worked on by paying attention to the current moment. So in short, (again, for me) dissociation results in not being mindful. Two separate things that by using mindfulness I can try to overcome dissociation. That probably doesn't make any sense. This is something worded a bit better (Mindfulness vs. Dissociation). I agree more with the Mindlessness is an issue and Dissociation is an issue each have their own different underlying reasons for occurring but you can use mindfulness to help overcome dissociation. That was a rambling circle of words - hope it made some sense.

Is not being present in a session always mean you're dissociating? I'm confused because lately I'm not present, or not mindful, but I don't know why that happens. Like when I hugged my T last session but didn't feel it. I know I was hugging her but I didn't feel it.

No. Sometimes not being present is just the mind saying 'nope, not today can't handle anymore' but that doesn't necessarily mean dissociation. I also suffer from both derealization (foreign world) and depersonalization (not with my body). So a lot of the time I can't feel my body because my mind separates it from me.

I was away last week so I didn't have a session. I want very much to be present tomorrow. I want to be able to look at T and not look through her.

Can you work on this with her? Tell her that you want to work on seeing her and not looking through her? Could your non-presentness (I know not a word) be a result of fear of connection again? Or the strength of that connection? Hence, not feeling the hug from her - you want it but you don't? When I'm feeling like that in session we spend the session working on looking at her, telling her what I'm seeing, talking to myself to her about everything going on through my eyes and my body and I find it greatly helpful and something I'm finally learning to use in my everyday life, on my own without her prompts - they are becoming 'natural' to me to focus on every little thing during the day, telling myself what I'm doing, how it feels etc.
Not sure if any of that helped feel free to PM me if you have any questions, etc. That's my "two cents" on the topic.

Ellahmae, your reply helped a lot, and was very clear! Thank you very much. The article, on the other hand, was confusing to me and not helpful, LOL. Yes, I will tell my T that I want to work on it with her. She is always interested in how/if I perceive her, and if I'm present or not. I'll also ask if she thinks I dissociate.

My reluctance to work on this in my session is that nothing else gets done but being present is worth it I think. I will try to skip my "report" though a lot happened in the 2 weeks since my last session.

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

Mindfulness is about achieving a state of awareness and focus on the present moment and your feelings within the moment. If you are not being mindful, that does not mean you are dissociating. We are rarely mindful in our everyday lives, when we are focusing on tasks or other things but that doesn't constitute dissociation.
Dissociation is about disconnection from our surroundings or parts of ourselves. I have only recently begun to recognise my experience of dissociation; my mild experience includes my vision going white, not hearing or understanding what is being said and confusion about what is real or what has occurred. More severe episodes can include a sense of separation from self or multiple personality disorders. It's a psychological phenomenon and not to be confused with not being mindful (although mindfulness techniques may help as grounding exercises to prevent dissociation).

Thank you, Echos. That makes sense to me.

Originally Posted by Ellahmae

Echos - thank you for making more sense out of what I was trying to say. I tend to talk in circles

No, I repeat. Ellahmae, you weren't talking in circles.

Originally Posted by awkwardlyyours

I totally agree. And, I'd venture to say that trying to go directly from a state of dissociation to mindfulness is a rather tall (and I'd say near impossible) order -- instead, I mostly just try to get to my generally mindless mundane state of being

Thank you, awkwardlyyours.

Originally Posted by unaluna

Ellah - i liked your reply very much too. Esp the part about just talking about what you are experiencing in session. It really takes the emphasis off whatever the t is doing. Like we can make the t a blank slate whenever we want to. Which i think should be sometimes, as sometimes we seem to get stuck on what they are doing instead of us.

Wonder if that's what I'm doing, making T a blank slate when I "look through her." I don't want her to see me, like a kid who thinks if you don't look at someone, they can't see you. Thsnks, unaluna.

[Ellahmae]

"My reluctance to work on this in my session is that nothing else gets done but being present is worth it I think."

It is worth it. Maybe one of the most important things you can do in therapy is learn how to be 'present' in your sessions and life and thus finding more happiness and strength in you. I think your T (from what I've 'heard' about her) will be 'excited' to work with you and help you gain insight into yourself.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Ellahmae

"My reluctance to work on this in my session is that nothing else gets done but being present is worth it I think."

It is worth it. Maybe one of the most important things you can do in therapy is learn how to be 'present' in your sessions and life and thus finding more happiness and strength in you. I think your T (from what I've 'heard' about her) will be 'excited' to work with you and help you gain insight into yourself.

You're right about my T! The other aspect of being present is to help with my anxiety. That's why she suggested meditation (just being aware of my breath) twice a day. I can't worry about the future if I'm totally present. Or maybe that's being mindful. She always asks where she should sit. I think I'll ask her to sit a little closer today so I can see her better. I'll post how it goes.

[Ellahmae]

Hope it went well today, rainbow.

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[rainbow8]

Thank you for asking, Ellahmae. I can't believe it's after midnight when I finally have a chance to write! I had an interesting session. I was right about T's chair. The first thing she asked when I told her I want to work on being present was
is my chair too far or too close?" She said it was important to get it just right for me so I don't get nervous about her sitting too close but she's close enough so that I feel connected.

Then I asked about not being mindful vs dissociation. She said not being mindful is conscious, like you're thinking about your grocery list when you're supposed to be listening to a lecture, but dissociation is unconscious. I was surprised when she said my not being present IS dissociation. She says it happens when I feel emotions but get anxious about them or they're too much for me.
She asked if I was present a few times during the session. She says she can tell when I'm not because I look to the side, and not at her. I said I've always done that with people, and it may be shyness, not dissociaition. We talked about some stuff, and I realized I wasn't totally there. She said she's glad I am aware! At the end, when we hugged, she asked if I could feel the hug. I could!

It was a good session but I feel a little disappointed because it went so quickly. I am going to notice how I am with others. I told T that I don't stay present with others, either. I don't have direct eye contact, either. Getting too tired to write anymore.

[TrailRunner14]

Thank you for this thread! I'm trying to understand this myself.

I've posted this on another thread, but I'd like to share it here since it is related to what I'm trying to understand.

In my way to talk with my counselor, my hands and feet get this tingling, like electricity. It's not really strong starting out, but it's there! If there is something important that I know I'll share with him, it gets stronger the closer I get to his office.

A couple of weeks ago, I got to his office and was sitting in the waiting area. The tingling was there but not really strong. The minute he walked in and said "hello" it felt like a bolt of electricity hit the bottom of my feel. I jumped because it was so strong.

Another time, I was talking with him about a really hard thing to share. My fingers and feet felt like they were "buzzing" it was really weird! Then it was like what we were talking about, the past, overlapped into the present. That was really weird. I didn't realize that it had happened until several days later. It's like I was getting pieces of what happened a piece at a time. If that's sense.

I'm trying to figure out how to decide if the tingling is a sign of me being not there. I also don't remember what we talk about. Maybe a couple of topics but not much content. Does that mean I'm not there? I feel like I am, and my counselor will ask me and I tell him I feel fine except for the tingling in my hands and feet.

I full believe that I will remember what we talk about. I don't.

Does this make sense to anyone?

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[Ellahmae]

Makes sense to me. I also tingle sometimes before I dissociate. I don't recognize it all the time but over working with my T we have figured out this sign so now it's one of the words I use when I can notice it and have time to tell her before I dissociate.

Originally Posted by TrailRunner14

Thank you for this thread! I'm trying to understand this myself.

I've posted this on another thread, but I'd like to share it here since it is related to what I'm trying to understand.

In my way to talk with my counselor, my hands and feet get this tingling, like electricity. It's not really strong starting out, but it's there! If there is something important that I know I'll share with him, it gets stronger the closer I get to his office.

A couple of weeks ago, I got to his office and was sitting in the waiting area. The tingling was there but not really strong. The minute he walked in and said "hello" it felt like a bolt of electricity hit the bottom of my feel. I jumped because it was so strong.

Another time, I was talking with him about a really hard thing to share. My fingers and feet felt like they were "buzzing" it was really weird! Then it was like what we were talking about, the past, overlapped into the present. That was really weird. I didn't realize that it had happened until several days later. It's like I was getting pieces of what happened a piece at a time. If that's sense.

I'm trying to figure out how to decide if the tingling is a sign of me being not there. I also don't remember what we talk about. Maybe a couple of topics but not much content. Does that mean I'm not there? I feel like I am, and my counselor will ask me and I tell him I feel fine except for the tingling in my hands and feet.

I full believe that I will remember what we talk about. I don't.

Does this make sense to anyone?

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[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by Ellahmae

Makes sense to me. I also tingle sometimes before I dissociate. I don't recognize it all the time but over working with my T we have figured out this sign so now it's one of the words I use when I can notice it and have time to tell her before I dissociate.

My counselor and I have talked a lot about it, but I have not found anyone else that has experienced it. Thank you for telling me that you have!

I guess that would mean that I am mildly dissociated before I get there. It seems to be kind of like a shadow in the background waiting to see what's going to be brought out. In the case of the overlap of the memory, I would guess that would be like a zip line, and it took me out.

Do you have any success in stopping the process once you realize it is happening? The tingling has become such a common thing now that it feels like it would happen and I wouldn't know until after the fact.

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[TrailRunner14]

I guess that would be practicing mindfulness?

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[Ellahmae]

I have severe dissociation so right now - no, I cannot stop it. There are also a lot of other factors that play into it that I'd rather not discuss but I get tingly - like a burning painful tingle in my hands, sometimes my feet. Only recently have I been able to actually connect with and feel my body. My suggestion would be, what T and I are going to work on in a couple of years, is when you start to feel the tingling really tell yourself you're okay, where you are, and feel your earring or pants or anything around you and tell yourself what your feeling, ground yourself - push past that tingly feeling, push it away and be mindful of your now.

[TrailRunner14]

Thank you so much!! Forgive me if I unsettled you. Mine are doing the same thing also.

I will try what you suggested! Thank you again for sharing this with me!!

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Originally Posted by rainbow8

Does dissociation result in not being mindful, or does not being mindful result in dissociation? Is not being present in a session always mean you're dissociating? I'm confused because lately I'm not present, or not mindful, but I don't know why that happens. Like when I hugged my T last session but didn't feel it. I know I was hugging her but I didn't feel it.

I was away last week so I didn't have a session. I want very much to be present tomorrow. I want to be able to look at T and not look through her. I don't know if that's dissociating or not. I'm there but I'm not there. I suppose the terminology doesn't matter as much as how do you stop that from happening? It doesn't seem like I'm not grounded. I'm just not mindful, not present. For some reason the concept of dissociation isn't clear to me. I know it's like daydreaming but I don't want to daydream during my session! I'd appreciate feedback. Thank you.

I disassociate a lot. Multiple times per session and throughout the day. Disassociation for me is leaving my body and going elsewhere. Sometimes I don't even know where I've gone, I've just zoned out.

Being mindful of where you are, your surroundings can help ground you and the people around you. I have a similar thread where people left a lot of good advice on grounding techniques. I began using a bracelet this week, it's plaited with lots of charms so there are lots of different textures. My partner also holds my hands and strokes them. If you take a look at my thread, you might find some of the replies helpful to you.

[Sannah]

Hi Rainbow,

I think of a person not wanting to be present because they are uncomfortable being present so they wish to escape.