transference as violation

You must be kidding. Positive stories could be disturbing? I'm sorry, but you are not going to make me feel guilty for posting on this forum about how much therapy has changed my life. If I am expected to be compassionate towards those who have been traumatised by a therapist (and of course I am! how can I not be compassionate when people are hurting?), shouldn't those people also be happy on behalf of those of us who have had good experiences?

And again, if someone who has been damaged by therapy wants to post about it here and get support from other members, no one has a problem with that. No one has ever said that this is unacceptable. In fact, there is a lot of care and compassion around here for those who need it, and I have yet to see a post that says victims of therapy abuse should just get over it and on with it. No one here thinks that.

Surely you jest.

The inordinate intimacy, the idealization of the opaque therapist, the asymmetrical attachment relationship which can mirror child-parent and bring out so much longing, the uber-caring nature of the therapist, the desperation of some clients who've been deprived of intimacy… my god the whole bloody thing is set up to induce this.

In my view, therapy is largely a game of seduction (unless it's short term counseling for relatively superficial issues). What happens next seems quite variable. I do think it amounts to dangerously toying with a person's need for love and intimacy. If only the therapist "handles" it right, the client will be saved. Jeez, that's a big "if". It is also a manipulation, I believe, because even the most astute client cannot necessarily work out what is driving the therapist or who they are behind the role.

I have read dozens of threads on PC alone where the client describes feelings of love, desire, obsession, longing for a therapist… despite the therapist being professional and doing nothing specific to provoke it.

I don't fully understand why this makes those of you who are okay with your therapist or therapy so upset. I don't think vilifying OP or those of us less than enamoured with the set up of therapy is going to help your cause.

Exactly. I really don't get the outrage.

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It's one thing to have a bad experience with a T or even multiple Ts. It's a whole other thing to hate Ts and therapy. I mean, if one dog bites you does that make all dogs bad? Even if multiple dogs bite you, are ALL dogs bad? Come on.

My ex-T abandoned me. And the board said it was ethical! I had an ex-T try to hospitalize me when I was doing well. I had another ex-T who did absolutely nothing for me. Do I hate Ts? No. Do I hate therapy? No. I had some bad Ts. I now have a good T who has helped me deal with the abandonment of ex-T. I'm still dealing with it!

People move at their own pace. And yes many people who get bitten by one dog generalize it to a fear of all dogs. And it was psychologists who terrorized that small child (little albert) with the white rat and made him afraid of all small white objects.
Come on.

Could you please elaborate on how the therapeutic relationship is like living under the Taliban?

Well, at least 99% of people who generalize their hate of Ts avoid Ts now...

But posting their hatred isn't going to get much support except for othets who have generalized.

If people posted about their experiences rather than generalizations, then we would have something we can support. But supporting hatred isn't productive or healthy.

I see little if any hate. Certainly hurt, questioning, skepticism, disdain, and not just swallowing the party line - none of which is hate.
But, we all are entitled to our opinions.

I believe she's referring to the fact that Sharia law has the underlying premise that men simply cannot control themselves at the sight of a woman's hair or ankles - hence the women have to wear burqas. After that I think the analogy with clients and therapists in the context of this thread should be clear.

I think the OP was posting about his experiences. And from that stems his view of therapy. To me, given what happened to him, the fact that he now holds that view of therapy is completely logical.

Eta: also I don't get a sense of hate from his posts. Pain, yes. To say a system is flawed is not the same as hating it.

I don't think that if people aren't in
agreement with something, it means they are upset or outraged about anything whatsoever.

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My opinion...

"They" have their own forums for a reason (Clients betrayed by Ts). What's the point of that forum if they keep posting their "distain" here? There's a reason for that forum same as there's a reason for an ET forum. I say keep the hatred out. It's why I left that forum. Too much. Now it's spewed into here.

Well, this thread has a lot more posts than the I like my therapist thread. People seem quite interested in this topic. And there is always blocking a poster or not reading a thread if one finds it not to their taste.

I don't think that what she was saying, I think she referred to an idea that a man and a woman sitting in a small room in close proximity inevitable would want to go to bed together, hence according to sharia law they should be kept apart and woman should be covered .

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I'm not sure what forums you're talking about, but they should not be thought of as "they." Everyone here is trying to make sense of therapy, and life. Everyone here has suffered in some way, either from therapists or non-therapists. I don't think ghettoizing those with different viewpoints and experiences is helpful to anyone, either here or in real life.

I was trying not to be too critical of what is an abysmal comparison. Women under the Taliban were banned from school, working, leaving the house without a man, showing skin in public, accessing healthcare delivered by men, being involved in politics, could be beaten or stoned, rape was rife. That is NOT the therapeutic relationship by a long shot. It can be disempowering, asymmetric, difficult to weather at times. But really ...

"Its like Shariah law, like living under the Taliban" - it certainly sounded like that was what she was saying...

I find it rather sad that somebody would even consider hearing positive experiences about anything "disturbing". They wouldn't feel happy for other people but rather feel "disturbed". That's such a strange notion. I hope it's not really the case

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I don't think OP is outright hateful. I believe he has been hurt by an incompetent therapist, which is very sad, but his hurt is manifesting in anger towards the whole profession and it's making him come across as very judgemental. Whether or not that is his intention is a different matter. He has every right to be angry at the therapist who damaged him, but he has taken it so much further, and I am bothered by it despite how some people are making a very valid point that I should not be taking it personally.

As for the Taliban comparison, I'm pretty sure it wasn't meant literally. No one here thinks this discussion is even remotely close to being as bad as Sharia law.

I think maybe this isn't 100% fair? To use another example, I hate Mother's Day. People on Facebook talking about how great their mothers are, wishing their mothers happy mother's day, knowing that if I go out to brunch or dinner there will be lots of celebrations with mothers at the center of them. It's all very painful to me because I lost my mother when I was young. Maybe I 'should be' happy for people who still have their mothers around well into middle age, but it's actually an extremely painful day for me, and all this mother/child happiness around me reminds me of a terrible loss and a pain that haunts me terribly.

So I could see how hearing about people's happy experiences with therapy, where therapy has proven to be an excellent experience that has been amazingly helpful and healing or whatever, could be a painful or disturbing experience to someone who had entered therapy in good faith hoping for a similar outcome and who is feeling wounded by an adverse experience.

No one said that therapy is like sharia law at all. At some point someone said that the whole set up of client and therapist sitting in a small room promotes sexual desire. Many disagree. Many think men and women can be in the same room just fine. No one compared therapy to taliban.

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Exactly. That makes no sense to me, and I, too, find it quite sad if that is really the case.

Maybe I didn't quite go far back enough so apologies for that - but I stand by not flinging around Taliban comparisons with a pinch of salt.

I can understand that, and I'm sorry to hear that you lost your mother at a young age. Being reminded of that in such an "in your face" kind of way must be very painful for you. However, it seemed almost as if Bud was trying to make us feel guilty, somehow, for having had a good therapy experience and sharing it because those who have had bad experiences are disturbed by it. The difference between the two "sides" is that "our side" seems to share our OWN experiences, whereas those who have been damaged by therapy are saying that therapy is inherently harmful and violating. I have never said anything along the lines of "all therapists are wonderful!" because that simply isn't true. I have seen plenty of evidence on this forum to know that some therapists are incompetent and unethical and have thus caused serious harm. I would never question or invalidate these people's experiences. So how come it's okay the other way around?

BF, I apologise if I interpreted that post incorrectly. Sometimes I see your arguments as accusatory, but maybe that is some sort of transference on my part.