Realising that your t is human

I feel like I am on trial here. My own experience with my clients is not what is concerning me right now because I would never do this my own clients which I why I am having weekly therapy and supervision.

I allow her to do it because its how I have been treated all of my life. I realise my boundaries have been crossed by almost everyone I have known.
This is part of my process to move away from this situation and towards healthier situations. NO matter how often people tell me I need to do it in my own time, nobody elses.
t was crossing boundaries and I think she knows that. I will wait and see what she says this week.

You have such a good heart and so much good insight for this forum. I really hope you can figure out what is best for you. I know you're in difficult situation.

Is it possible that my questions are from a place of curiosity and illustrative of one of my favorite therapeutic techniques? Do we repeat what we have experienced but have not dealt with? Are you angry about your boundaries having been crossed by almost everyone you know?

Mona, I am really concerned for you, and I say what I am about to say with the greatest of compassion and genuine caring, having been there myself and knowing how horrific that place is.

What is going on here is in no way 'grey'. What this T is doing is b&w unethical and you, through no fault of your own but probably immense vulnerability, are now trapped by her.

She has reversed the roles on you, made you responsible for her and her well being, turned you into her caregiver, made you 'special', created 'secrets' and fostered an absolutely unwarranted and wrong sense of obligation in you. All in the name of your interests, and all on your dime. You are right, she needs help. But you do, too. And as much as the pair of you are tangled up together in this hermetically sealed drama, she is no longer able to truly help/support/care for you, and you are not the right person to do it for her.

I'm sorry. I know that's a lot and it sounds harsh. But that's how it seems to be. And just like a maltreated or neglected kid, you're doing everything in your power to patch her up & make her OK again so she can once again care for you the right way. Or taking the role reversal on the chin because it is the only way you can keep the
relationship. Or whatever - only you know.

My litmus test these days is: what would I say to my 20 year old daughter if she came to me with this dilemma? Do you have a similar way to get some distance, put yourself back in the frame (because you DO matter), and wonder about how the rest of the world might expect to be treated, in this scenario?

Hey. I can't judge you for wanting to protect your T re other Ts. 10 years on, I still do it. It's wrong, because I owe her nothing. But I do it. Because I am still inexplicably, primally bonded to her in s deep and horrible way. Or at least that's how it feels.

I agree re not talking to Ts in your own town. Despite everyone's best intentions, it's salacious and enticing for them, and they just can't help
themselves - the usual rules sort of soften and lax. And somehow, they always guess who it is.

You know you can do online therapy though, right? Or if you have the resources, do what I did: get on a plane and go to another city. Whatever you do, please open this up to somebody else who can be there just for you right now and make it somebody who has absolutely no connection to T.

Sending you peace, comfort and the hope of safe haven.

PS my T was the Chair of my country's professional body and remains v active and well regarded in running its complaints function. For real.




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I am glad that you clarified that your questions are out of curiosity. I get very defensive sometimes but thats just my own stuff. Sometimes I can feel attacked on here and I wasnt sure why I was feeling that with you but it is definitely my own stuff
This is a conversation I had had with t the week before this crazy session. We talked about how my boundaries had been broken so many times in the past. She tries to get out the anger but it doesnt work, I am angry at her for doing this to me but I am also saddened that she is struggling so much and worried for her health. I think we do repeat the past over and over until we learn what we need to from it. Life is funny that way, it keeps giving us a lesson in different guises until we learn from it. Thank you Brazen, you have given me some grist for the mill.

Wow, I am learning that this happens quite a lot in therapy and on this forum which is really worrying. Your t is also highly regarded. I wonder if they use their status to protect them when their ethics are called into question. I have heard some really horrific horror stories of how accrediting boards will always protect therapists first. After all who would believe a client before a therapist.
I have talked about ts to other ts and mostly it doesnt help, they all protect each other. One of my tutors described the therapy scene as incestuous and I am finally starting to believe her. They all know each other, its frightening.
The bond between a t and client can be very powerful and therein lies the problem with vulnerable clients. My t has used my past to her advantage. She knows my boundaries have been torn down and now she is using this to lure me in. I am sorry your relationship with your t was so painful and destructive. Were you able to process is with another t?

Thank you Puzzlebug for your kind words

I have no problem knowing they are mere humans and I never thought a therapist had their personal life together better than any one else. If anything, I think they are all batshit crazy and if one of them does have their personal life reasonably together - it is probably by accident or luck. I never thought therapists escaped the usual life situations.

I would not, however, pay one of them for them to tell me about their problems.

I am realising too that 99% of them are in fact batshit crazy! I would have thought my t was one of the more sane ones. She is usually very with it and shows no emotions but my impression of her has changed forever and that is a loss for me but also a blessing because I saw her more compassionate side

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You can still love her yet not allow yourself to be brought down with her.
It is interesting that you are taking care of her.
I'm sorry you're going through this.

In the instance you describe, she was not bring professional at all. A T breaking down in session is clearly not there for their clients. Instead, she pulled some sort of role reversal on you. It serves no therapeutic value and is not helpful, nor ethical.

Basically, she should have held her crap together and outside of your session. If she felt so bad (they are human) she ought to have taken a day off, spoken to her supervisor or whatever. She chose to 'contaminate' your session, placed undue burden on you. That is *not* professional, nor is it reflective of a competent T.

She may have been helpful in the past but she doesn't seem to be doing you much good presently.

Mona, you are so kind and you clearly work so hard at all of this. I am sorry your therapists haven't been able to treat you with the kind of care that you really deserve.

This post makes me a little sad on your behalf. My therapist just drips with compassion, and he's able to do that without burdening me with his troubles. (I am aware he has them - he's mentioned his own therapist and a few details about his background. But he keeps them so far away from me.) I wish your therapist had always shown her compassionate side to you. You deserve that, and for it to show up in more than a moment of her weakness.

I feel like you have such a good heart, and you deserve a therapist who will see that and be able to meet you where you are at. I hope something good happens for you.

Lol...I always look forward to reading your posts.. You tell it like it is and don't filter it, yet you show compassion for others .. And sometimes I giggle when I read your posts😊😊😊

Hi Mona
It must be a strange experience for your therapist to break down in front of you, her client. But at the same time I imagine it might be a little refreshing to see a human, not so perfect side of her.. Having said that I don't know how beneficial this therapist is for you but only YOU can determine that. When I have questioned my therapist's abilities I think back to when we first began working together to where we are today.. There are definitely more pros vs cons.
Follow your intuition and trust that.. 😊😊

Mona, I'm sorry you have to go through this with your T. It's very unprofessional of her to break down to a client. She must not be getting the help she needs in her own life which is a big mistake in her part. You are very kind but if she does it in front of another client she may not be so fortunate.

I think it's very accurate to say that Ts are not necessarily better at their own lives than anyone else. They should have their sh** together enough to know when they need help and not bring their own stuff into someone else's therapy. Unfortunately, I've also come across and heard of many, many batshit crazy ones.

I agree with 1stepatatime in that I am very fond of your posts Stopdog. I wish that I could be more like you sometimes. Thanks. (notice no exclamation marks or emoticons...had to refrain myself)

Thanks skies, I really do love her and not in the erotic way. I love her in another way that I really can't describe. I love her like a daughter loves a mother, I always cared for my own mother as a child so why wouldn't I care of my t.

I agree that presently I only seem to be hurting with her. My attachment for her has grown the closer we get. I wondered why she didn't take the day off, if I was in her situation I certainly would have taken the day off. I think she is using work as a distraction. She always schedules my appointments after difficult things. This is my fault because I asked her how she was and invited her to tell me if she was ok. T is really professional that's why I am so shocked that she broke down with me.

I am so confused about the nature of our relationship now that it almost hurts.


Thank you Pennster, that's a really kind and thoughtful post. I wish it didn't take all of this for t to show her compassionate side too. I knew it was in there some where. She can be so compassionate and understanding and sometimes so hard it's a mystery. I have felt she has been distant and detached for a long time and no wonder with all of this going on. I can handle her but I really hope vulnerable clients haven't been affected. I am glad your t is ethical and compassionate. I bet you two work really well together. My t has a really kind heart and at times I have been blown away by her kindness but was blown away by her sadness last week.

It was refreshing to see this side of her, she let me in and allowed herself to be vulnerable in front of me. It was really beautiful. I did cry with her because I felt her pain and it overwhelmed me. She has helped me so much, I have grown so much with her but also been hurt and wounded to the core.

I really hope she can contain these emotions because I can imagine a client reporting her. I really hope this doesn't happen. Her breaking down should never have happened but better it happened with me rather than another client.


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Mona, I've been seeing t1 for 9 years and he has shown his human side to me a few times. Some times when he has shared something from his life that parallels something in mine (as in a family member going to prison). And there have been a few times over the years where he has said that he is off his game but will still meet with me for a check-in session if I want (when there has been deaths in his family). Because I am so attached, I choose to still meet with him, but I also go in knowing that we're not going to do "work" that day.

I wish your T was able to do this; to say that she is not up to doing her work without her needing you to take care of her. I definitely understand the attachment and how impossible it is to just walk away. I wonder if adding a different t, not to talk about t1, but to just help you work on your own stuff while you sort out what to do with t1 relationship would be an option.

Mona, I think it's interesting that you are in a situation where you are choosing not to report your T who was pressuring you about reporting your abuser. Have you thought about this at all?

Not at all until you pointed it out! So do you think it's ironic of her and hypocritical? I know she is putting her needs first in both instances, last session and trying to get me to report my abuser when I am not ready.

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I wish my t was more like your t kecano, at least you know where you stand with your t and they are being authentic.

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It's not your fault mona. She ought to have had a handle on her emotions. The fact she didn't undermines the professionalism you say she portrays. *She* chose to bring her personal life into the therapy room & into your therapy space.

Also, i question her wisdom in 'always scheduling [your] appointments after difficult things'. Makes me wonder whether she isn't in too deep, herself. I don't like using these words but maybe some sort of counter-transference taking place. That might explain the blurring of boundaries here.

I feel you are right, there is definitely counter transference going on.
T has done a lot of therapy and a lot of work on herself in training and group processing. When you say in too deep, what do you mean by this?
T is just going through something very difficult and all the work in the world would not get her through this. She should take some time off. All of my alarm bells are ringing because I am afraid she will move away or kill herself.

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Hi Mona, you mentioned up thread that you cared about her like a mother, and so would want to take care of her like a mother, and it made me wonder if you're repeating a really old pattern here?

You know that we're not supposed to take care of our mothers or our Ts, right? It's their job to do that for US and it's wrong when they put us in that position (either as children or in roles where there is a power imbalance).

It's almost like you're not even questioning what is going on here and accepting that:

- it is ok for her to turn to you for support and for you to provide that - despite the professional roles and boundaries that exist for a reason

- your needs don't matter any more (what's happening with the stuff you went into therapy to deal with? Where's that at while all the focus is on her? Even if you're talking about it with her, I'll bet your energy is still with her)

- it doesn't matter what happens to you (you made a comment that she's lucky it's you, not another client who might report, like whatever she does doesn't matter because YOU DONT'.
That's awful, Mona. You have as much right to protection as the next client. You don't have to report, but don't give away your sense of mattering.)

- just because she has done her job (for money, let's be real) in providing psyc services to you, it's yours to provide them back to her (for nothing - but worse, at the expense of your own healing)

This role reversal, impaired therapist trip requires us to put aside our usual, healthy understanding of the world in order to function in THEIR messed up one. It's insidious and compelling and so, so hard to pull out of.

Forget about her for a while. Let's talk about what's going on for YOU in all this.



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By 'being in too deep', I simply meant she (seems to have) lost her professional 'distance' or objectivity. Instead, there seems to be a blurring of boundaries (or role confusion) where she seems too subjectively enmeshed with a client. If you had any transference towards her, she just did a heck of a lot of damage imo.

I find it really worrying reading about a T breaking down in session. What does that say about their ability to carry on therapeutic work with any client. When she can't even take care of herself.

Yes it's a really old pattern Longing, I didn't realise it was so internalised until you pointed it out. I have always looked after my own mother, her moods, her needs, everything came before me. I was never allowed to feel anything or have anything. I see this happening on my therapy too.
I think I am a bit lost in all of this, there is never anytime for me. It's always somebody else's issues and feelings.this is why my sene of identity has always been so low and fragile!

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I do have transference for her and she does know this, it certainly feels as though she is encouraging my transference. Last time she asked me z out my feelings towards her I told her I loved her, she didn't respond very well. I was heartbroken

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