Impact of Knowing Personal Info About Your T

The thing that struck me most in your original post was not the snooping or the baiting but the reason you gave for doing it. You wanted her to feel as powerless as you feel. Not judging that at all - it is what it is. So what is it?

The second thing I thought was that your therapist must be somewhat scared. You have been dropping hints about knowing various tidbits of personal information which she probably doesn't expect a person to find from a general look on the internet. So she knows you know things about her and other people in her life, but she doesn't what you know, how you know it, or what you intend to do with that information. She does know that you are not being honest. She has no idea of your intentions, but is likely well aware that you were deliberately taunting her.
If I were her I would have reason to be alarmed. Was that as far as you intended to go, or did you plan to do more? I know you know you wouldn't have done more than that, but she wouldn't.

When it comes back to it you did it because you felt powerless. You didn't really do it to hurt. You didn't do it because you are some crazed stalker. You did it because you feel powerless and you hurt, and you don't know how to make it feel better (yet).

At the heart of it you are simply both human beings.
Talk to her.

I wonder why this time she didn't actually just ask how knowing all that makes you feel. After all. It is what it is.

Nothing you did was illegal. If it's on the internet it's public. That's the reality now. So if she didn't want that info out there, well she should have been proactive about it. I don't think you should feel guilty about it except for the part where you dropped hints about her private life. That is a bit manipulative and I'd understand that she'd be angry. Honestly I'd tell he the truth. Like I said, researching her is completely normal for a client in the context of therapy.

I have searched my T and found out information about her that she hasn't told me. She's quite open and honest, so if I asked her something about her personal life she would answer.

However, I have no desire to bait my T because I wouldn't ever want her to feel uncomfortable around me or my knowing this info. If I told her I knew what I did, she would explore it with me and my reasons for searching her.
For me, knowing little bits about her makes her seem more human, makes me feel more connected.

The issue here is that you have baited your T to make her feel uncomfortable and it worked. She has every right to feel uneasy.

If I was in this situation I would tell T, the power difference is obviously causing you some great discomfort along with what you have done.
Personally, for me, this would get in the way of getting any work done in therapy.
Or find another T who can accommodate your needs and work through it with new T.

I am in no way judging you, I can completely understand why you did it.
You could come clean, express why you did it and what you feel about doing it, then hopefully start again.
She may well refer you out, unfortunately, which she has every right to do so.

But what is worse? Coming clean, easing your conscience and getting it off your chest and being terminated, or keeping it to yourself and letting it eat away at you, and your T feeling uncomfortable and terminating anyway?

Could you write it down and hand it to her at the beginning of your next session? Or even at the end? (I have a habit of dropping bombshells at the end)!
Could you email it to her?

I really hope you can figure this out and I hope you post about what decision you made and what happened!



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If you explain your reasons, especially the powerlessness you felt, she may understand your behaviour a little better. She also might not realise the information you have is available online, so if you explained how you acquired it, that might prevent her imagination working overtime thinking up elicit ways you could have found this stuff out.
If it is too hard for you to sit and outright confess, how about writing it in story form?
In terms of therapy, I see it as "everything is data" meaning that your behaviour in therapy is part of the picture of who you are, and discovering the behaviours which cause you shame is an important step on the road to healing.
I do hope when you explain your actions and reasons to this T that she responds well and sees this as an opportunity to facilitate change.
I believe that an effective therapeutic relationship requires mutual trust, so it follows that you must have an honest and transparent conversation if you want to continue therapy with her.

If a T uses and abuses a client, then I say, be up for the same treatment in return. It's not a one way street.

Is there anything to suggest the T has used and abused the client though.

I didn't read anything in the OP that suggests the T used and abused them. With that, I don't think the T should be up for any such treatment more than anyone else.

Anything on the internet is fair game, I think that's been established. If you didn't hack into anything or pay for information then technically you did nothing wrong. The baiting is bit different and I think a lot of people would initially react the same way that this T did. People are not always aware of their full digital footprint until it's presented to them by someone else, so that can be a little unsettling (I am not talking about only therapists, but anyone).

That said, if there is nothing threatening about what you presented her with, then I think once she got past her initial surprise she should be able to handle this. I'd think she might even be interested in what you were hoping to accomplish with the baiting. Yes, she may terminate if she doesn't feel comfortable, but she also might not. The only time I think a T should feel the need to terminate is if it's emotionally damaging to them personally, stalking/threatening or involving children, but that's not the case here. Although the stuff about her ex is pretty personal info - its his personal information, not hers so it's not really affecting her. And she should know that if he is posting stuff online then it is no secret to anyone that knows her, including clients. She might be naïve or feels entitled to more privacy than she should (it seems like a lot of Ts feel this way), but you can't control that. So I think you should address this in the way that feels the best for you and not worry about your T so much. She should get over it and if she can't that is her problem, not yours.

I agree with some of the other posters that there is nothing wrong with searching and finding whatever publicly available information. The internet is out there for everyone and it is every individual's personal responsibility how much they let out and how they deal with it if people find out and confront them.

I might be wrong... but my feeling is that perhaps the therapist reacted so strongly more to the baiting, which she may have perceived as manipulation, rather than to the actual knowledge of her personal stuff. Perhaps scared that there might be a more complicated plot in the background than just online search as the source.

I would make a decision how to deal with the situation considering the potential long term impact, i.e. do I want to carry on this shameful feeling without resolution? I think it is probably unlikely that the T will leave the topic alone if you go back and basically there is no real confession to be made as she is already aware that you know those things. And strictly speaking, letting her know that you found the info online would not reveal anything wrong, but perhaps a discussion on the method of presentation of her information could be mutually beneficial. Also to make her aware that some clients react to her therapeutic method in such a dramatic way.

I am not sure why the concern here is that the therapist now might feel unsafe in her personal life or that it's been intruded upon. It is not as though the OP is parked outside her house and accosts her every time she comes out, or is making threats, or is mailing her compromising photos, or whatever. If the therapist feels her personal life has been violated, I get that, but that is not the issue she should be addressing in therapy and it shouldn't be a cross-examination of the OP - she should be concerned about the effect of this incident on the therapeutic relationship. She should be asking why did you need this information, why did you go so deep, why did you reveal that you knew these things in this way. Maybe if the OP goes in next time and is honest, they can have that conversation. If instead it's all about the therapist feeling violated or castigating the OP instead, therapy is not being done in that room.

I have more problems with people driving by their therapists' houses than I do with people doing research on the internet about their therapists' personal lives. The first to me is an actual invasion of space, the second need not have any negative consequences for anyone, unless the information is used as the OP did, or worse.

It's a sad catch-22. If the T was capable of dealing with it in a therapeutic way, she wouldn't have done the cross-examination but instead handled it much more skillfully (probably the substance would've been the same but technique would've made all the difference) -- ergo, OP wouldn't be in the situation that she is.

So, at this point, I don't have much faith in this T's ability to deal with this stuff in any way that serves OP's therapy goals. I'd say then that OP chooses to come clean or not depending on what OP feels would work best in the long term.

I'm also amazed that despite seeing OP for 4-5 years (regularly I presume), the T missed all this stuff for so long (should've figured out OP's issues even without the baiting). I have a hard time imagining how something that affected OP so deeply wouldn't have surfaced (even without her hinting about it). So, I really do have to wonder what exactly the T was doing all this while.

I have been seeing the first one I pay for 5 years and she is totally clueless. Some of them are just not that swift. The one I see often expresses surprise when she finally gets stuff I have been telling her directly for years. And sometimes she thinks things are all better (by magic I presume) because I don't give a list weekly of everything that she has failed to help with. She will assume something, I will correct her and she will say "I thought it was better because you don't talk about it anymore" and I say "I don't talk about it anymore because talking with you about it was useless and more frustrating than it was worth -so I just stopped telling you" = Quelle surprise

Maybe it's just me that sees it this way, but I would assume that this therapist is going to terminate because she said she would not charge you for that last session. To me, that means, she has checked out as a therapist. She is probably freaked out, not knowing if her emails or phone have been hacked, so she's basically in self protection mode and unable to help you get to the source of what's going on that you need help with. Personally, I felt chills reading that you wrote stories based on information you found, as a way to make her squirm. I think it would take a lot for anyone to get past that and be the helper, but maybe someone in that role is supposed to set things like that aside. Anyway, the main thing is that from what you wrote, I would guess she can't be there for you as a therapist to sort this out.

I had a therapist terminate me without warning because I had been getting progressively worse and she couldn't handle it. The very first words out of her mouth that session were, "Do not speak. I have things to say. I'm not taking your money now or ever again." So that's why the money reference your therapist made caught my attention.

I'm really surprised at the thought that Ts aren't entitled to some degree of privacy, or that people who are associated with them in some way now or in the past aren't entitled to some degree of privacy by virtue of their connection to someone who chose to be a T.

I know if someone I was involved with in a professional capacity pitched up at my desk with information about my family, friends and ex partners I would be freaked as all hell and yes, I would feel my privacy had been violated. I agree that if a T doesn't have the foresight to lock down her internet presence then the information is out there in the public domain and is fair comment. However for everyone connected with her to need to watch their back because her client might find her through them or use their private information against them, again how many of us would be ok with that level of enquiry from people in our professional lives.

Yes she needs to find a way through it but I don't think it's unreasonable for her to want to know where the information was obtained from and the purpose the client intends to use it for. For example, is the fiction for publication or sharing with others. Who might know some of the people or situations? Is it ok for me to open a piece of fiction and recognise my situation written by someone I don't know and who doesn't know me?

I think folk here expect their T to be ok with behaviour they would never accept in their own professional lives, from their own clients, students or associates.

I don't think anyone has said that therapists aren't entitled to privacy. They have said that 1) anything on the internet is publicly available knowledge, and 2) that the therapist should be handling the situation differently - more like, you know, therapy.

Neither of those is the same as saying "therapists aren't entitled to some degree of privacy."

The OP went in and tried to intentionally rattle the therapist. And it suceeded. And people are surprised that the T is not reacting with complete composure? The therapist did not charge for the session which I think was within ethical bounds.

I've "Googled" my Therapist, I think that's pretty common these days in the internet age. it's not hard to find stuff and if you good at the 'google-fu' you'll find plenty. I too have found a few personal details about her Ex-husband that affect me but I would never imagine 'using' it to goad or antagonize our relationship. I would never bring it up in Therapy as it does not pertain to my life and it's not my business.

I think most people can relate to the curiosity and even the compulsive need to know more but the bigger question might revolve around HOW you used this information to 'stir things up' as you put it.

My own personal opinion is it's time to be honest with her. Tell her all of it. It's already out there Leaving it 'unknown' an open-ended at this point only makes it worse. You need to get some resolution on this or it will be forever hanging over your head and it will impeded Therapy.

If your worst fear is termination, the best way to avoid that at this point would be to come clean. Be prepared for some reaction from your T, but try to be strong and be honest — perhaps write out what and why you did what you did the best you can.

You could really learn from this experience.
Good luck.

[QUOTE=KitKatKazoo;5241509]. . . In my mind, the problems between us arose because she’s very blank slate-ish, which makes me completely nuts. For example, she might say she was going to be away the next week and I’d ask, “Oh where are you going?,” she’d tell me (in vague terms, like “to the beach” or "Florida"), but then turn it back on me and make a big to-do about how it was important for me to “know” her and what that said about me, blah, blah, blah. I felt like she was deliberately baiting me. . .[QUOTE]

The above part of your posting indicated to me that your T might have a bit of difficulty responding professionally and productively to what happened between the two of you in your sessions if you were to come clean with the amount of searching you did on the internet. It seems, from how your describe your sessions, that your T is very focused on presenting herself as a blank slate. It is often not the most helpful stance for a lot of people in therapy for exactly the reason you describe--it creates a feeling of powerlessness and often shame (as in, there's this person I know nothing about who knows absolutely every little secret about me and that makes me scared). I think that is especially significant since you mention that you come from a family that lived to maintain their secrets. Her response to your "baiting" was very unhelpful and more about her than about what was going on with you. Sure she's entitled to feel uneasy and maybe even a bit scared, but that wasn't the time for her to grill you like you were in the proverbial interrogation room. That is NOT what therapy is about. She should have taken her fears to her own therapy or to supervision. I think things could have turned out a whole lot differently if she had expressed curiousity and interest in what was going on between the two of you in your interactions. Perhaps you might have felt a bit uneasy for doing the digging, but you might have been more wiling to talking about the feelings of powerlessness and shame than you feel sometimes when interacting with you. It would have been a great opportunity for growth!

Personally, I think she handled things horribly and I wouldn't return. As others have said, we are all responsible for monitoring our own presence on the internet. You have every right to go on a search of anyone. Sure, using it to "bait" her was a bit manipulative on your part, but as you said, she helped to set up this response by acting in a secretive manner and continually insinuating that there was something wrong with you because you asked questions--questions, I view as pretty tame and typical in any relationship. Personally, I wouldn't return after she spent an entire session drilling down on you. Sounds like she was ready to start pulling out the interrogation lamps and the thumb screws. Even though she didn't charge you for the session, it sounds like a very unprofessionally conducted session. I hope you consider processing this whole thing with another therapist.

Honestly there is nothing wrong researching t since it's all out there online. But researching her ex husbands sexual preferences is a different story. He isn't even in her current life. We can't really say she should deal with it. If my students want to look up info on me then it's fine, there is nothing for me to be scared of. But if they started looking up my ex husbands sexual preferences and then bait me with them, it would be very problematic.

I think you do need to address your behavior either with this t or with the other one but IMHO it needs to be addressed. I understand you did it because of unmet needs but regardless it's something to work on

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I can relate a little bit to your story, until the snooping around. My PrevT also didn't say much about herself and I got the feeling I'm not allowed to ask a T questions. I've googled her many times, only I didn't found much.
I haven't told her that I have googled her. Last week I found out she's getting married this month. I talked to my current T about this. I was hurt that she didn't told me while she did invite her collegues. She has known me for 5 years, she could tell me something like that. So current T and I have agreed it's best to have at least one session with PrevT when she's back at work, to talk things out and such.
I'm afraid how she will react.

But I don't think I did something wrong. I googled my T. So many people google other people for so many different reasons.
I think researching your T wasn't wrong. But you might went a little bit too far by telling her those stories. But yout T didn't handle it right. She shouldn't have reacted like she did. She should talk to you about this. About why you did it and your behaviour. You should be able to be yourself in therapy, be honest and T shouldn't reject you, but should talk about it with you.

Therapists are entitled to privacy, but the internet is by its very nature not private. I don't think it's unreasonable for the T to want to know how the info was obtained. I think a lot of people are surprised when they find out how easy it is to make connections by looking at pictures on social media. To some people it may be behavior that borders on creepy, but if it's found without hacking or paying for it, it's not an invasion of privacy. Internet savvy people know this and set their social media accounts to private (and insist their kids do the same). I can see why the T was freaked out at first but after that wore off she should have put it in proper perspective - there was no threat and the info was kept in the therapy room. Had the OP used the info against her T in some way by exposing something private that wasn't already online, that would be a very different story, but that's not what happened. Everything was already out there for anyone to see.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't look up a T but I can tell you with 100% certainty that My T does not deserve privacy or respect. Not all T's are the same.

It's not because information is in the public domain that it gives clients licence to do anything in an attempt to unsettle Ts. There is such a thing as behaviour that is ethically/morally, even if not legally, wrong. The info was not even kept private but used to threaten, scare and make another human being feel powerless. Ts have a right to refuse to deal with such behaviour. Especially when the client then gets angry or defensive. I wouldn't blame T if she called it quits.

I would think therapists might be clever enough to realize that clients do not always like being mocked, manipulated, made to feel powerless, hurt, etc and that a client might want to show the therapist what it is like would not be all that unusual.
The therapist was not in danger and unsettling them is not a crime, nor is is morally wrong. I think it is good for them to become unsettled from time to time.
I don't see that clients have ethics to uphold towards a therapist.

I can't pretend to know what you should do, but yes, I've found out way too much about my T. I regret it. I think it's made it more difficult to manage attachment issues. Some things I learned through therapy, like T telling me something personal to clear up a confusing issue w/bearing on therapy; some things I learned via T's secretary offering information as to why I would not be having a session during a particular week. All of the other info I've learned on my own, but it was basically public if one wanted to look.

My T's not a blank slate and I have no problems like you do, so I'm keeping what I know close to my vest and hope nothing slips.

I'm not sure all of what you described would make for a good therapeutic relationship in the future. That would be my yardstick by which I decided how to handle your situation. For what it's worth.