[Longingforhome]

I asked T yesterday straight out: do people like me k** themselves?

His response was so fast...straight out he said 'yes, they do'.

Not a moment of pause or hesitation. I don't know why I even asked the question. But what was scarier was how quick his answer was. Like it wasn't even a bit surprising to him.

We really haven't talked about s***de a lot. And he never made a big deal
of it when I did bring it up. Like he wasn't really taking it too seriously and it was a passing whim. But he went on to say that's what we've been struggling with, on and off, since I walked through his door.

I wanted to email him as soon as I got home to say 'well, I won't be one of those people'. But we don't do email.

Working doubly hard on connecting with life. People. Joy - whatever that is - right now. Damnnit I am the most purposeful, problem solving, fixing person I know. I have to be able to make myself happy.

It gave me a jolt

Happy. Hhhmmm. I've settled with finding myself. Happy can feel false.
Becoming resilient is a better aim.

[ScarletPimpernel]

My T says to aim for content, not happiness. People aren't happy 100% of the time, so it's an unrealistic goal. But to be content with yourself and your life even while struggling is the goal.

[TishaBuv]

Maybe he said it like that to scare you into not doing it. Of course, not all people Sui. It is a possibility and concern.

People like you? What kind of label have you given yourself or has someone else given it to you? Just because others have decided to take their own life doesn't mean the statistics apply to you or you have to act on them. I am glad you are being proactive and determined not to be one of "those people".

[WrkNPrgress]

Originally Posted by _Mouse

Happy. Hhhmmm. I've settled with finding myself. Happy can feel false.
Becoming resilient is a better aim.

I like this response. I feel like there's pressure to achieve some kind of smiling- constantly floaty way of being. That's not realistic for MOST people and what if there's nothing wrong with being Just OKAY with occasional bouts of happiness.

I love this cartoon by The Oatmeal: "How to be perfectly unhappy"

[WrkNPrgress]

Originally Posted by Longingforhome

I asked T yesterday straight out: do people like me k** themselves?

His response was so fast...straight out he said 'yes, they do'.

Not a moment of pause or hesitation. I don't know why I even asked the question. But what was scarier was how quick his answer was. Like it wasn't even a bit surprising to him.

I'm glad you're finding the strength to talk about this openly. Good on you.
I wouldn't assume your T "wasn't taking it too seriously", though. It may be that he didn't want you to feel inhibited by any emotional response on his part.

I believe our therapists aim is to allow a safe space for this conversation so it can be aired out.

Good luck!

[BudFox]

Why do you care what he thinks about this? I think his answer is irresponsible and stupid and I'd be concerned about relying on someone who displayed such poor judgment.

I'm wondering why you asked if you don't feel you would ever commit suicide yourself. Perhaps your question wasn't really about whether people with your problems commit suicide but perhaps that is an underlying fear of yours? It's okay if it is, and maybe that is really what you need to talk to your therapist about if it is concerning to you. It is quite possible to be determined to not be one of those tragic statistics and yet at the same time have fears about it. I don't think that is all that unusual. Most therapists don't get too terribly worried out about discussions of suicide; it's pretty normal discussion actually and they take it in stride. It is at the point that a person moves from thoughts to ideations and plans that a therapist really puts it on the radar as a safety concern.

But there are probably WAY more people "like you" (not sure what that means) who don't kill themselves. I do think it was irresponsible of him to say that and it sounds like something you need to talk with him about.

[feralkittymom]

Must admit I don't understand the idea that acknowledging the reality and its seriousness by a T is irresponsible. I think he gave you a gift: as lolagrace mentioned, you wouldn't have asked the question unless you had some feelings or thoughts or concerns about it, consciously or unconsciously. Your T being so straightforward and treating your question with the utmost seriousness and reality that it deserves communicates that the subject can be explored--that there is no taboo or stigma in its articulation. To minimize your concern--which is what most people in our lives would naturally do-- would be a great disservice to you.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

Must admit I don't understand the idea that acknowledging the reality and its seriousness by a T is irresponsible. I think he gave you a gift: as lolagrace mentioned, you wouldn't have asked the question unless you had some feelings or thoughts or concerns about it, consciously or unconsciously. Your T being so straightforward and treating your question with the utmost seriousness and reality that it deserves communicates that the subject can be explored--that there is no taboo or stigma in its articulation. To minimize your concern--which is what most people in our lives would naturally do-- would be a great disservice to you.

How are you getting all this from "yes they do"? It sounds to me like the therapist responded hastily, which the OP found unsettling.

[feralkittymom]

Because I understand psychological theories of practice which guide how therapists respond. Our reactions to others' responses are more reflective of our feelings and thoughts than to the intentions of others. His response isn't primarily unsettling because of what he thinks, but relative to the degree the thoughts/feelings resonate in the hearer.

[BudFox]

I tend to go for the most likely and simplest explanation, i.e. the therapist did something stupid and upset the client. Good starting point. Perhaps the OP can clarify further.

"The more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation is." (Occam's razor)

[awkwardlyyours]

Originally Posted by BudFox

I tend to go for the most likely and simplest explanation, i.e. the therapist did something stupid and upset the client. Good starting point. Perhaps the OP can clarify further.

Sure, and the "simplest explanation" while seemingly easy to understand can completely miss the point and persist as a serious cognitive bias.

ETA: Just saw the note on Occam's razor. Not to get too dorky, but it's my pet peeve that the phrase is terribly misused in popular parlance and at any rate, I much prefer to apply Hanlon's razor (although neither seems to apply in this case).

[feralkittymom]

Originally Posted by BudFox

I tend to go for the most likely and simplest explanation, i.e. the therapist did something stupid and upset the client. Good starting point. Perhaps the OP can clarify further.

"The more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation is." (Occam's razor)

An assumption that appears simple may also be "simply" ill-informed.

There is much evidence in the literature to support my interpretation of this T's response. Your conclusion is based upon assumptions you leave unrecognized.

Originally Posted by BudFox

I tend to go for the most likely and simplest explanation, i.e. the therapist did something stupid and upset the client. Good starting point. Perhaps the OP can clarify further.

"The more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation is." (Occam's razor)

Well I think you and I are forgetting that therapists rarely if ever say stupid things. LOL.

If the OP was helped by it then great, but it would be devastating to me. Actually my ex therapist did say to me that he wouldn't be surprised if I killed myself one day. Did not help me at all. I think maybe people are just answering with their own opinions here. I sure did. Means nothing really. Only the OP and her therapist can sort it out. I still say it was a stupid thing to say.

[feralkittymom]

What the OP's T said and this: "he wouldn't be surprised if I killed myself one day." are entirely different messages. What your T said strikes me as both nonsensically predictive and harmful.

[SoupDragon]

Maybe the T left out the word "sometimes".

[Longingforhome]

Hi all and thank you so much for the really wide diversity of views: it was an unusual response, but absorbing it further and reading so many perspectives on it, I don't think it was harmful.

Harmful was the response my 'bad'ex T gave me to a similar question, which was 'I'm surprised you haven't killed yourself already'. I think both we're trying to empathize with the depth of my despair, but somehow this T's response actually felt more validating than anything.

I think my surprise...again in further reflection...was that even though I hadn't talked very much about how hopeless and despairing I feel sometimes, somehow he knew it enough to not answer 'what do you mean, people like you?' or question the question. He responded to a really straight question in a really straight manner. And I think there was a mutual, unspoken understanding of what I was asking and saying, in terms of the sorts of issues I am battling with. It worked for us, as T and client. I don't know if it would work for everyone.

It did, though, evoke quite a sense of determination in me about not 'succumbing' to the thoughts and feelings that dog me from time to time. Though having been further down that path before, I also know how hard it is to see any kind of reason, such as it is today, when in that place.

I think what I was really asking was for him to help me not be a statistic. And his response made it feel that he took my question very seriously...and it sort of put us on the same page.

The OP's T sure has a light touch. Even if the OP was objectively at risk, I would expect a more compassionate and constructive answer from the T, who responded with all the empathy appropriate to a multiple-choice exam question. Unless there's some underlying tough-love shock-realization strategy in play, any patient deserves a better answer than a frank prognosis of self-destruction. WTF?

[Longingforhome]

Lefty, the funny thing is, it actually felt hugely compassionate. Like he really got where I was at and wasn't flinching from it.

Yep, there was definitely some successful underlying tough-compassion strategy. Forgive me for criticizing your T's approach; he apparently told you just what you needed to hear.

[Longingforhome]

Hi Lefty, sorry for the slow response, work super busy..
please don't apologize, I really do appreciate all the different perspectives on this