Agreed to two years of Jungian analysis 3 x a week but feel uncomfortable

During my twenties I had depression for a few years, some eating disorder and addiction and self-neglect issues and a history of childhood abuse from my religious extremist parents.

About 15 months ago I finally got a better paid job. One of the first things I did was seek out intensive psychotherapy. I found a qualified psychotherapist who wanted to train as a Jungian analyst and was looking for a 'training patient' for a two year commitment of low cost therapy 3 x a week. I met with her once and after that agreed to start sessions. It was always clear that I was getting low cost therapy in exchange for a two year commitment, but there was no written 'contract' or anything.

After about a month in my boyfriend broke up with me and I was really struggling so I went for an additional session a week, (3 of them in the morning before work at 7.30 a.m. and 1 after work in the evening).

I did notice, quite early on, when I disclosed some abuse to her, instead of responding directly to what I said her response was 'it sounds like you're talking about a dream', which made me feel really invalidated and worried that she might be a bit incompetent or maybe struggle to actually acknowledge the material I was sharing with her (it was a pretty dark story). I brought it up again and it seemed to be difficult to get her to address what I was saying, and eventually when I pointed out that her saying it sounded like a dream made me feel uncomfortable and like she didn't believe me, she said 'I think you are telling the truth', but there was never any direct acknowledgement of how she had handled that situation.

Anyway - I noticed that issue and also that at one point she recommended homeopathy to me (which imho is pretty dodgy and unreliable as a professional recommendation!) - but I just thought - ok fine, I can't expect everyone to think the same way as me, surely even if my psychoanalysis isn't perfect, it's not going to harm me.

Anyway, 4 x a week was a lot of psychoanalysis and although it was low cost it was still adding up every month to more than my rent payment. After a few months of going 4 x a week and repeatedly talking in sessions about how tired I was I decided that I wanted to go back to 3 x sessions a week and told my psychoanalyst that I was too exhausted and was going to drop the fourth session.

She did not react well at all. Her tone immediately changed and she started asking questions like 'Didn't you say you wanted to come for a fourth session?' 'Didn't you say that you could handle big commitments?' 'Didn't you say you were the sort of person who doesn't just drop things?' 'I'm not the sort of person that just chops and changes arrangements' 'Why are you dropping the fourth session?'. I was quite shocked and told her that I was feeling uncomfortable. She kept asking why I was changing my mind and asking similar sorts of questions and I said to her that I was uncomfortable because I felt like they were leading questions and that I'd already explained why I was going to drop the fourth session.

The next time I saw her I apologised, as I felt like I had done something wrong and she apologised too. After that I still felt like I wanted to drop the fourth session but I felt like I'd lost confidence in whether it was the right thing for me or not and felt like she knew best and maybe I wasn't going to be able to cope without 4 x sessions a week. It took me another few weeks before I brought it up again and when I did, it again felt very uncomfortable and confrontational. I remember she kept speaking at length about various things and asking me questions and it felt like she kept trying to change the topic. I became aware of what was happening and after one of her questions about a different topic I deliberately ignored her question and just said 'I want to drop the session on Wednesday mornings'. She seemed to just ignore that and when it came to the end of the session I said, 'ok, so we've been talking about my dropping down to three sessions' and she replied very quickly 'we haven't agreed how that's going to work and this session is ending now' so I responded 'ok, that's fine, and I want to say again that I want to drop the session on wednesday mornings'.

Eventually, I did drop the session on Wednesday mornings but I remained really uncomfortable about how she'd handled everything. Where were the statements like 'it's your choice?' and the recognition that it's completely my decision whether or not to go to a fourth session?

When I have said to her that I was very uncomfortable about how it was handled her response has been to say that it's the way I brought it up and that I should have said it in a different way rather than just informing her I wanted to drop the fourth session, I should have 'shared' with her. This is bearing in mind that I'd been talking at length already about how I was tired and struggling to come 3 x a week before work in the morning, so it would be pretty odd if it was a complete surprise to her. I understand she might be hurt but I think probably that is her 'stuff' that she needs to address, not mine. She's then continued on to talk about how we have an agreement for me to come 3 x a week and that's why I'm getting low cost therapy. I've said 'yes, I know, but I'm talking about how you spoke to me when I said I wanted to drop a fourth session, not my commitment to come 3 x a week'.
She doesn't really seem to have anything to say to that.

Another issue I have had with her is just about what to talk about in sessions. For example, I struggle with sleep and with getting to bed on time and I repeatedly keep myself awake for no good reason and wake up tired in the morning. It's just a kind of self neglect type thing I think. I have brought it up several times and said I'd like to talk about it and she always changes the subject and tries to talk about my morning routine where I tend to get up very quickly and leave the house within about 20 minutes. I have repeatedly said to her that I don't have an issue with my morning routine and I don't particularly need to talk about it. She will then focus in more in it and I never end up talking about the things I'd actually like help with.

I guess it feels like she can't respect my boundaries, or my ability to say 'these are my sessions and I'd like to decide whether or not I come for an extra session, I'd like to say if there are important things I want to talk about that matter to me and if there are certain topics about my life that I don't really want to discuss that's also up to me'. It feels really uncomfortable.

Lately I have been talking about two of my cousins, I've probably spoken about them over across about 10 sessions. She repeatedly forgets their names and gets my two cousins mixed up and every time I have to explain who is who again. I understand she probably has loads to remember and lots of clients, but I guess after a while it just feels like it's not going to be very helpful if we have to go right back to the start every single time I talk about something.

Other weird stuff that's less important but still bothers me is that when I started talking about my ultra orthodox religious father and how his beliefs affected me, she ended a session early. I know she's christian and I was careful not to say anything that was insulting or hurtful about religion in general, but I still noticed she didn't seem to want to carry on having a session when I brought these issues up.

So my question is - I committed for two years and that's why I've got low cost therapy. I don't want to break my commitment.

So far I've just stuck it out. But what do I do? Another year of this is going to cost me four and a half thousand pounds (GBP) - but also I know I'm her 'training patient' and so if I quit, she's probably going to be a year behind in her course and need to start again and her qualification will be delayed. I don't think that would be the right thing for me to do, but I honestly don't know what's best. I really feel like if I try and discuss it with her she's just going to start trying to blame me and the way I'm saying stuff to her and it's not going to be productive at all. I don't know how much she's really doing stuff wrong - I think as much as anything we might just be a really bad fit and I'm not getting a lot from it, but I don't want to break my word.

Any recommendations!? Sorry for length of rant.

Also it would be so helpful to find out how bad/good the stuff she is doing is - I just don't know if it feels bad and rude to me or if she's actually doing stuff an analyst shouldn't do.
Thanks.

Leave.

I doubt your therapist could even spell 'Jungian analysis' if her life depended on it.

She sounds like a total whack job. I would not return. She does not need you to get any certification--that stuff is based on courses, continuing ed hours, supervision, experience. Certifications have nothing to do with seeing the same client over a period of time, as far as I'm aware. And in any case you certainly don't owe a damn thing to an unethical provider who shames you and breaks your bank.

Sorry this is happening.

Here's my question: Is this service with her, helping you? Do you feel you are progressing and living a life that is, in some way, better for having this T in your life? I would not worry about her training/education etc as that is her concern. If she is not providing you with great service then you don't owe her continued service. You have the rights in this situation. Good luck.

I apologize, it is late and I was only able to read half your post as I am tired. I will finish later after sleep. What I got so far is that this person is new and may have not worked out their own stuff. My big question is if this person is doing their own therapy or having supervision?

You are not to blame for wanting to change, or be guilted or shamed (this is how I saw the T response to you). You have a right to validation.

I saw a Jungian T a few years ago, was my favorite all time T. Sadly she could not handle my trauma history, so I had to leave. Her response was "forget about it and go to college." Well, it's 10 years later, I'm finally in college, but forgetting about it may never happen.

A client can quit at any time. Hiring a therapist is not the same as being conscripted into a service you do not want nor is a client obligated to the therapist.

She sounds dodgy. No contract? You both have a right to walk away

Hi everyone
Thanks so much for replying so quickly.
You're right that I did feel guilted and shamed and it did make me uncomfortable.
I do want to change therapist.
I think the issue is that I have committed - Jungian analysts have to see a training patient for two years and that's why I'm getting low cost therapy, because I have said I will go for two years.
Yes, my understanding is that she is in supervision and she should be supervised regularly.
I don't feel very comfortable with her. I feel like a lot of her responses are not what I'd expect from a professional therapist at all.

When I started it was always clear that I would commit for two years.
The association of jungian analysts webpage says:

"Those training to become Jungian analysts may be able to offer places for analysis at a reduced fee and a frequency of three sessions weekly. All trainees have previous extensive experience as psychotherapists and work under the supervision of a senior AJA supervisor. Fees are negotiated with the analyst in training. If you are willing to commit to analytic work for at least two years please contact the AJA office."

This is the arrangement I have with her.

So it feels pretty bad, after a year, to say that I don't want to carry on.

I hope that makes sense... this is why I'm struggling with whether I can leave. I think in a different arrangement I would have left some time ago.

Can you contact the Aja and see what thier opinion is? The commitment may not apply if you are getting poor treatment.

Actually, that is a really good idea growlycat - thank you. I could contact them. It seems like a good plan and I hadn't thought of it.

Sometimes I see other people's situations more clearly than my own. Good luck!!

When I said to her that while I had never had Jungian analysis before, I had had psychotherapy and counselling before, and some of the things happening (like the guilting around dropping the fourth session) were not things I would expect to happen in counselling sessions, and that I couldn't imagine that Jungian analysis would be that different, she started to talk over me. I then brought it up again later and asked her if it would be ok if she didn't interrupt me when I was speaking as it made me feel rubbish, and explained what I was saying again, that this wasn't what I was expecting from analysis. Her response was 'I'm not a counsellor who just nods along, I'm not one of those counsellors who just agrees with everything'.

I asked her why she interrupts me when I start talking about what my expectations of analysis are, and she said because she thought my talking about that topic wasn't helpful for me and she said that I can use my 'wit' all I like, and that I can use my 'wit' in sessions if I want to, but it's not helpful for me.

I guess that made me feel a bit weird as well - I'm all for being challenged in a constructive way, but stuff like that, whether she intended it or not, really made me feel quite upset and hurt. It was something about the way she was saying that I could use my 'wit' all I wanted ... it felt a bit nasty somehow, although I don't know if it was intended that way or not.

I think maybe she was trying to say I overintellectualise stuff or something, which I'm sure I probably do ... But I just think that actually it's supposed to be a professional treatment service, 3 times a week across two years, and I'm paying thousands of pounds for it, so it would be actually very strange if I couldn't have discussions about what I would be looking for during this time and what I'm not comfortable with ... I definitely wouldn't expect to be interrupted when I start talking about things I'm not comfortable with. It's like going to someone who you have a professional relationship with and explaining you're not comfortable with some aspect of the relationship and they won't let you finish speaking about it!

I guess maybe there is something about me that is not working for her as well, otherwise surely she would't be doing this stuff, which is why maybe it's just not a good 'fit'.

Not sure if verbal consent ties you to the contract or not in your country, but what about informing the supervisor of what is going on with this t, and further stating this type of treatment is not what you signed on for and that you will not be returning.

Good point. I dont think she is holding up her end of the contract.

Ok, I'm back after sleep and have finished reading the original post and the new comments.

This sounds like a very bad situation. I don't think you are not being treated properly, and I think what this T is doing is harm.

I did see a Jungian T once and it was nothing like this. She was fantastic. She was more focused on dreams, artwork, and mythology than other T's, but other than those differences she was great. I had no forced commitment. I saw her when I wanted, and only as long as I wanted. I was able to talk about what I wanted to talk about, just like any other good T. Like I said earlier, if she was able to handle my trauma history I would not have left her.

I am not familiar with the "training period" protocol that you speak of. This is the first time I have ever heard of it. I have never heard of patients/clients being forced to see a T for a period of time (unless it was court ordered or inpatient). This seems very wrong to me. The fact there is no written contract makes it seem even more wrong. Why is there no paperwork on this?

I see that this T is inappropriately guilting and shaming you into fulfilling THEIR needs. This is called HARM in the therapeutic world.

Are you responsible for fulfilling their educational requirements?
No.
Are you responsible for fulfilling their emotional, intellectual, physical, or spiritual needs in any way?
No.

Are they responsible for treating you with respect?
Yes.

If you leave this T, who is not treating you properly, and they do not fulfill their educational requirements and have to continue learning how to do their job better, Is this such a bad thing? I see this T as not doing their job properly at all, and failing to understand you and help you. Clearly they need more training. Would you want this T to go on and harm someone else as well?

I would try to get a hold of another Jungian T and discuss this situation with them. Getting a consultation and explaining your situation may help clarify what the Jungian rules really are, and what your rights really are .

I would run for the hills from this one. She is no kind of Jungian analyst I have ever known, and I have seen two for analysis and also studied Jungian depth psychology in undergrad. Nothing that you have described sounds Jungian--not her approach, or the nature of your sessions, her confrontational style, her interruptions, her usurping of your authority to decide things for yourself, her inability to help you sort through abuse....on and on and on.

You wrote that the AJA website says, "If you are willing to commit to analytic work for at least two years please contact the AJA office." Is that how you entered into this arrangement, by contacting them? Because I agree that contacting them about this is the way to go.

I've read all previous posts and could not be more adamant about my opinion. Please leave.

I've had experience with a very similar situation, almost identical to yours. This woman is far more concerned about her dogma than understanding & thereby helping you. She is not flexible & is not respecting your boundaries. I would not expect contacting a supervisor or the AJA to support you either. There's a chance someone could be sympathetic, but it's more likely that they will be inclined to support the therapist's work and you'll be the resistant, problem client and encouraged to stay & stick it out.

This is most likely not a situation where talking this through will improve the circumstances. You've tried & she is already resistant. I suppose one could view it as a learning experience for both of you, but from my experience you will continue to feel misunderstood & feel worse about yourself.

I'm really sorry this didn't work out for you. Sometimes we have to weed out the bad ones to find the good.

Please continue to post here for additional support if you feel the need.

I might tell t that I could no longer afford to come. Maybe that I was sorry to break the commitment but the money is just not there. And then spend the money on something else

Prepare yourself ahead of time for a backlash. It does not seem like this T will take termination easily. I would set up another T for yourself as a safety net. Take Care.

Agreed get yourself another t

if you didnt sign a contract then i think you're free to leave

I agree with all the others, it sounds like she isn't able to respect you or help and is not behaving professionally... So you owe her nothing. Maybe it is a "bad fit" - I suspect that is mostly about her... I think the longer you remain in this "analysis" the more harm she is likely to do. I'm sorry you're going through this, you deserve better!

You are not breaking a contract when you are not being given adequate service.

If I agreed to a surgeon operating on me, then found out he wasn't any good, I'd not let him proceed.

My three-times weekly Horneyan (Karen Horney) analysis made me literally nuts, though my therapist was respectful and largely sensible except believing in the magic of analysis. I became delusional examining my life that much, a state I can best describe as meditation psychosis. (Some people call is a spiritual emergency.) I lost valuable friends and opportunities.

Though every experience is different, I think it important to be aware consumers. If therapy does more harm than good, if it become a weight rather than a support, it's time to leave.