Couch 124 - Discussions & more!

I still have trouble with anger as an emotion too. It is interesting when I start feeling anger at t in a session and if I am paying attention I can watch my own process of turning it around and back onto myself. I tried to explain it to her once and it was so foreign to her. She says she has never had a problem with feeling/expressing anger. Whereas me, it scared the daylights out of me because "what if I am like...."

hugs

Good to know it's not just me, but sorry you deal with the turning it on yourself, too. I talked to T for a bit yesterday morning about the fight, and she said it seemed like I was turning it all back on myself and that she'd feel better if I was angry at H instead. And I know MC was mystified when, in a previous session, we were talking about anger, along with depression and anxiety, and I said I'd rather deal with feeling depressed than angry. (Always comforting when I seem to mystify a therapist, especially one who's been practicing like 25 years...)

LT - I can totally relate to what you are saying and how you are feeling in response to the anger. My H has expressed anger towards me in the same way and it sends me to another place.

I think the same thing too, about him being mad enough to do something like that. It makes me very afraid.

Thanks, TrailRunner. I'm sorry you've dealt with that too. It helps to hear that someone else reacts the same way, though. In marriage counseling today, it almost felt like I was the weird one because I *don't* do that. H was saying today that he broke the glass because he told me to stop arguing with him and I didn't. Then today, he said the wall thing was because I was saying I was upset that he broke the glass (not because I cared about the glass but because it upset me because it felt like violence to me). MC was saying today that we're responsible for our feelings, no one makes us feel a certain way. In other words, I didn't cause H to get so angry that he did those things--that was on H. But from what H was saying, it *was* me... So yeah, it brings out the fear. What if I (unintentionally) push a button even harder the next time?

Lonesome, I replied in the Dear T thread too but not sure if you'll check there as we don't normally reply. It doesn't sit well with me that MC validated the rumblings of threatening and violent behaviour from your H. There is a physical power inbalance between a man and a woman and it's very scary to be on the receiving end of that kind of aggression.
I would think MC ought to be validating your concerns and "Yep, been there" seems particularly inappropriate to me. Violence in a relationship, whether to another person or an inanimate object, is not okay, and you have every right to feel safe in your relationship and your home.
This touches quite close to home for me as I was in an abusive relationship which escalated from wall punching type behaviour. It seems vital to me that MC works out what is going on for him regarding his work with you (you've mentioned handshake boundaries subtly changing) because it's sad that you are not currently getting the safe space you need in marriage counselling and this situation seems to be causing you a lot of unnecessary pain.

Yes, I have done that sort of thing. I have broken my hand more than once.
No it would not scare or upset me if someone else did it

Those are my thoughts too and for some reason my H has blamed his explosions on me too. I rationalize, like you, what if......

Maybe if someone has not experienced being in a fragile place, then they can't understand the reaction it triggers.

Peppermint helps my headaches so much!

Hi Echos. Thanks so much for your response--it's very validating. I just sent MC a somewhat harsh e-mail saying much of what you said here, how once he shared that he'd done the same thing and was being very nonchalant about it, I felt like I knew how things were going to go. Like it was two guys being like, "Yep, been there!" So I felt weird about bringing up how much it upset me. And that I didn't feel like I could open up the way I wanted to about it.

I really have to wonder if there could be some sort of countertransference thing going on here, too. Because it often seems like, when I have some sort of more personal conversation with MC, like about transference or something like that, it's almost like next session he seems very pro-H. I mean, not that he's taking sides, but like it's all "We really need to focus on H a bunch now."

I think of a time early this year when I had talked about how MC just has a calming effect on me, and he spent that whole session trying to insist it wasn't him, that it was about H and how I felt safe with H in there, that it was all about H, and isn't H incredibly great and amazing and the best? And so why didn't I appreciate him more? I'm not proud of this at all, it was a horrible mistake, and I know it wasn't MC's fault, but it was later that night that I ended up cheating... MC and T had talked the next day (with my permission) after I'd contacted each of them about it. When I talked to T after I'd talked to MC, I mentioned how he'd asked if anything in that session had led to it. And T was like, "I knew he'd ask that, because he told me he was concerned because it had basically been like 'a commercial for H.'" Not sure why I'm going on about all this. (For anyone who doesn't know, I told H a few days later and he forgave me--pretty sure I still haven't forgiven myself.)

Yep that's the one I use.

LT - that explains things for me a little better. I didnt want to say anything because i would say to get out. Your actions the previous time kinda say you wanna get out, imo. i dont do anger either.

Honestly, and I'm sorry if this comes across as judgmental of MC, it seems like he's painted himself into a corner by communicating with you individually and not managing the boundaries around that as well as he should have. None of that is your fault.
He certainly shouldn't be minimising your concerns at any point. Perhaps he is trying to readdress the balance of speaking to you individually, but it's not ethical to minimise the experience of one spouse over another in any circumstances. And whatever his motivations, it doesn't seem to be helping you or your marriage which should be his only concern.
I hope you can address this directly with him and H in session because how can you have effective therapy if you feel your feelings are being marginalised in the therapy room?

Yay we have someone coming out to give us an estimate on putting up the cement board and maybe even tiling the walls around the bathtub. We could probably do it ourselves but it would take us 5 times as long and would probably cost us almost as much if you count all the mistakes we'd make and the re-buying of materials haha

I love watching This Old House - they finish three projects in 25 minutes, every week!

I know! Maybe they use magic!

Yeah, I wonder about that too. He's said phone, e-mail, and text are all OK. And he'll generally comment something about them at the start of session (like today, he said how I sent him a text, but I said he didn't to response, so he didn't, and he was just making sure he's remembering that right, that I didn't expect a response. I said that was fine, because even though I didn't exactly say that, I may have implied it by saying I'd be OK and we could talk about it Tuesday in session.) I tend to share what I sent with H, too.

More in a bit.

Punching a wall and breaking a glass would upset me too, if a partner did it. I would be scared that it was building up to something more.

My late husband did this and it did escalate. I hope things work out for you, though.

LT - "Yep, been there!" Meaning I've been the one who watched future ex break glasses, mugs, plates, vases, personal belongings of mine. It is terrifying, and it has nothing to do with whether or not you grew up with angry people. Nor does it have anything to do with being better than hitting you (talk about a low bar to clear). Direct and indirect physical violence have in common the desire to control someone else.

The important question for me is whether he does this regularly, or was it a one-time thing? If it's regular, everyone involved should be taking this way more seriously. If this was the first time, ever, and it seems like he might have learned something, I'd give it a pass. If it became a habit, I'd be outta there.

And I do have to say, I haven't been a fan of your marriage counselor for some time now. This is really long marriage counseling. It's like you're the Lockhorns. And I just find it weird that you guys talk about your transference for him in session with your husband there - does that really help? Plus he always seems to be on your husband's side. The focus seems to be "what's wrong with LT?"

I get incredibly frustrated and pain is the only thing that alleviates it. So hitting the wall, putting my fist through a window, etc. has little to do with violence towards another. If the other seems upset, I leave and beat the living **** out of the wall/window/whatever where they are not. I don't know why it would upset anyone else. I consider it self comfort.

My husband is not the violent type at all but one time my mother was here visiting and she made some snide comment to him (she is famous for those) and he threw his (plastic) bowl he was eating ice cream out of across the room. I didn't blame him one bit. It scared me, and of course made me cry, but I didn't blame him. I hated that I cried because then my mother was all over me about him. But it was her fault in the first place. He has NEVER done anything like that before or since. She just knows how to push everyone's buttons.

I get this.. Sometimes my anger needs to be released in physical ways. I don't hit my kids or husband, I have punched doors (before kids) and I thrown stuff. I don't do it in front of my kids, though I have in front my husband. T says, there are better ways to do that, by having things I can go out pack and throw or stuff it's ok to hit and won't hurt myself.

I wanna go swimming. It's 80 degrees and sunny. Might could do that....

For me, the self inflicted pain /harm is integral

I've never done it.

Displays of destructive anger are certainly intimidating and could be interpreted as a threat of worse violence to come. Not cricket, in my view.

Having said that, I once sprayed my wife with a garden hose during a fight.