Hugs in therapy - only for the clients sake? Therapist doesn´t need our hugs.

Some T:s give hugs, others don´t. I hug with my temporary counselor, a hug when we meet before our session starts. It feels kind of nice but not when I realized the hug isn´t mutual.

It´s always me who takes initiative to a hug and I understand most T:s do it that way, they don´t touch the client unless the client shows he or she want a hug, a handshake or such.

But when I got this thought about the hug not being mutual it felt degrading. That I hug without no form of mutuality. I understand it and my counselor hasn´t done anything, it´s just that if I don´t show I´m about to give her a hug she won´t initiate it. That´s kind of standard, at least here in Sweden, a kind of "therapeutic conduct".

But now I feel sad, it feels in some way dirty (not in an erotic way) to hug someone who doesn´t hug back on the same premises. My counselor doesn´t need my hug, she´s married and has friends and that makes this thought even worse. She hugs me in some kind of "charity act" and it feels deeply sad.

That would be very depressing to me. I would avoid it at all costs unless I could perceive some sort of mutuality or authenticity. I'd rather hug a stranger on the street. Or a cat.

I started to put "Hugs" on your post because I wanted to comfort you, but then thought better about it. Maybe that's how she feels, she's happy to try to comfort or welcome you if you would like it? I would have gladly given you a hug, even though I don't feel the need for one myself right now, but in your post you were sad and I felt a need from withing me to want to comfort you. Sometimes hugs are simple gestures that help relieve sadness a little, but it sounds like it just reminds you, instead, how sad you are.

I was thinking about you today and when Skies wrote about maybe you felt alienated, not just lonely, and how that is really for me such a good word to describe what I and maybe a lot of other people, especially with mental health issues, feel. And it is very, very sad.

But does that have to be "degrading"? It doesn't seem that way to me.

I don't think that not needing a hug means being inauthentic when still hugging. I understand what you mean when you say that knowing that this hug is not mutual in every sense seems degrading. I have felt/thought the same way sometimes. However, I also think that it would be much worse when my therapist would really need a hug from me. What would it mean then? That I would have to be there for my therapist and not the other way around and then it wouldn't be my therapy. In that case my therapist would take advantage on me and satisfy his needs while I'm the one who's paying for it.

Also, maybe a parent-child metaphor can help you? I have two kids and they often come to hug me and I always return the hug. But I don't need to hug them in the same way they need to hug me. Which doesn't mean that I'm being inauthentic when I hug them back. I'm absolutely authentic and I hug them back with all my love I have for them, although I don't necessarily need this hug for myself.

I see the acts a T is doing without his/her own need being involved as acts of love. She does it because she knows you want/need it. She is willing to do it for you, she's not trying to take advantage of you to satisfy her own needs. She keeps her needs out and concentrates and focuses on you. I can see how easily it can be distorted and seen as degrading, while I truly think there is nothing degrading in genuinely trying to do good for another person.

Thanks. Yes, as I don´t have anyone else nearby to get a hug from it feels degrading to me to get one from a person, my counselor, and that isn´t even a mutual hug.

Also, to me that isn´t comforting as the hug is, by natural causes, restricted to that one hour and I can´t just call her and get some comfort when I feel sad. I don´t mean I expect it to be that way with a counselor but the situation raises my feelings of sadness and loneliness. I though appreciate you say you had gladly given me a hug.

I think I suffer from some kind of alienation even if I don´t know the exact difference between loneliness and alienation. I think dark thoughts and I just cry.

Thanks. Interesting. I agree in what you say about if the T was in a real need of a hug and I realize that would be crossing boundaries if the T for example was sad and turned to his/her patients for comfort.

I think what makes me feel it´s degrading with this not mutual hug is that I turn to a counselor for a hug and in life outside therapy I have no one to turn to for a hug. It´s like I only get "fake" hugs.

I can kind of agree it´s a kind act from my counselor to give me a hug or more exactly hug me back when I hug her but it´s also like still being a little child who needs hugs from her mum (or dad).

I don´t think my counselors behavior, giving the hug, is degrading per se but me in that position, getting a hug from her in a not mutual situation is creating feelings of abasement.

That she does this feels like pity to me and because of the relationship we have she doesn´t give the hug because I´m a good friend of hers, her child, her co-worker or such.

How does it feel to you if people put "Hugs" on your posts? Does that feel the same or even worse since it's not even real life?

I have given people hugs when I did not need them, and people have given me hugs when they did not need them, people meaning family, friends, acquaintances.

I think the problem has nothing to do with therapy and more with the absence of others you could hug in your life. Is there any way you could find such people? Join clubs? If you're still in school, try to befriend classmates?

I've heard that people enjoy hugs. Never personally experienced it, but I've heard that. So I don't see why a T couldn't enjoy a hug. Maybe it's 'mutual' - maybe it isn't - I'd think it would be impossible to tell without asking.

I hope you can bring this up with your counselor. Sorry you're feeling low.

The way I see it, pretty much everything that happens in good therapy should be for the client's sake. Your therapist should not be using you to get hugs or meet her emotional needs in any way. That doesn't mean that there isn't genuine love and care in her hugs but that they are happening to serve you, not her.

I also find that asymmetry in the relationship to be upsetting sometimes but I have had therapists who used me to meet their emotional needs and, suffice it to say, I'll now choose upsetting asymmetry over unmitigated clusterf~ck any day of the week.

The only time I've hugged a T is when they asked if they could give me a hug. I would never feel comfortable asking on my own and I think they pick that up after awhile. They don't offer often so when they do, it means a lot.

But why would seeing a therapist at all be on that continuum? If one goes to sort out some of their own blocks to happiness and the therapist is there as an expert professional? Certainly all the advice a therapist offers does not have to be seen as sacred. But they may offer a new perspective on a problem.

One male therapist hugged me after our final session together. I thought it was manipulative on his part because I had fired him and agreed to one final session at his request -- but was quite unhappy with his therapy. I did not initiate the hug. It was slightly creepy.

I think hugging any professional every time one sees them is a bit overkill.

Maybe I'm different than a lot of people, but I am NOT at all into "hugging". I might hug a family member if they approach me with arms open, but it isn't something comfortable or comforting to me . . . personally.

That said, if you're the one who initiates the hug in your therapy situation, why do you find it humiliating or uncomfortable? It's something you're seeking and that's fine. Therapy is for all of us to be able to EXPRESS our needs and wants. But it's also fine for the T to let us know if our wants or needs are out of synch with their wants and needs. Notice that I say that a T needs to let us know what is out of synch with their own wants and needs. I say that because what WE want in ANY relationship isn't what we're going to get. Sometimes the person that we're engaging with isn't "into" what we want or need--AND YES, that includes wants and needs with a prostitute (sorry if I've offended anyone). It doesn't matter who we are, we all get to assert ourselves in a relationship . .. and that includes people we engage with in a PAID relationship, ala, therapy/therapist!

If the T refused to hug or just stood inside your hug limply, I might be inclined to agree with you that a hug is uncomfortable or unpleasant, but it is that person/therapist's right. I might not stay with that T because I might see her as unresponsive or cold. But that's my choice. If the T hugs me back but never initiates a hug or seems genuinely uncomfortable with the hug (ie. she steps away quickly or doesn't return the hug), I might be uneasy myself and I'd have to decide whether or not I'd continue with the T. But if I offer a hug and the person steps into the hug or accepts it readily, I wouldn't be bothered. Afterall, I'm the one (ME) who wants or needs the hug. No intimate act in a relationship is EVER totally even in regard to need or want. That's the nature of human relationships. It teaches us about the pain, vulnerability and hurt in any relationship. We don't always get what we want . . . even when we pay!

But if your counselor "hugs" you back, what's wrong with her not being joyous or overly encouraging about the whole hugging routine? What's so terrible if she isn't as over joyed or excited about the hug? No intimate or physical relationship, in any duo, is going to be equal. There is always going to be someone in the duo who gets more out of the relationship, and the other one is going to be on the lesser side. It is what it is. If you spend your entire life MEASURING out what you get or the other person is getting in the relationship, you are going to miss out on the fun and joy. Might not be how you look at relationships, but as someone who has spent a lifetime vigilantly trying to add up or subtract what is going on in a relationship and NOT paying attention to the fun, joy, impulsiveness, creativity and just plain love in the interaction, I can sincerely say you're going to spend your life in sadness and anguish.

I'm not a huggy person, and I almost never initiate a hug, however if s closer person needs a hug and initiates it I don't mind, and it sometimes makes me feel good too. Unless it's someone I don't know well, then it's just uncomfortable. I would probably never ask for hug from therapist and I wouldn't want him to hug me when I'm sad but he did initiate once when I was going away for a while. I think it was probably more for me than him, not sure, but it did feel right and appropriate and it stayed with me for a while
I think most of the time one person wants the hug more than the other and people often offer a hug to comfort a person, not for their own satisfaction, so I would say enjoy it if you can get it. Or maybe if it was less frequent, not every time you see each other, it would mean more? Maybe once you and your therapist got used to it, it seems more mechanical than genuine, so it doesn't have that comforting effect?

Hi Sarah, did you grow up with a parent who seemed to take care of your basic material needs due to obligation or duty rather than love?

I've wondered about details about your upbringing and might have asked you before. Hope that's not intrusive.

I read what you are saying is that you dont want a hug as obligation, but instead, you want the other person to want to hug you. Because they want to, not because they do it as some kind of appeasment for a client. Sort of like not wanting to go to a gathering to which you were not invited.

There are giving people like though, maybe hard to tell but mabe you are very perceptive and let a lot of information in, which can consist of super subtle micro bits, nearly invisible to some, from your environment- a 'thin ego'. If you have that, then maybe you are picking up on her relational patterns with clients.

I had a mother who acted like anything that had to do with her children was a duty or chore. Your issue reminded me of that. Well thats my issue, but i can identify with a lot of your feelings.

I give you credit for putting yourself out there on this forum all the time. I would love to hear more about your childhood history, if ever comes a time you wish to share.

I relate a lot to your words in your original post, SarahSweden.

I do hug my T but she just stands limply inside it.

Yep, to me those posts also look like an attempt to work out and make sense of some very difficult topics and I commend you for that, Sarah!

Okay, this is going to perhaps sound weird, but I'm going to put it out there:

I'm a hugger. I come from a family of huggers. I grew up around family friends who were all huggers. We hugged every time we greeted each other or parted from each other. So I guess I don't put much thought into hugging. It is as normal and spontaneous as shaking hands is to others I guess (not sure the comparison works because strangely enough I find hand shaking awkward).

However, I don't hug people willy nilly, but I guess I've just gained a sense over the years about which people are also huggers and which are not. I don't go up to people and hug them if I don't get that sense that they are comfortable with hugging. How do I know? No idea. Not sure I can explain it to tell you the truth. I do think it is a bit of an innate personality thing.

With a therapist though, even if they are naturally huggy people, they put that initiation in the place of clients and it makes sense that it is that way. Two of my therapists were big huggers like me. I think we started hugging practically from session one just because we were mutually huggy people and we sensed that of each other. I never asked them for a hug; we just started hugging. My last therapist was not a naturally huggy person, and it was longer before we started hugging, but now when we see each other on occasion, hugging is the first thing we do.

Sarah, I say all of that because you assume that just because a therapist is a therapist, then their hug is fake. While it might be true, it may just be very possible that your counselor is perfectly comfortable with hugging and does so naturally, even with clients, not just as some sort of obligation.

I'm a teacher, and I don't make it a practice to hug my students; I certainly don't initiate hugs. But I have some students who, like me, are huggy people, and at some point they sense it is okay to give me a hug and I am quite pleased to give them a hug back.

Perhaps understanding that some people are perfectly comfortable with hugging others and do so not out of obligation but because they welcome a good hug might help you rethink your counselor's hugs and be willing to accept them at face value instead of analyzing them.

You're right. My T doesn't need hugs either. She gets it from who she wants to get it from and she has her own group of people that she deals with outside of work. She has her family and friends. Some of us on the contrary go into session lacking certain a needs and wants. With continuation of therapy, when we "feel" like we are building a bond with our T I think we feel that need. Whether it's for support, approval, or validation some of us have that desire.

It's true I wouldn't want to hug someone that doesn't want to reciprocate or feels obligated to reciprocate. I had that issue with my T and a fist bump. I took a long break and came back and felt a connection. I wanted to give her a hug but I held back. I fist bumped her one day but I noticed that she totally avoided making eye contact or any sort of acknowledgment of me being in the room towards the end of each session after that. I no longer approached.

I'm sure we are not the only clients that feel this way with our Ts. They probably feel bombarded with hugging and "attention seeking" (I hate this term used by my T) clients. I see it more as a bother to them than anything else and I remind myself that my T would speak to me for 1 minute if I didn't pay her for the session.

I don't understand how the question even arises. Therapists are paid, as I see it, to act. If the therapist acts (hugs for example) in a way the client finds useful, then accept it and go on. They are trained to not be real. The whole set up is unnatural (and every therapist I have ever spoken to has even admitted this). Whether the therapist personally cares or hugs or whatever is starting from a false premise.

I am intrigued by your statement "I realised that it wasn't mutual". How did you realise this? Did you feel like she wasn't invested in the hug? Did she just stand there like a toy soldier when you hugged her? I am genuinely intrigued.

I would find that very difficult, I I thought my T was not invested in our touch, if I thought that she did it out of necessity for me etc etc. I must say that sometimes I feel like my T wants the hug or wants to hold my hands and for me that is more important than it sounds. Somebody actually wanting to be close to me emotionally or physically is still quite a bizarre experience, but through our work together it is becoming more normal for me to accept that it could be possible that other people might want this too.

If I felt like my T was just standing there when I hugged her, it wouldn't have any positive effect for me, but I would certainly talk to her about it. I think it is important and very helpful to be completely open and honest with T, for me anyway.

I am sorry that this is just another thing about your counsellors/therapists that unsettles or unnerves you.

Hi Sarah,

Me, too. Having been through a lot of therapy, I now find PC to be a more comforting, comfortable place for me. It's more of a community, for me. More equal. And where it's not like having friends and family IRL, the anonymity of PC makes it also seem safer to me.

Wishing you the best.

The so what for me is just that we all have different responses to others.

Is it that the hugs (and therapy/counselling itself) bring out your feelings that you are 'other' or in someway outside? When I saw my last T who was blank slate and would almost never share any experiences, or personal thoughts or feelings I felt a bit like that. And I remember when I was very low about 9 years ago I felt disconnected from the world. Now that I'm feeling better I look back and see that as a symptom of depression rather than an actual state of being.

In a way, this is a good thing.

You don't want the Therapist to be acting out of their own need. I think it really is best if that hug is totally for YOU, not out of some misplaced need from the therapist.

I say this as someone who IS a hugger and funnily enough, my therapist was the one who initiated the first hug one session early on. I guess she intuited that about me, or it was a rough session, I don't recall. We hug almost every session since. Some days it feels like she expects it, some days it feels like she's not into it.