Couch 140: Knocking pans

junkDNA · May 20, 2017, 04:14 PM

i haven't been reading PC and feel overwhelmed just looking at it

May 20, 2017, 04:15 PM

(((DNA)))

Do what you need to do to take care of yourself.

atisketatasket · May 20, 2017, 04:16 PM

Socks depends on how cold it is in the apartment (I leave the heat off as long as possible every winter - plus it makes the cats more affectionate).

unaluna · May 20, 2017, 04:17 PM

Timothy Dalton - just so i can say i went to grade school with James Bond

stopdog · May 20, 2017, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

It figures una and SD are on opposite sides of the nature-nurture debate.

So let's test this further:

Boxers or briefs?
Coke or Pepsi?
Microsoft or Apple?
Star Wars or Star Trek?
Sean Connery or Roger Moore?

I'd add reason or emotion, but I think we all know the answer to that one.

boxers
Coke
apple
who cares?
Sean Connery (or even Pierce Brosnan)

stopdog · May 20, 2017, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artemis-within

Maybe I just need to believe that I was innocent. I don't know. I didn't do anything to deserve the crap at home and I didn't do anything to him either. Maybe he was just an evil little monster. I don't know. But I think for the sake of my own healing, I need to decide that he was innocent and had something happen to him that caused him to beat me up, so I can forgive him already. I seem to combine everything I do with therapy, don't I. Goddess I just want to be done with formal therapy so much. This therapy stuff has permeated every blasted area of my life so why do I need to actually GO there still?! Hmph. I need to go work on my story.

I agree about you not deserving ill-treatment. But the nature/nurture part would be your reaction to the ill-treatment. Did you go bully after the boy bullied you?

anais_anais · May 20, 2017, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demunie

I stopped sleeping with my bra on a few years ago. Getting to the socks slowly

I also made the braless sleep transition recently...... and uh, maybe I'm going too far in the other direction but lately I wear a bra during daylight hours maybe two out of seven days on any given week?

I think it was more like a defensive layer (armor-like) than having any real function with me. But when I turned 12, on it went, everyone was doing it, idk

anais_anais · May 20, 2017, 04:30 PM

(((((Jdna))))) do what you gotta do!

lucozader · May 20, 2017, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demunie

Socks. Definitely

Wh... what?

I thought we were friends, Munie. This is just too much.

lucozader · May 20, 2017, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junkDNA

i haven't been reading PC and feel overwhelmed just looking at it

Yeah, I feel ya there. I'm trying to catch up with about three days' worth of posts.

You could always just click the 'mark forum as read' option and be done with it though.

LonesomeTonight · May 20, 2017, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anais_anais

I also made the braless sleep transition recently...... and uh, maybe I'm going too far in the other direction but lately I wear a bra during daylight hours maybe two out of seven days on any given week?

I think it was more like a defensive layer (armor-like) than having any real function with me. But when I turned 12, on it went, everyone was doing it, idk

I pretty much take off my bra the second I get home! And I work from home, so often don't wear one. Can't really get away without one in general, as a 34D (sorry for TMI!)

May 20, 2017, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopdog

I agree about you not deserving ill-treatment. But the nature/nurture part would be your reaction to the ill-treatment. Did you go bully after the boy bullied you?

Ah. Of course I didn't. It would be against my nature to do so. Even though what I experienced from my own parents could have "taught" me otherwise, my nature overrode the "nurture" part. Then again, I did have my grandmother... perhaps that was the tipping point and why I didn't become a bully too.

But here goes my imagination now: what if his nature was pacifist too like mine, but for whatever reason HIS environment/nurture got all twisted up and overrode his nature?

This is hard stuff. I'm not sure my brain is capable of thinking it through....

awkwardlyyours · May 20, 2017, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

It figures una and SD are on opposite sides of the nature-nurture debate.

So let's test this further:

Boxers or briefs?
Coke or Pepsi?
Microsoft or Apple?
Star Wars or Star Trek?
Sean Connery or Roger Moore?

I'd add reason or emotion, but I think we all know the answer to that one.

I'd thought there was a stop-the-presses moment of mutual aversion to wind chimes?

stopdog · May 20, 2017, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artemis-within

Ah. Of course I didn't. It would be against my nature to do so. Even though what I experienced from my own parents could have "taught" me otherwise, my nature overrode the "nurture" part. Then again, I did have my grandmother... perhaps that was the tipping point and why I didn't become a bully too.

But here goes my imagination now: what if his nature was pacifist too like mine, but for whatever reason HIS environment/nurture got all twisted up and overrode his nature?

This is hard stuff. I'm not sure my brain is capable of thinking it through....

Why do some people who suffer horrible abuse become murderers and others become lawyers or social workers or teachers etc? Why do some people who suffer abuse perpetrate more abuse and others become permanent victims and still others don't become either? I don't think anyone has figured that out conclusively.

anais_anais · May 20, 2017, 04:53 PM

I wonder about this every day.

May 20, 2017, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopdog

Why do some people who suffer horrible abuse become murderers and others become lawyers or social workers or teachers etc? I don't think anyone has figured that out conclusively. Why do some people who suffer abuse perpetrate more abuse and others become permanent victims and still others don't become either?

Exactly. I still want to write this story, just for my own peace. It's a huge unanswerable question, so I'll write a story that allows me to find whatever answer lets me forgive him so I can let go of that part of my past too. I didn't realize how much of a weight that is that I've been carrying around with me all these years until I read my friend's post about her son being bullied. I need to let it go, and I think that writing this story will be the means to doing that.

lucozader · May 20, 2017, 05:01 PM

No-one's 'nurture' experiences are exactly the same - two people might both have experienced the same type of horrific abuse, but one of them had a supportive family and friends around them, and the other didn't - just as a simple example. That explains to me why some grow up to be murderers and others lawyers (the moral opposite of a murderer, of course).

Studies of twins do suggest that there's a lot to be said for for the nature side of the argument, though... There are plenty of accounts of adopted twins growing up in very different environments but ending up being strikingly similar people and living strikingly similar lives anyway.

anais_anais · May 20, 2017, 05:04 PM

I'm interrupting this serious convo to share a limerick I wrote about how much I don't want to change into my all-black clothes for work right now:

No no no no no no no no
No no no no no no no no
No no no no
No no no no
No no no no no no no no

stopdog · May 20, 2017, 05:06 PM

There were a couple of books I read when I was little and one was called The Bully of Barkham street by Mary Stolz. There was a book from the other side (a boy who felt bullied) - have you read them?

lucozader · May 20, 2017, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anais_anais

I'm interrupting this serious convo to share a limerick I wrote about how much I don't want to change into my all-black clothes for work right now:

No no no no no no no no
No no no no no no no no
No no no no
No no no no
No no no no no no no no

How odd - I recite this haiku every morning when I have to get out of bed and go to work:

no no no no no
no no no no no no no
no no no no no

Also, you might appreciate this...

May 20, 2017, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopdog

There were a couple of books I read when I was little and one was called The Bully of Barkham street by Mary Stolz. There was a book from the other side (a boy who felt bullied) - have you read them?

No but I am going to look them up! thanks.

I don't know who I want to be the protagonist - the bullied girl, which I know so much more about, or the bully - because I might could learn a lot that way.... maybe I'll write both stories.

stopdog · May 20, 2017, 05:13 PM

I never claimed anyone's experiences were exactly the same. But I don't believe the only difference is just because of an understanding uncle (or whoever). IT might be for some person - but I don't think it explains the differences across the world.

stopdog · May 20, 2017, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awkwardlyyours

I'd thought there was a stop-the-presses moment of mutual aversion to wind chimes?

I think we agreed on something else once.
So that puts us up to two.

lucozader · May 20, 2017, 05:17 PM

It was just an example - meant to point out that everyone grows up with many different experiences and in many different environments. I think it's too complex to ever definitively work out exactly what experiences affected us in which ways. Though to be honest, I think an understanding uncle probably could make a lot of difference, if the alternative was having no emotional support from anyone at all.

Anyway, like I said, I think there is plenty of evidence for both nature and nurture making us who we are.

May 20, 2017, 05:18 PM

I agree with SD. Two children can experience the exact same things, but will still grow up as two different people. So nurture certainly influences development, but so does nature.

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