I was going to write this IST but it was the hardest session I've had for a long time and I wanted to do a thread.
I went in and told him i wanted to read something I wrote after my last session which explores my feelings right after the session and I read him last week's ist post where I talk about feeling he was distant and not present, and that he shut down an exploratory conversation I wanted to have about whether or not on some level I desired a different kind of relationship with him.
After I finished he said "that's more of a recap of the session than your feelings". Then he sat and looked blankly at me. I said "What the he11 kind of a response is that?" He just stayed quiet. I said "I feel like you're looking at me as if I should say something but I've been talking for the last five minutes". I told him i was angry with him. He said he wasn't quiet because he was withholding, but because he didn't know what to do with this. I said I just want him to give a **** and so far this session I haven't felt that he has.
We sat in silence for a while. I said "I don't know what to say T said "so we're in a situation where neither of us know what to say.".
I looked at him and said "I don't want to be angry with you" he said "you don't want to be, but if you are you are."
A little later he said he was confused about what is happening. I said "what are you confused by?" He said he feels like I need something from him to do what I want to do. I said that I want to scream at him "I JUST WANT YOU TO CARE!". He said okay.
He asked me what from last session stood out. I told him the thing about moving house and the way he shut down the conversation about whether or not I, on some level, want a different relationship with him. He said let's deal with moving house first. I said okay. He said he had just wanted to make the connection that I was thinking about endings at a time when I am experiencing lot of endings. I said that it felt like he was responding to an idea of how things go rather than to me. He said that's possible. I said I didn't feel heard and he nodded.
Then he said right shall we move on to the conversation about wanting a different relationship.
I nodded. Silence. I said "Yes". Silence. I said "I've already told you why it bothered me".
T said "Okay, what sort of relationship do you want?" I said "Oh, we're doing this are we? We're just ignoring the fact you shut down this conversation last week and having it now instead?".
T stopped and looked at me. He said he had wanted to make sure we were on the same page about the boundaries. I said "and I have done what to make you think I could be on any other page?" He went quiet for a while and said "nothing.". I said to him that if he was supervising someone who had thought this way about a client he would be willing to explore it with them but he shut me down, it felt like he didn't trust me.
He said that the funny thing is that he feels like I don't trust him right now. I said Yeah, because I made myself really vulnerable and when he withdraws I am really sensitive to it. I feel like I want to defend myself against that now.
T said paradoxically he thinks that I want to be respectful of boundaries with him but I also want to affect him, though he trusts me "not to do the second bit" (which I didn't understand at all - he trusts me not to affect him wtf?)
I said I don't even know what he means by affect him. He said "I think you want me to show you that I love you". I said "I never even asked you to tell me that". He said "I know".
I could see time was up. I said I felt sad and confused. He asked what would help. I jokingly said more time. He said we could agree to an extra 15 minutes. I said okay. So I'll owe you an extra tenner. He said that felt awkward but also part of the frame. I said I didn't want to spend the 15 mins taking about that.
I said to him I don't even know what he means by show me he loves me. I said you show me that all the time, just in the way we work. He said what do you think is causing this rupture then? I said that you haven't been showing me for the last two sessions. (Because he's been withdrawn) I said he went from using the metaphor of us roped together climbing a mountain, To cutting the rope.
He said perhaps when I raised the question of wanting a different type of relationship with him it had scared him, though he wasn't conscious of it.
He said he faces a dilemma with me (he put his hands on the back of his head when he said this which I've never seen him do before.) He said a long time ago I asked him a question like "do you know what to do with this, because I don't" and he felt that he did know what to do, and he knows what to do when the relationship is intense but sometimes he doesn't know what to do "at the top of a f***ing mountain.". And sometimes he gets scared, which is okay, but it isn't okay if he shuts down when he's scared. He said he feels like we need to keep going up the mountain. That conversation felt honest and genuine for the first time it felt like we were communicating with each other. I felt a lot better in those last few minutes.
The time was up. I asked for a hug which was tight and warm. I don't see him for 9 days now. I'm exhausted.

[toomanycats]

Wow, RS, that is a very intense session. I could absolutely feel your frustration with your T all throughout (I would've been frustrated too). I'm very glad he was able to give you the extra 15 minutes and actually admit to his own fear and be honest with you so that, ultimately, you left feeling a bit more secure in the relationship. I'm glad he was able to give you that hug, too. Exhaustion is warranted. I hope you can go home and do something kind for yourself.

[LonesomeTonight]

Wow, that sounds really difficult. I'm glad he gave you the extra 15 minutes--sounds like you were at least able to connect during that time. It seemed like he wasn't really hearing you before that.

Thanks, it was pretty horrible. I still don't feel 100% okay. I think I need to talk more about this affecting him and showing love business because I don't really get it.

[junkDNA]

I'm wondering why he is scared. Possibly because he doesn't know how to handle it and is not experienced with transference. But my paranoid side questions if your therapist doesn't trust himself enough to go there in regards to his own feelings

Originally Posted by junkDNA

I'm wondering why he is scared. Possibly because he doesn't know how to handle it and is not experienced with transference. But my paranoid side questions if your therapist doesn't trust himself enough to go there in regards to his own feelings

But he has 40 years experience he must have been here before.
If he doesn't trust himself, what might he be fearing discovering?

[ruh roh]

Wow. Good for you for hanging in there and keeping him on point with this. It sounds like he's saying that while you are not crossing any overt boundaries, he thinks you are trying to get him to feel things for you that he doesn't think is appropriate? I hope that's not what he means, tbh, but that's the downside of the silence and his not wanting to help you talk this out. Although, he did extend 15 minutes, so that's really promising.

These are your feelings you are exposing in order to find some resolution in yourself, not to extract some kind of emotional currency from him because he has, already shared that he cares (didn't he even say something about his heart?). So from this far distance, it looks like he's uncomfortable with himself and he needs to get that straightened out so that you can explore what's going on in your therapy and what is behind the feelings of disconnection.

[CantExplain]

I wonder: could he be scared of you? If he were, would he admit that?

Originally Posted by ruh roh

Wow. Good for you for hanging in there and keeping him on point with this. It sounds like he's saying that while you are not crossing any overt boundaries, he thinks you are trying to get him to feel things for you that he doesn't think is appropriate? I hope that's not what he means, tbh, but that's the downside of the silence and his not wanting to help you talk this out. Although, he did extend 15 minutes, so that's really promising.

These are your feelings you are exposing in order to find some resolution in yourself, not to extract some kind of emotional currency from him because he has, already shared that he cares (didn't he even say something about his heart?). So from this far distance, it looks like he's uncomfortable with himself and he needs to get that straightened out so that you can explore what's going on in your therapy and what is behind the feelings of disconnection.

Thanks ruh roh. He has said he cares about me (and that he feels that "in his heart") and also a few sessions ago he said he 'Feels love for' me. I never asked him whether he does. Though I was talking about it feeling like one way love at the time and he said "that's a difficult question for a therapist to answer" and I said I didn't ask a question" and he said "yes you did". So it's like he's hearing me asking for things I'm not asking for. Could this be more about him desiring to 'show me love' whatever that means and not being able to own the countertransference? It makes me feel like he sees me as a psiren or something. And it's discomcertingly reminiscent of my first therapist.

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I wonder: could he be scared of you? If he were, would he admit that?

This session I said "I don't want you to be scared of me" and he said "[My Name], I'm not scared of you."
But it still sounds like it, doesn't it?

I sent this:

Dear T,
Thinking about today's session, there's a couple of things you said that I really don't understand the meaning of, and I think it would be really helpful for me if you could have a think about what you meant specifically so we can discuss it next session.
You said that you felt I wanted to be respectful of boundaries but that I also wanted to affect you, then you said that you trust me not to do "the second bit". ie affecting you. So I would really like to know what affecting you means in that context. What do you trust me not to do?
Then when you said I want you to show me love. What does that mean specifically? In what ways would I want that to manifest? I was really struck by the assured tone of your language "that's what I think you want". I was really confused T because I'm not aware of wanting anything from you other than that which you already give me.
I am glad we managed to communicate with each other towards the end. I still feel like these points need clarification though.
Please respond if possible (but obviously save the answers to my questions for next week).
Thanks
RS

He replied:

Dear RS,

Thanks for your questions and I shall give some careful thought to how I might be able to clarify what I meant by each of those statements.

I too was pleased that we were able to find a way to connect in the latter stages of our time together yesterday.

See you next week,

best wishes
T

I'm glad he's going to think carefully about it.

[ruh roh]

I'm glad you wrote him and that he responded.

Thanks ruh roh. Me too. I don't envy him the task of trying to explain those comments.