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  #151  
Old Apr 30, 2018, 09:00 PM
mugwort2 mugwort2 is offline
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I feel sorry for everyone here who was damaged by an unethical therapist. My experience was with a "past life" therapist who raped me. Background I went to see him for past life therapy. He told me his office was in his home. Previously a few years back I saw a man who was an MSW in his home. His office was in his recroom and he was a perfect gentleman. So when this man wanted to see me in his home I thought it was okay. Little did I know that when I walked into his "office" he was completely nude. I was sitting on the couch and then I knew he violated me.
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  #152  
Old May 01, 2018, 05:05 AM
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koru_kiwi koru_kiwi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ View Post
Abusive relationships and trauma are very complex. Look up trauma bonding or even the repetition compulsion.

Not everyone responds to abuse in the same way. Learned helplessness and the fawn response to trauma and danger or threat is quite common in trauma survivors. They also happen to be extremely vulnerable and at times, easily manipulated. Therapists learn what their vulnerabilities and triggers are and some will intentionally manipulate them to keep them around. This is especially the case if a client has attachment issues. Therapeutic relationships can grow into extremely unhealthy tangles of drama similar to romantic relationships; leaving the relationship hurts and so does staying. You ask why would anyone stay with an unethical therapist; perhaps that is something you will never understand until you are caught under the spell of an unethical therapist...

My guess is fear plays a role, albeit, not the only role.

for me, this is exactly spot on. it definilty was the fear that kept me stuck in a very unhealthy T relationship for over 5 years. i was not able to safely terminate from that painful and mind f*%k of a relationship until i fully recognised and figured out how to overcome that fear. it took over a year to do this and i don't think i could have done it without the continued support of my loving spouse, who actually use to accompany me to most of my sessions and witnessed first hand the complexity of the dynamics that were playing out between my ex-T and me.

thank you for explaining this so well
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  #153  
Old May 01, 2018, 07:57 AM
here today here today is offline
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magicalprince identified a factor in the therapy experience itself which I think is important, too.

Quote:
It seems like this is the common factor people are finding in this problem... that question, "what about the client?" Is frequently the last consideration. Which is so wrong when this field is only supposed to exist in the interest of the client.
So, for me, I had (stuck, dissociated, unconscious) fear (of rejection and abandonment) in a social experience where, once again, I didn't count.
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  #154  
Old May 01, 2018, 09:28 AM
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amicus_curiae amicus_curiae is offline
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As this thread continues, and as I read the stories of those who have suffered harm from unethical therapy/therapists, I’m heartbroken and sickened and I question whether my defense of the practice of psychotherapy is ethical or not. I question my motive, of course, my right to even speak on the subject based upon my personal experiences and education. The latter, I think, gives me just as much right as another. But in thinking of my motive I can only say that I am driven to defend psychotherapy based upon that same degree of experience and education but with the admission that I am not an expert in the practice of clinical psychotherapy but only an expert as a recipient — a client/patient — of same. I’m one voice, if I’m allowed to speak at all.

In reading many of the posts to the psychotherapy sub-forum I’ve questioned — old Richard Pryor joke, “I said this to myself” — the expectations of psychotherapy patients and if these expectations were based upon a type of consumer-intuition or upon the guidance of therapists. I’ve questioned both the quantity of my childhood traumas and the lasting affects of same and the quality of, the intensity of, my mental disorders, wondering if I’m too sick or not sick enough to understand my own expectations of psychotherapy. If the traumas of the death of one parent and a (relatively short) abandonment by the other, early childhood sexual abuse and adolescent sexual abuse don’t qualify as trauma, I’m fine with that. I would dispute, though, anyone who would say that these experiences should in no way colour my adult persona nor have an impact upon the development of my disorders.

Of my disorders I’ll use the sentiments of another user, *Laurie*, and say that I think that I’ve been bipolar since birth, and my more personal observation that I can tick almost every thought and behaviour in textbook definitions of my remaining disorders. I’m within the “sick enough” to the “far too sick” spectrum when gauging the expectations of psychiatric treatments — psychotherapy and medications — both before and continuing treatments. I was no naïf when entering into treatment. My education had equipped me to acknowledge that my thoughts and behaviours were abnormal and that I entered into treatment with the reasonable expectations that I would never be cured but might expect degrees of functioning maintenance.

But then all hell broke loose and I found myself a guest of the State. That’s another story.

My freedom was short-lived and if I were to describe the time between my release from my last State host to my current functioning I would say that I am not even sure that I’ll be able to tread water much longer. As expected, psychiatric care didn’t cure me and my failure to maintain any vestige of hope isn’t because of failed treatments but rather that my continued disorders are more resilient, that I’m experiencing new and exciting disorders, and, to a large degree, the failure of my body.

Now.

Expectations v. experiences of psychotherapy. (Purely anecdotal.) In reading a number of threads in this sub-forum it seems that some people expect therapists to be substitutions for not only confidantes (reasonable) but best-friends/lovers through a kind of degree of demigod who operates as the conscious of the client, with the surrender of all agency. I’ve never experienced that middle ground but I’m familiar with the psychiatrist as demigod, making decisions for me rather than with me. I’ve always entered State facilities willingly and have never been adjudicated as dangerous to myself or others. I tired at last, at long last, and surrendered. I would argue that by surrender I exercised some agency making psychiatrists a little less than my conscious.

Again, purely anecdotal: Most of the queries that I read here seem to place the psychotherapist in the role of best-friends/lovers. “My therapist has other clients,” “I expected my therapist to throw me a surprise birthday party,” “Therapist is in Aspen and not answering email messages,” etc. I think of these types of statements and questions to arise from having unreasonable expectations but I’m not certain of the source. I’m not sure if a particular therapist might suggest these expectations as reasonable or if clients/patients assume these expectations as reasonable. Or if there is a middle-ground here, as well.

I made an overly-broad and misleading statement here in another message, writing that I was the product of good psychiatric care. The truth is that I’m the product of my physical and mental disorders and that it’s only because of the care of my physicians that I’ve lasted this long. I lost consciousness about 15-minutes ago, face-down into my mattress. I don’t know how much longer I’ll be able to sustain this lonely-freedom.

As I read some of — certainly not all — the stories of unethical and harmful treatment by therapists, what concerns me most, maybe, is the certainty that such treatment is not only prevalent but that there exists a conspiracy amongst (either mental or all) health professionals that allows this treatment to flourish with no recourse. The little research that I’ve done doesn’t support either the prevalence or the conspiracy. I don’t dismiss conspiracies — my Church participated in the cover-up of pedophilia amongst our clergy for over a century — but I question the questioning of evidence based solely upon the affirmation that the lack of evidence is indicative of evidence.

As individuals, as well as in societal cliques, we assume that reasonable people will draw conclusions similar to our own. We’re astounded when that isn’t the case. So we associate with those who share our opinions, conclusions, education, lifestyles, etc., No need to consult with sociologists: I think that we can agree on that.

Abusive treatment of one human being by another is reprehensible to the largest swathes of humanity, I hope. Psychological abuse is even more abhorrent as mental scars may never heal. At the pinnacle of inhumanity there seems to be a continuum of abuse heaped upon abuse heaped upon abuse. These experiences can produce or exacerbate mental disorders.

If I understand (no guarantee, and I’m open to correction) unethical psychotherapy it means the deliberate disregard of expected ethical treatment entrusted to therapists, no matter education or certification.

I do not, I cannot, say that unethical therapists do not exist. It’s clear from the stories here that it does exist. My position is that there are more ethical therapists than not and that they do more help than harm in the practice of psychotherapy. I believe that research has proved this position and I don’t believe that there exists any conspiracy amongst health professionals to protect the unethical therapist. I think that the unethical therapist is an aberration rather than the norm.

Written in haste. Please excuse the errors.
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  #155  
Old May 01, 2018, 10:37 AM
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amicus_curiae amicus_curiae is offline
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Originally Posted by here today View Post
So, for me, I had (stuck, dissociated, unconscious) fear (of rejection and abandonment) in a social experience where, once again, I didn't count.
Hmm. One of the characteristics of my borderline personality disorder that is a real gut-punch for me is abandonment. From losing my mother at the age of four to feeling like garbage (egg shells, orange rinds, coffee grounds) that my wife left on the curb for pick-up.

A lot of other issues with being silenced, not counting, etc., leading up to and beyond my 14-16 months (I cannot recall just now) of mutism and recovery from same. I wasn’t anyone. I was tired of trying to be someone.

I had periods of knowing that I could devour the monsters in my head and periods of acknowledging that they were windmills. I never thought of my interactions with my shrinks as social interactions, though. I had friends that were shrinks and psychologists but the thought of discussing my problems in any depth with them would have been a violation of our friendship agreement.

Lately, I talk for (maybe?) 70-minutes-per-week, 50 minutes to my shrink. My hypergraphic approach to writing means that I can no longer be paid to write. What can be said with one-hundred words I express in five-thousand.

This is the only place that I exist. The only reason that I exist here is because of the occasional ‘attaboy’s’ from other users.

I am beginning to understand — no, to empathise — with more of the users on this thread. I may not agree with some of the conclusions but dismissing other’s stories would be inhumane.

And I confess that I’m beginning to like many other users, finding that we share more in common than not.

I understand what it feels like to not count. I’m going through it again, but in a different manner.

I’m invisible.
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  #156  
Old May 01, 2018, 02:27 PM
dlantern dlantern is offline
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Yea they are apart of my regime and repertoire they define you and make you who you are. They make themselves get in that very same pit then allow us this outlet just like in therapy. They are the ones though ultimately that gives cops and those in authority a bad name just like bad doctors if you can't go to them we are all doom throw in clergy. Oh, boy are we survivors I got a hell of story just had to stuff it like everyone else!
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  #157  
Old May 01, 2018, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by missbella View Post
I find most professional ethics topics only center around major obvious transgressions like sexual exploitation or dual roles. Much discussion is about defending against legal actions as opposed to concern about harm to those in the clinicians’ care. And I see almost nothing from a client viewpoint or even a real-world common sense viewpoint.

It’s been a while since I read this book. But I recall it was recommended for exploring the dynamic leading to sexual exploitation, actually more harmful than overt transgression in the author’s view.
https://www.amazon.com/Sexual-Abuse-.../dp/0802081061
See... this is an example of what I find problematic when discussing the prevalence of unethical therapists. I think that I can say that I’m intimately familiar with both APA’s ethics standards and the legal questions surrounding medical malfeasance. I don’t find that “most professional ethics topics” are centered around sexual exploitation, defending against legal actions, etc.

What I do find is a preponderance of attention focused specifically on client/patient/clinician relationships. That’s as I expect.

I don’t understand the need to suggest that “most” therapists do harm when I’m weeping as I read the stories of those who suffered from the handful of therapists who caused harm.

The link that you provide is a kind of proof that misconduct is not widespread — a $30 paperback released twenty-years-ago with six reviews, only three verified purchases. Six glowing, five-star reviews, yes.

Again, I don’t doubt that people have suffered at the hand of unethical — sadistical, even — therapists. I doubt that this type of behaviour is widespread, I have concerns that suggesting that this behaviour is typical might lead someone from considering psychotherapy to abandon all hope. This doesn’t have to be Hell.
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  #158  
Old May 01, 2018, 03:40 PM
missbella missbella is offline
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In my bit of reading about traumatic bonding, I found the therapy parallel closer to cult induction as opposed to abusive marriage, where children and financial security also are a factor. In all cases though, emotion easily eclipses reason. I only stayed weeks after therapy became very bad, not because I was particularly smart, but because I was lucky my former college roommate was then a counselor and gave me insightful advice.

There were co-therapists involved, but for simplicity's sake, I'll discuss my response to the male psychologist.

But the basis of my bondage likely was:
. My obedience to someone I saw as an authority figure.
. My illogical hope that this therapist still could fix my life despite all evidence he only made it worse.
. My refusal to accept that the expert I trusted could be incompetent, corrupt or irrational.
. My pain and desperation that my life needed to be fixed.
. Nine-ten other people in the therapy group who seemed to believe in the process and the therapist.
. My obedience to rules that I only could terminate with one month's notice.
. The therapist's insistence that my wanting to leave signaled an important breakthrough.
. The cultural zeitgeist that therapy was the primary answer to
problems.
. The moral authority of therapy--that I needed to undergo it in a sacred duty to perfect and purify myself.
. The despondence of "quitting."
. Feeling truant.
. Feeling infantilized.
. Feeling incompetent without the therapist's expertise. (Though he never really told me anything useful.)
. Another therapist I trusted unconditionally referred me to this group therapy. Admitting injury or failure meant I had to question the first therapist's judgment.

If you told me this narrative about someone else, I'd shake me head at her failure to see and accept the obvious. It's so different when I'm the cult inductee.
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  #159  
Old May 01, 2018, 04:16 PM
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It appears, then, that there are two phenomena -- institutional betrayal and trauma bonding in cults -- that psychologists have identified in other contexts but not applied to their own profession and practitioners. Sad. For them, but most of all for the clients.
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  #160  
Old May 01, 2018, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ View Post
Abusive relationships and trauma are very complex. Look up trauma bonding or even the repetition compulsion. It happened to me. I could ask why I ever went back to therapy again after the initial trauma and I can say I forced myself to go because I wanted to heal my trauma and I wanted to challenge the belief that every therapist was unethical. Unfortunately for me, my individual therapists were extremely unethical which led me to researching what is called Institutional Betrayal; a common issue in healthcare.

Not everyone responds to abuse in the same way. Learned helplessness and the fawn response to trauma and danger or threat is quite common in trauma survivors. They also happen to be extremely vulnerable and at times, easily manipulated. Therapists learn what their vulnerabilities and triggers are and some will intentionally manipulate them to keep them around. This is especially the case if a client has attachment issues. Therapeutic relationships can grow into extremely unhealthy tangles of drama similar to romantic relationships; leaving the relationship hurts and so does staying. You ask why would anyone stay with an unethical therapist; perhaps that is something you will never understand until you are caught under the spell of an unethical therapist... Why so some battered housewives protect their abusers and stay with them? Why do healthcare professionals continue to work in and stay quiet about all the unethical and illegal abuses in the healthcare system?

My guess is fear plays a role, albeit, not the only role.

Thanks,
HD7970GHZ
I’m no stranger to trauma or abuse. As one who accepts that I’m to blame for every evil deed ever committed, I probably caused more trauma and abuse than I suffered. I’m not an expert, though, and I’ve no intention of investing time at Google University in the Wikipedia library. Trauma bonding sounds horrible, and repetition compulsion makes me think of Leopold and Loeb and Freud, a trio frolicking in psychoanalytical dramas. I don’t have the force-of-will to leave my bed, e.g., I’m trying to work through the host of my own afflictions at the moment. I’m guessing that I’ve spent more time institutionalized in mental hospitals and wards than the majority of users here, and I’m the only altar boy never assaulted by my beloved priests, so I can hazard a guess as to the meaning of Institutional Betrayal and can offer my Church as an example but cannot imagine that the practice is common in healthcare.

I’m familiar with the research behind and clinical and sociological adaptations of learned helplessness; I know of no evidence to suggest that this is a common clinical reaction. I am most familiar with the term being used as a socio-economic reality to explain the nature of poverty.

Let me cut to the chase:

Until there’s evidence proving widespread practice and cover-up of sadistic behavior in the healthcare industry or in the mental healthcare in particular I’m on the side of the experts and their research. I have issues with unverified — maybe unverifiable — assumptions of statistical data analysis.

In my life I have been on an endless crusade of self-destruction: witness the loss of my middle finger yesterday, fall in adoration to my stumps. Explore my neurological defects and slice into my psyche to reveal the damage rendered by the sick, sick, sick disorders with the symptomatic “ME” in the center.

I’ve never — not even when I was starving as I lacked the mental stability to feed myself — totally abandoned a degree of agency. I’ve acceded to institutionalizations with a nod. Having escaped the passing of an unethical therapist during my long/far-too-short life, it isn’t likely that I’ll fall prey in my remaining years.

I’m writing much too fast but not in anger, only in exasperation, as claims of sadistic treatment by psychotherapists is presented as a common practice, only going unnoticed because of systemic cover-ups by healthcare professionals.

Having once lived in the southern States, I collect “Southernisms.” One of my favorites…

“That dog won’t hunt.”

If we’re to ride to hounds let’s make certain that our dogs are familiar with the scent of the fox.
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  #161  
Old May 01, 2018, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by magicalprince View Post

It seems like this is the common factor people are finding in this problem... that question, "what about the client?" Is frequently the last consideration. Which is so wrong when this field is only supposed to exist in the interest of the client.
I don't think the field exists for clients. I think it exists for therapists. Therapy relationships are constructed to make therapists feel better. Whether a client benefits or not is incidental. This is reflected in the rules, the ethics guidelines, the response to conflict, the response to reports of harm, the codified power dynamics, the diagnosing and labeling, the attitudes around termination.

For therapists there is a combo platter of benefits -- emotional power, income, controlled relationships on their terms, adulation from worshipful people in distress. Seems many clients have to scrape and claw to find something they can recognize as tangible benefit, and in some cases the client ends up in a dark hole and can only hope to escape in one piece, and lurch toward a new therapist.
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  #162  
Old May 01, 2018, 06:06 PM
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If you told me this narrative about someone else, I'd shake me head at her failure to see and accept the obvious. It's so different when I'm the cult inductee.
I can’t say that I understand your conclusions but I have to ask if the ten other folks attending your group therapy were also inducted into the cult or if you felt singled out (for whatever reason)?

My early experience with the word ‘cult’ was benign but I’ve an interest in the psychology of the dangerous cult leader. It’s a given that the leader exhibits the most extreme behaviors associated with NPD but it’s the methods of recruitment that interest me more than anything. A cult leader seeks the adoration of a quantity of followers. If he hones in on an individual it’s usually because that person is uniquely positioned to add to the leader’s bounty in some manner. The bounty can include money and innumerable other material goods but the biggest catch is a recruiter with an affable notoriety who legitimizes the leader and who is able to bring in a quantity (an increase in adoration) and quality (younger, more attractive sex partners) of followers.

If your therapist exhibited symptoms of NPD I can understand why you would identity as a ‘cult inductee.’ I think, though, that it may be important to examine if you were to be attached to a group of cult followers — the ten others in your therapy group — or if you were treated differently than others in the group. The latter doesn’t mean that you were expected to be a recruiter, of course, but it’s possible.

I’m genuinely interested your experience of unethical behavior in the midst of a group. Most of the stories that I’ve read here involve a real or perceived intimacy between client/patient and therapist. Did you desire to be part of the group? This is fascinating.
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  #163  
Old May 01, 2018, 07:36 PM
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I truly believe the therapeutic environment needs serious long-term research. I believe it offers the perfect recipe for abuse, while affording the therapists all the power to get away with it. Unreal that this industry (as a whole) still has not acknowledged their pandemic issues.

My goal at this point is to go to school and get a job as an undercover therapist and work in as many organizations as I can and gain evidence of unethical malpractice so I am expose it. This stuff is out of control!

Thanks,
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  #164  
Old May 01, 2018, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missbella View Post
In my bit of reading about traumatic bonding, I found the therapy parallel closer to cult induction as opposed to abusive marriage, where children and financial security also are a factor. In all cases though, emotion easily eclipses reason. I only stayed weeks after therapy became very bad, not because I was particularly smart, but because I was lucky my former college roommate was then a counselor and gave me insightful advice.
Interestingly, I've watched a few documentaries about cults before, and I noticed there were a lot of cases where the cult leader started as some form of therapist. Usually it's alternative therapies like hypnotherapy for example, but there is a genuine theme of cult leaders actually using this therapy structure, the one-on-one dynamic of "teacher/authority figure" and "patient/help seeker" as their main vehicle of control. This one specifically comes to mind right now.

Not saying all therapists are like cult leaders, or that therapy is always cult-like, but it does illustrate the power of this medium. Therapy is, at the very least, playing with fire. You really have to trust the person sitting across from you. Which is harder to do when they deliberately conceal their own personal factors.
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  #165  
Old May 02, 2018, 12:05 AM
missbella missbella is offline
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Based on my experience, I don’t think it wise to forfeit one’s judgment completely in any circumstance. There’s the Cold War slogan trust but verify.
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  #166  
Old May 02, 2018, 02:55 AM
The_little_didgee The_little_didgee is offline
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Originally Posted by magicalprince View Post
Thanks for sharing your experiences. Yeah, I think it's difficult, because therapy is creating this power structure and so if a client is not given the respect that they are supposed to be given by default, then the only choice, while in that therapy, is to adapt to whatever behavior is rewarded or punished in that environment. Much like children learn to adapt to the rules of their home environments and learn what their parents will approve and disapprove of. It's just a fact of human psychology that people adapt to their environment. It can be really hard to resist these factors when you are put in a position of powerlessness.

I originally read your post on the day you submitted it, and have been thinking about it since. I never thought of what happened in that way. For years and years I believed it was all my fault, because I was told repeatedly that I couldn't be helped. Now, I am realizing that this is very inaccurate and a reflection of cognitive bias, rather than an inherent flaw in my personality.

This was the one and only time I have ever let myself become that vulnerable, yet I withheld so much about myself, because I was terrified they would call me a monster. This horrific experience taught me the importance of boundaries, to stand up for myself, and question things.

I'm in therapy today, and it is very different. It focuses on practical life skills rather than exploring myself and my childhood. I have found this approach very helpful, especially since I am not very people oriented. It has allowed me to connect to others a lot better, which is what I always wanted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by magicalprince View Post
Therapy is presenting this system to people, disadvantaged people who really need help, in this kind of "take it or leave it" way, you play by their rules or you're out, and it's cutthroat, and it does change people, it does cause people to behave in ways they never thought they would behave, which can devolve into the dynamics you see in cult-like organizations or pyramid schemes, etc. It wasn't supposed to be this way, therapists are not supposed to be mercenaries. Not all therapists are, the problem is that the ones who are, are completely unchecked.

I know that was the case for me, I found myself obsessing over small things, little details I never cared about before. I found myself becoming so conscious of how I was presenting myself and how I was being received. So conscious of the subtle interplay of emotions. And it definitely changed me. It made me weird. I don't like the way I was back then. I was very lost, even though I had perfectly good intentions.
I always felt that I had report 'symptoms' even when there were none at my therapy sessions.

I certainly didn't like who I became, and had to leave to reclaim myself. Leaving taught me more about myself than any therapist has. It confirmed that everything I was told was inaccurate.

Thank you for helping me understand.


I often wonder if this industry causes PD-like reactions in people who have low self-esteem and self-worth.
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  #167  
Old May 02, 2018, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_little_didgee View Post

I originally read your post on the day you submitted it, and have been thinking about it since. I never thought of what happened in that way. For years and years I believed it was all my fault, because I was told repeatedly that I couldn't be helped. Now, I am realizing that this is very inaccurate and a reflection of cognitive bias, rather than an inherent flaw in my personality.

This was the one and only time I have ever let myself become that vulnerable, yet I withheld so much about myself, because I was terrified they would call me a monster. This horrific experience taught me the importance of boundaries, to stand up for myself, and question things.

I'm in therapy today, and it is very different. It focuses on practical life skills rather than exploring myself and my childhood. I have found this approach very helpful, especially since I am not very people oriented. It has allowed me to connect to others a lot better, which is what I always wanted.



I always felt that I had report 'symptoms' even when there were none at my therapy sessions.

I certainly didn't like who I became, and had to leave to reclaim myself. Leaving taught me more about myself than any therapist has. It confirmed that everything I was told was inaccurate.

Thank you for helping me understand.


I often wonder if this industry causes PD-like reactions in people who have low self-esteem and self-worth.
I'm glad to hear that my post was helpful! And I find that really relatable. I too was one of those people who believed it's all my fault/all my responsibility. Sometimes what we are experiencing inside says equally as much about our environment as it does about us.

I feel like unhealthy therapy and bad/inconsistent/no boundaries just go hand in hand. It's not just on the part of the client, it's often on the part of the therapist too. There are many signs of bad boundaries that are much more subtle and common than these extreme cases of therapist abuse. But still harmful. For me, those were things like, my therapist would get anxious when I said my emotions. Or if I steered away from our usual type of pattern. Maybe she would try to steer the topic away from the thing I wanted to talk about, and I'd find myself holding back the urge to say, "actually can we really talk about this instead?" Or she would make suggestions or encourage me in a direction that didn't seem entirely honest to me, it seemed like there was an ulterior motive and I wanted to say it seemed that way but I would hold my tongue. Anyway, the gist is, I always felt like I had to keep in line with her pace, her focus, her interpretations, or she would start pushing me away. And I could just feel it. Almost like being quietly reprimanded for not being, thinking, behaving a certain way. The atmosphere would change to something unpleasant, something that hinted of painful old emotions from my past, and I couldn't take it, so for a long time I compulsively tried my best not to end up feeling that way. And I had a real underlying fear that I was not "helpable" or "fixable" because somehow my problems might be all my fault, some kind of evidence that I was just fundamentally defective. The notion of being kicked out of my own therapy felt like a really painful endorsement of this underlying fear. That fear is real, and it definitely pressures a lot of people, like it pressured me, into compliance with the whole therapy and mental health system, the DSM, the diagnoses, all of it, even if in the back of their minds, they are questioning all of it and are skeptical of the whole thing.

I think in retrospect, when I look back on a situation like that, I see how uncomfortable I really was, how much frantic emotional work I was putting in just to feel like things were "okay," how much my baseline state was feeling "not okay" and how I simply didn't question that this other person, this therapist, is somehow the one who gets to define for me what I have to do, or say, or think or feel, in order to reach "okay" again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by missbella View Post
Based on my experience, I don’t think it wise to forfeit one’s judgment completely in any circumstance. There’s the Cold War slogan trust but verify.
Great saying. I completely agree!
Thanks for this!
here today, koru_kiwi, Mopey, The_little_didgee
  #168  
Old May 02, 2018, 08:00 AM
here today here today is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicalprince View Post
. . . I had a real underlying fear that I was not "helpable" or "fixable" because somehow my problems might be all my fault, some kind of evidence that I was just fundamentally defective. The notion of being kicked out of my own therapy felt like a really painful endorsement of this underlying fear. That fear is real, and it definitely pressures a lot of people, like it pressured me, into compliance with the whole therapy and mental health system, the DSM, the diagnoses, all of it, even if in the back of their minds, they are questioning all of it and are skeptical of the whole thing.
. . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by missbella
Based on my experience, I don’t think it wise to forfeit one’s judgment completely in any circumstance. There’s the Cold War slogan trust but verify.
Great saying. I completely agree!
Well said, magicalprince.

Maybe you've written about it before, but I haven't seen it -- would you mind saying how and when your therapy ended? Did you just start listening more the the questions in the back of your mind, or did something outside yourself help jump start that process? Did you go to another therapist who helped you, or what have you found that works for you instead, if you have found something?
  #169  
Old May 02, 2018, 09:42 PM
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magicalprince magicalprince is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by here today View Post
Well said, magicalprince.

Maybe you've written about it before, but I haven't seen it -- would you mind saying how and when your therapy ended? Did you just start listening more the the questions in the back of your mind, or did something outside yourself help jump start that process? Did you go to another therapist who helped you, or what have you found that works for you instead, if you have found something?
I don't like to post too many specific details on here, I'd be willing to discuss my experiences further in a PM if you wanted. But, mostly what helped me was to gradually develop my own perspective and my own voice. I did a ton of reflecting and journaling and introspecting and I tried my best to express the things I was feeling, even if came with a lot of anxiety and even if it ended how it did. It was painful, the pain never goes away, but it does get further behind me on the horizon and at the very least I did learn a lot. I'm still learning a lot. I tried further therapy but for me it wasn't helpful, in fact I only got worse as long as I continued that. With the right therapist it potentially could have been helpful, I just couldn't find a good fit for me. Personally I believe there's elements of truth in everything, every experience, every story, and what I've been doing is just piecing those together to find what is true for me. That's what has helped the most.
Thanks for this!
here today
  #170  
Old May 03, 2018, 06:21 AM
here today here today is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicalprince View Post
. . .But, mostly what helped me was to gradually develop my own perspective and my own voice. I did a ton of reflecting and journaling and introspecting and I tried my best to express the things I was feeling, even if came with a lot of anxiety and even if it ended how it did. It was painful, the pain never goes away, but it does get further behind me on the horizon and at the very least I did learn a lot. I'm still learning a lot. I tried further therapy but for me it wasn't helpful, in fact I only got worse as long as I continued that. With the right therapist it potentially could have been helpful, I just couldn't find a good fit for me. Personally I believe there's elements of truth in everything, every experience, every story, and what I've been doing is just piecing those together to find what is true for me. That's what has helped the most.
Again, very well said. Thanks.
  #171  
Old May 06, 2018, 10:37 AM
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HD7970GHZ HD7970GHZ is offline
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I am amazed how much insight and wisdom there is around this topic. Too much for me to comment on all of it.

I am so sickened how common this is. Therapy is extremely delicate and it can lead to all kinds of bad. I wish the power imbalance did not exist and I wish more research went into the damage caused by unethical therapy. Perhaps that would prevent some harm.

Do you suppose therapists adopt the illusion that best suits their needs for no accountability or shame? I try so hard to understand how people (who seem to genuinely care) can become so hostile and malicious at the drop of a hat. Seeing that transformation was extremely scary. Are they able to empathize with those they hurt or are they so far gone they can't even see what they're doing.

Thanks,
Hd7970ghz
__________________
"stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget"
"roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles"
"the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy"
"don't put all your eggs - in one basket"
"promote pleasure - prevent pain"
"with change - comes loss"
Hugs from:
SalingerEsme
Thanks for this!
koru_kiwi, missbella, Mopey, SalingerEsme
  #172  
Old May 06, 2018, 11:11 AM
missbella missbella is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ View Post
I try so hard to understand how people (who seem to genuinely care) can become so hostile and malicious at the drop of a hat. Seeing that transformation was extremely scary. Are they able to empathize with those they hurt or are they so far gone they can't even see what they're doing.

Thanks,
Hd7970ghz
My co-therapists went from useless, occasionally snide to unabashedly vicious. I assume they justified this to themselves as somehow benefiting me.
Hugs from:
HD7970GHZ
Thanks for this!
HD7970GHZ
  #173  
Old May 06, 2018, 11:32 AM
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HD7970GHZ HD7970GHZ is offline
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I find this blog to be interesting for several different reasons... Reasons which I will not comment about just yet...

https://blogs.psychcentral.com/psych...pers-who-hurt/

Read this. I want to know what people think.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz
__________________
"stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget"
"roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles"
"the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy"
"don't put all your eggs - in one basket"
"promote pleasure - prevent pain"
"with change - comes loss"
  #174  
Old May 06, 2018, 01:46 PM
Anonymous50987
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Posts: n/a
Effects of Therapist Abuse | When Therapy Harms | Terry Ganaway

This is the story of a woman who has gone through therapy abuse, and her details on this unfortunate and devastating experience
Thanks for this!
HD7970GHZ, missbella, weaverbeaver
  #175  
Old May 06, 2018, 03:03 PM
BudFox BudFox is offline
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Member Since: Feb 2015
Location: US
Posts: 3,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ View Post
I find this blog to be interesting for several different reasons... Reasons which I will not comment about just yet...

https://blogs.psychcentral.com/psych...pers-who-hurt/

Read this. I want to know what people think.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz
Same tired argument... if people expose the dark side of therapy, it might discourage people from "getting the help they need". Yawn. It's also a paternalistic attitude... don't scare the impressionable child-like clients.

The occasional negative fictional portrayal is completely overshadowed by the reams of propaganda the biz churns out about therapy's unassailable righteousness and purity. Seems rather paranoid, worrying about every little criticism.

Plus who really knows how common overtly destructive therapy is.
Thanks for this!
HD7970GHZ, missbella, SalingerEsme
Reply
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