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  #351  
Old Feb 28, 2019, 06:46 PM
Topiarysurvivor Topiarysurvivor is offline
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Originally Posted by blackocean View Post
Did any of your abusive Ts trigger you on purpose or try to make you feel worse so you would be dependent or too distressed

Like did you leave feeling worse and then remember things T said or did that seem suspiciously triggering or meant to keep you unwell
Not in therapy sessions, but definitely when I lived with her.
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  #352  
Old Feb 28, 2019, 07:04 PM
blackocean blackocean is offline
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Originally Posted by Topiarysurvivor View Post
Not in therapy sessions, but definitely when I lived with her.
why do you think so? like why cause you distress on purpose?

to keep you vulnerable? to strengthen trauma bond? sadism?

I feel crazy thinking this is happening but I am suspicious.
  #353  
Old Feb 28, 2019, 11:46 PM
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HD7970GHZ HD7970GHZ is offline
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Originally Posted by blackocean View Post
why do you think so? like why cause you distress on purpose?

to keep you vulnerable? to strengthen trauma bond? sadism?

I feel crazy thinking this is happening but I am suspicious.
Hi this is a good question.

Some therapists have their own methodology to treating trauma. Some believe that exposing clients to their trauma (in small and controlled amounts) will force them to relive the trauma in a safe environment and force them to process and learn to cope independently with the support of a therapist.

For some clients this works. It is called exposure therapy. The goal is to desensitize a client to their trauma so it no longer holds so much power over their lives.

However, there are therapists who operate under the guise of exposure therapy to intentionally harm; I have experienced this and so have many others. Some therapists enjoy it. Some therapists like feeling needed (which is when the therapist's needs become the core of a therapeutic relationship) bringing about a countertransference issue. Countertransference reactions is in part why therapists are so heavily engaged in consultations. Some therapists prey on clients for sexual or narcissistic reasons. Trauma bonding says a lot about an abuser; it says they know what it takes to keep you around despite the abuse they dish out. It says they are weak and that you have something they both need and desire. What that is depends on the individual therapist.

You can tell your therapist not to engage in exposure therapy. If they do not stop then find a new therapist or stay if you trust that they are not doijg it to be conceited. Unfortunately, a lot of trauma patients become retraumatized regardless of training and traums awareness; not everyone with trauma benefits from therapy. The environment is riddled with inherent power imbalances and boundaries that increasingly risk retraumatization the more dependent a client becomes on a therapist.

I know I cannot handle exposure therapy. A therapist would be foolish to expose a trauma survivor to exposure therapy who has been abused in therapy. I believe this partly why their industry fails so badly at treating clients with therapy trauma. Treating it the same as trauma that occurred outside of therapy is recipe for disaster. Until they acknowledge the overwhelming problem, research will cease to exist and treatment modalities will unfortunately remain unchanged and unaware of the hazardous impact it can have.

Simply said: those with trauma in therapy are not to be treated as typical ptsd sufferers. They need extra care and safety. They need to shown through example that not all therapists are bad - that people can be trusted and that the world is not as dark and scary as they have come to believe.

I don't have much faith that this exists outside of the golden gem therapist who takes years to find.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz
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  #354  
Old Mar 01, 2019, 03:25 AM
missbella missbella is offline
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My cruelest therapist explicates on his website the necessity of the right amount of pain as essential for growth. Apparently he feels if a client hurts insufficiently, he “curatively” intensifies it.

Therapists can follow any whim or notion and apply their grand experiments without the slightest informed consent.
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  #355  
Old Mar 01, 2019, 04:02 AM
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ScarletPimpernel ScarletPimpernel is offline
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Maybe it's a good thing then that I didn't look for a trauma T after ex-T? We haven't really done exposure therapy, but then again, I don't really know what that would look like. I do know that my T has worked hard to not re-traumatize me.
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  #356  
Old Mar 01, 2019, 01:05 PM
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HD7970GHZ HD7970GHZ is offline
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Read this people. This is exactly in line with what I am talking about.

Meet the NHS whistle-blowers who exposed the truth - Telegraph

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HD7970ghz
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"roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles"
"the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy"
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"promote pleasure - prevent pain"
"with change - comes loss"
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  #357  
Old Mar 01, 2019, 02:45 PM
Anonymous56387
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Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ View Post
Hi this is a good question.

Some therapists have their own methodology to treating trauma. Some believe that exposing clients to their trauma (in small and controlled amounts) will force them to relive the trauma in a safe environment and force them to process and learn to cope independently with the support of a therapist.

For some clients this works. It is called exposure therapy. The goal is to desensitize a client to their trauma so it no longer holds so much power over their lives.

HD7970ghz
Thank you very much for this post. I have heard of this in CBT (like for treating phobias), but did not realize that other modalities used it as well. Are the T's supposed to inform the clients that they are doing this? If not, why not?

Last edited by Anonymous56387; Mar 01, 2019 at 03:01 PM.
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  #358  
Old Mar 01, 2019, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by EG1991 View Post
Thank you very much for this post. I have heard of this in CBT (like for treating phobias), but did not realize that other modalities used it as well. Are the T's supposed to inform the clients that they are doing this? If not, why not?
Exposure therapy is an agreement of sorts. If a therapist continues after a client has said to stop - they must agree to stop. Informed consent is a standard that is applicable through healthcare in general. Therapy does hurt and sometimes you must get worse before you can get better, but to expose someone to trauma to the extent that they become suicidal, that should be the limit.

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"stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget"
"roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles"
"the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy"
"don't put all your eggs - in one basket"
"promote pleasure - prevent pain"
"with change - comes loss"
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  #359  
Old Mar 01, 2019, 04:10 PM
Anonymous56387
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Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ View Post
Exposure therapy is an agreement of sorts. If a therapist continues after a client has said to stop - they must agree to stop. Informed consent is a standard that is applicable through healthcare in general. Therapy does hurt and sometimes you must get worse before you can get better, but to expose someone to trauma to the extent that they become suicidal, that should be the limit.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

Thank you for your reply.

It seems to me that the T should clearly explain their treatment plan to the client. If a client does not understand why the T is exposing them to trauma, the client may not only be hurt by the re-exposure, but also by the feeling that the T is the one causing the harm. In CBT exposure therapy for phobias, the T clearly explains what they are planning on doing and what the likely effects will be. Do T's of other modalities not follow this protocol?
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  #360  
Old Mar 01, 2019, 04:47 PM
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HD7970GHZ HD7970GHZ is offline
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Originally Posted by EG1991 View Post
Thank you for your reply.

It seems to me that the T should clearly explain their treatment plan to the client. If a client does not understand why the T is exposing them to trauma, the client may not only be hurt by the re-exposure, but also by the feeling that the T is the one causing the harm. In CBT exposure therapy for phobias, the T clearly explains what they are planning on doing and what the likely effects will be. Do T's of other modalities not follow this protocol?
Good question. I am no professional, but even if I was I couldn't speak on behalf of everyone in the system.

I would think there is a certain degree of info that ought to be shared about the modalities. Then again, there are many people who are retraumatized by therapists even if they set out the guidelines for treatment and remain transparent throughout. Personally I think success of treatment relies on many variables, some of which are beyond the control of patient and therapist.

Thanks,
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"stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget"
"roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles"
"the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy"
"don't put all your eggs - in one basket"
"promote pleasure - prevent pain"
"with change - comes loss"
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  #361  
Old Mar 01, 2019, 05:01 PM
blackocean blackocean is offline
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I think my therapist triggers me on purpose
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  #362  
Old Mar 01, 2019, 06:03 PM
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HD7970GHZ HD7970GHZ is offline
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Originally Posted by blackocean View Post
I think my therapist triggers me on purpose
I believe you.

Trust your gut. PTSD makes us into human lie detectors.

Bear in mind that while your gut tells you something is wrong, it isn't always 100% accurate. Most likely there is something wrong, but that is not to say it is exactly what we think it is.

I have been wrong before.

Then again, not when abuse is blatantly obvious.

Trust your gut.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz
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"stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget"
"roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles"
"the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy"
"don't put all your eggs - in one basket"
"promote pleasure - prevent pain"
"with change - comes loss"
Thanks for this!
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  #363  
Old Mar 01, 2019, 06:19 PM
blackocean blackocean is offline
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Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ View Post
I believe you.

Trust your gut. PTSD makes us into human lie detectors.

Bear in mind that while your gut tells you something is wrong, it isn't always 100% accurate. Most likely there is something wrong, but that is not to say it is exactly what we think it is.

I have been wrong before.

Then again, not when abuse is blatantly obvious.

Trust your gut.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

Thank you, I appreciate it
Thanks for this!
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  #364  
Old Mar 01, 2019, 10:00 PM
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What is it your therapist does?
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"stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget"
"roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles"
"the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy"
"don't put all your eggs - in one basket"
"promote pleasure - prevent pain"
"with change - comes loss"
  #365  
Old Mar 02, 2019, 12:40 PM
blackocean blackocean is offline
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Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ View Post
What is it your therapist does?
I sent you a PM with some details
  #366  
Old Mar 02, 2019, 01:27 PM
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HD7970GHZ HD7970GHZ is offline
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I sent you a PM with some details
I figured there was something you might share on here.

My apologies.

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"stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget"
"roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles"
"the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy"
"don't put all your eggs - in one basket"
"promote pleasure - prevent pain"
"with change - comes loss"
  #367  
Old Mar 02, 2019, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by missbella View Post
My cruelest therapist explicates on his website the necessity of the right amount of pain as essential for growth. Apparently he feels if a client hurts insufficiently, he “curatively” intensifies it.

Therapists can follow any whim or notion and apply their grand experiments without the slightest informed consent.
That's horrifying! I'm reminded somehow of how a torturer would describe the process of obtaining information.
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  #368  
Old Mar 02, 2019, 01:38 PM
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That's horrifying! I'm reminded somehow of how a torturer would describe the process of obtaining information.
Susannahsays,

What do you think you would say to a therapist who was doing this to you? How would you approach it if you knew that just by calling it out - your therapist could deny it and blame it on your perception; thereby gaslighting you and prolonging the abuse?

Curious what other members might do if they wanted to get through to their therapist and were scared it would be denied.

Thanks,
Hd7970ghz
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"stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget"
"roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles"
"the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy"
"don't put all your eggs - in one basket"
"promote pleasure - prevent pain"
"with change - comes loss"
Thanks for this!
here today, Out There
  #369  
Old Mar 02, 2019, 01:42 PM
blackocean blackocean is offline
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Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ View Post
I figured there was something you might share on here.

My apologies.

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Hd7970ghz


Ohhh haha. Got it. I’m a little scared to open it up to the group, especially after the other posts that went off the rails and agitated me pretty bad.
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  #370  
Old Mar 02, 2019, 01:52 PM
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susannahsays susannahsays is offline
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Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ View Post
Susannahsays,

What do you think you would say to a therapist who was doing this to you? How would you approach it if you knew that just by calling it out - your therapist could deny it and blame it on your perception; thereby gaslighting you and prolonging the abuse?

Curious what other members might do if they wanted to get through to their therapist and were scared it would be denied.

Thanks,
Hd7970ghz
I guess I don't see the point of trying to "get through" to someone like this. It would be like the client trying to provide treatment to the therapist for being a sociopath.
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  #371  
Old Mar 02, 2019, 01:52 PM
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HD7970GHZ HD7970GHZ is offline
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Ohhh haha. Got it. I’m a little scared to open it up to the group, especially after the other posts that went off the rails and agitated me pretty bad.
Understood.

You are not alone in feeling that way... Feel free to Private Message me anytime.

Hd7970ghz
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"stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget"
"roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles"
"the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy"
"don't put all your eggs - in one basket"
"promote pleasure - prevent pain"
"with change - comes loss"
  #372  
Old Mar 02, 2019, 02:06 PM
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I guess I don't see the point of trying to "get through" to someone like this. It would be like the client trying to provide treatment to the therapist for being a sociopath.
I agree. I think therapists shouldn't be allowed to behave this way. But they do. Often.

In DBT, there are many clients who "fail" treatment. The funny thing about this is the only one failing is the modality and the therapist. A patient who seeks help is making a courageous choice. They cannot fail therapy. If a therapist chooses to expose a client to their trauma intentionally (even if it is for the right reasons) and the client's health declines as a result; it is entirely the fault of the therapist and the treatment. Going too far is a result of incompetence or malice - which the therapist is entirely at fault for. They know what trauma is. They are trained in it. For them to expect a client NOT to worsen or react negatively to exposure therapy is embarrassing to their profession. They know very well that retraumatization is possible.

Unfortunately clients who "fail" DBT are often labelled something they are not. Also common is to label such clients as, "treatment resistant," which is absolute hogwash. If a client reacts strongly to exposure therapy it is a result of trauma and unsafe therapeutic dynamics.

I suppose this is why so many clients become stuck after being harmed by the profession.

Thanks,
Hd7970ghz
__________________
"stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget"
"roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles"
"the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy"
"don't put all your eggs - in one basket"
"promote pleasure - prevent pain"
"with change - comes loss"
Thanks for this!
here today, Mopey, Out There
  #373  
Old Mar 02, 2019, 02:19 PM
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In my situation , as I could already see what the issues were and the behaviour had already been proved to me , it did then become pointless to complain or try to get resolution on it. I wasn't going to get anywhere and wouldn't set myself up for more gaslighting , frustration and anger. If a client is seeing this in therapy , leaving is often the best option. If it feels wrong , often times it is , we're getting that warning from somewhere. But we do like to imagine we can trust these people. Sadly , some of them let us down badly , and often they don't respect other professionals and their work either.
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  #374  
Old Mar 02, 2019, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Out There View Post
In my situation , as I could already see what the issues were and the behaviour had already been proved to me , it did then become pointless to complain or try to get resolution on it. I wasn't going to get anywhere and wouldn't set myself up for more gaslighting , frustration and anger. If a client is seeing this in therapy , leaving is often the best option. If it feels wrong , often times it is , we're getting that warning from somewhere. But we do like to imagine we can trust these people. Sadly , some of them let us down badly , and often they don't respect other professionals and their work either.
Well said!

The bold: This resonates so much. Perhaps it plays into trauma survivor's desperate need to find someone that is not going to hurt them. (Complex PTSD even states: "repeated attempts to find a rescuer"). I agree that we should leave. I don't think it is our job to sift through red flags, yellow flags and green flags if our body tells us we are unsafe over and over. But learning to discern real danger is certainly possible. If a therapist continues to trigger us despite their training, odds are we can trust our gut and we should leave. Too much at risk to stay.

I know for myself, I walk into therapy time and time again despite the negative experiences. Part of it is wanting to heal, the other part is a repitition compulsion, another is loneliness and a deep desire to connect, another could be trauma bonding, another part is looking for evidence that not all therapists will abuse. I want to be proven wrong. Unfortunately I have been proven right too many times now.

Do we all relate to this stuff?

Thanks,
HD7970ghz
__________________
"stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget"
"roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles"
"the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy"
"don't put all your eggs - in one basket"
"promote pleasure - prevent pain"
"with change - comes loss"
Hugs from:
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Thanks for this!
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  #375  
Old Mar 02, 2019, 02:44 PM
missbella missbella is offline
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Actually one of my subsequent therapists was as “safe”, ie respectful and low vanity as possible. However to recover from a bully therapist, I had to put myself on the same plane as my therapists, to dismantle the mystique, to deconstruct the therapist -client dynamic and claim my own judgment. I couldn’t be outside of therapy while being inside it. As always, everyone has to find their own way through.
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