[White Dove]

I feel that I can help my T to be a better T. I think that other clients probably have the same reaction as me to the way she talks to me sometimes (She has a lot of great attributes as well as this). Is it super arrogant of me to think this? I'm asking for a reality check. On the one hand it feels arrogant, on the other, the conversation I'm planning to have with her feels like what therapy is all about.

No, you're in therapy so you can feel better. You're not there to teach the therapist how to be a better therapist
For that, a therapist has a school of thought and their own self-perspection
Keep the following rock solid in your head - you're paying for yourself, not for your therapist

[feileacan]

I think every relationship and interaction between two people affects and changes both people. Therapy is no exception. If therapists would not learn from their patients then experience wouldn't mean anything. If you read any book about psychotherapy then the acknowledgements section typically contains thanks to the patients which is very logical because without her patients no therapist would have become what they are. And in that sense, every new patient teaches something new. Assuming that the T wants to learn of course.

[Erebos]

Not sure if learning from someone and being taught are the same thing.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by White Dove

I feel that I can help my T to be a better T. I think that other clients probably have the same reaction as me to the way she talks to me sometimes (She has a lot of great attributes as well as this). Is it super arrogant of me to think this? I'm asking for a reality check. On the one hand it feels arrogant, on the other, the conversation I'm planning to have with her feels like what therapy is all about.

I think so, but I think it really depends on how responsive she is to feedback. It's definitely worth having the conversation with her. But I'd go into it not hoping you'll make her better for her other clients (if that's what you meant), but so she can be a better T to you. I've given my T some feedback, and he's generally (with a couple exceptions) been open to it and shifted how he is toward me as a result. I have no idea if that carries over to his other clients or just affects how he is with me. But I don't know that it really matters...

I agree, too, with your comment that it "feels like what therapy is all about." I've found that doing things in therapy--like giving feedback to my T--helps prepare me to do things like that in "real-life" relationships. It's a (generally) safe place to practice things like advocating for yourself. Just be prepared that she may not change as a result of what you tell her--and understand that if she doesn't, it's not about you, it's about her.

[SalingerEsme]

My T generally lives by Stopdog's TV quotation " The client is always wrong". I dint think he takes me seriously enough to learn from me. . It would be a great feeling if he would listen in that way, but maybe 6your T is more receptive. I think she could get defensive(?).

[Ididitmyway]

You can explain what you need to your T and you can tell them what you didn't like about their style of working and why. If the T is receptive to your feedback than the problem might be solved to some extend.

But I don't see that as "helping" them become a better T. When you explain to them what you need and don't need, you give them an opportunity to learn something they didn't know before, but you can't actively "teach" a.k.a "help" them to become a better T. It's not your job as a client to spend energy on educating your T. I understand that clients want to do that so eventually they would benefit from a "better T". But this is a trap. To make someone behave you want them to behave with the hope that if your efforts are successful you would FINALLY benefit from the relationship is a trap where co-dependent people often fall. They try to "help" their partners be better in the hope that their own life would improve then. And they start doing the same with their therapists. It's not surprising then that they often get involved with people who exploit their "helping" nature. They tend to find significant others among those who would always give them hope that they (the partner) are "improving" when they are not and have never intended to. Those people might show "understanding" every once in a while that is just enough to keep the co-dependent person's hopes up, which keeps them stuck in the relationship. The same thing happens with therapists. Just like with partners, people with co-dependent tendencies tend to stick with therapists who manipulate them very successfully because this is the dynamic that is very familiar to them.

If you start "helping" your T to become a better T, you will fall into a classic co-dependent trap, which is hard to get out of.

Your therapy time and your energy is for doing work ON YOURSELF, for sorting out and working on your own personal issues. It is not the time and the energy to be wasted on teaching the T how to do their job. If they are not doing a good enough job with you by your estimation, address it in session, talk about it and see if the T understands you and if they are willing to change the way they work. If they either don't "get it" or don't want to change anything, waste no minute of your precious time and no bit of your life energy on someone who is not going to give you what you need. Move on to finding a better match for yourself or an entirely different healing approach. Don't ever work on any relationship harder than the other person does. Don't waste time, money and emotional energy on teaching anyone how to do their job. Every minute you invest into this unrewarding task you take away from your life and from other things you could be doing that would benefit you much more.

Originally Posted by SalingerEsme

My T generally lives by Stopdog's TV quotation " The client is always wrong". I dint think he takes me seriously enough to learn from me. . It would be a great feeling if he would listen in that way, but maybe 6your T is more receptive. I think she could get defensive(?).

I would fire him the moment I saw his eyes

[stopdog]

No I do not. I never had any particular urge to do that. I was paying them to sit there while I talked. They can get continuing education on their own time.

Originally Posted by stopdog

no i do not. I never had any particular urge to do that. I was paying them to sit there while i talked. They can get continuing education on their own time.

↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑

[Amyjay]

I think Ts learn something new from every client. It might be completely different to what we think they are learning from us though.

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by feileacan

I think every relationship and interaction between two people affects and changes both people. Therapy is no exception. If therapists would not learn from their patients then experience wouldn't mean anything. If you read any book about psychotherapy then the acknowledgements section typically contains thanks to the patients which is very logical because without her patients no therapist would have become what they are. And in that sense, every new patient teaches something new. Assuming that the T wants to learn of course.

She has said more than once that she learns a lot from me. I have never asked her precisely what, though.

Well, I do imagine that she has learned more patience then she ever thought she could have in dealing with me over the years...

[AllHeart]

Do you think you can help your T to be a better t?

The thought never even crossed my mind, tbh. I guess if I felt my t needed to be better at her job, I would just seek help from a t that was indeed better.

[White Dove]

I guess really I'm talking about telling her what I think I need from her. She has already asked me this question.

[Amyjay]

I tell my T what I need from her. It does help her be a more effective t for me. I don't know what it helps her be a better T in general, but it takes the guesswork out of relating to me for her!

In that sense, sure I help her be a better T - for me. I tell her "when x happens it would helpful for me if you could do y" and "When Z happens please don't respond with X because I react to that by P. It would be better to F."

Makes therapy life much easier.

[koru_kiwi]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

They tend to find significant others among those who would always give them hope that they (the partner) are "improving" when they are not and have never intended to. Those people might show "understanding" every once in a while that is just enough to keep the co-dependent person's hopes up, which keeps them stuck in the relationship. The same thing happens with therapists. Just like with partners, people with co-dependent tendencies tend to stick with therapists who manipulate them very successfully because this is the dynamic that is very familiar to them.

yes...thank you for explaining that so well. this is exactly how therapy was for me with my ex-T. i could not see it then when i was stuck in the crazy making turmoil muck of it all back then, but that dynamic is as clear as day to me now afterwards.

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

If they either don't "get it" or don't want to change anything, waste no minute of your precious time and no bit of your life energy on someone who is not going to give you what you need. Move on to finding a better match for yourself or an entirely different healing approach. Don't ever work on any relationship harder than the other person does. Don't waste time, money and emotional energy on teaching anyone how to do their job. Every minute you invest into this unrewarding task you take away from your life and from other things you could be doing that would benefit you much more.

this is exactly what i did, i moved on and found another healing approach, when it was apparent that my ex-T was not going to be able to meet my needs. what finally pushed me towards the realisation that it was time to start my 'ending stage' of therapy with my T is exactly what you state here...i definilty felt like i was working harder on the therapeutic relationship than he was. i realised that therapy was becoming a waste of my time and money for something that no longer felt helpful or rewarding for me.

i'm not sure if i would have excepted these wise words of yours in the earlier stages of therapy, when i was quite enmeshed with my ex-T, but i reckon they would have been helpful when i was starting to have my doubts. hearing them now is quite validating.

Originally Posted by AllHeart

Do you think you can help your T to be a better t?

The thought never even crossed my mind, tbh. I guess if I felt my t needed to be better at her job, I would just seek help from a t that was indeed better.

This. . . .

[missbella]

I don't think it our job to train anyone else in general, but particularly a therapists. They might accede to small accommodations if in line with their philosophy, but I'm pessimistic about much more. In my experience, therapists were invested in the power seat and resistant to anything I tried to impart out their roles.


I understand the urge from frustrated attempt to "train" adults growing up. But now I can walk away or distance.

[White Dove]

I have been reflecting more on the thought provoking replies people have given. One of my thoughts is that I should consider that the conversation I'm planning to have with my T is about my therapy only, and how she is with her other clients is irrelevant to me.

Quite a few of the replies expressed the view that she should know herself from her training how to give me what I need and I should walk away and find another T. An alternative view is that perhaps we have too high expectations of therapists, and expect them to be perfectly skilled at their job?

My T does have positive attributes, one of those is that she has expressed that is will be very responsive to what I say I need from her (I haven't really expressed much yet to her, so I don't know how this will turn out in practice).

Ididitmyway- thanks for your thought provoking post. I guess if she doesn't adapt as I hope she will, and I kept hoping that she would, then I should definitely walk away from her.

Erebos, I completely agree with your post. I'm not thinking that I will be teaching her, just having a conversation.

I've been thinking that we can place our T's on a pedestal. I am definitely not placing her on a pedestal right now. Could that be a healthy thing that I am considering that we both have a big part to play in figuring out how we will work together, rather than me considering her to be the expert in this, and me the powerless recipient?