[MRT6211]

Do you or have you ever “acted out” in order to get attention from T? Aka doing something self-destructive, self-harming, risky behaviors, etc etc. Or having an attitude with them in session, being difficult, saying things you know will get a rise out of them, etc..?

Sometimes I do this, sometimes consciously, but usually subconsciously. I just know I want/need attention, and for some reason that’s the way I often go about it, although I’m trying to change that. I did this a couple of weeks ago, and T told me that I basically threw an adult version of a temper tantrum and that wasn’t going to get me what I wanted from her, because she is not going to give those behaviors much attention. But, at the same time, I feel like I got a little of what I wanted, because she did kind of give me the attention I wanted here...basically the firmness. I do better with Ts are firm with me, and I’m new to this T, and looking back, I guess I wanted to kind of like push/test her to see if she could be firm with me like my last T was...she delivered...

Curious to see if others have similar experiences...

Yup definitely.

[ChickenNoodleSoup]

I used to act out a lot, I think. Most of it was unconscious too. Usually it was self harm, suicidal threats or drug use. I'm not a very confrontational type of person, so I usually did not act out during sessions. It was more doing it at home and then asking for extra sessions because I was not doing well. A few months ago my T decided to just give me two sessions every week. Now I don't really experience this anymore, so I do think that all of these behaviors were me needing more attention.
Before, my T would react and give me extra sessions and phone calls, but since it wasn't every week, I'd act out in order to get what I needed each time I needed it.

Yes, doesn't everyone have versions of this, with Ts and others? I sometimes did with the Ts pretty much what I tend to do with other people for attention. Come up with something that I think is kinda cool and sophisticated - like observations, ideas, elaborate complex analyses... typically via email (because writing is a better medium for this, given I have time to compose and edit). Also did this in person, although that way I never truly felt it was for attention since I already had that time fully focused on me. What I did with the emails tends to work really well with certain kinds of people (usually the kinds I want to draw attention from) and worked with the Ts as well, for a while. Until they figured it out (especially the second), but we discussed it explicitly as well, I wanted to. Another way is emphasizing how I resolved an issue or overcame something difficult, and reporting about it. I know these are a bit narcissistic, but so are all the methods of attention seeking, if we want. Another kind was usually when I was drinking: similar to the above analytical stuff but much darker, brooding and surreal.

Emotional outbursts, temper tantrums, directly emphasizing my pain and suffering are not my style (I think I would have done therapy better if they had been) but the above are. Usually my good friends also figure these out about me and then we mostly just joke about it. I try to pay attention not to do these things merely for the sake of attention now (as opposed to, say, in my 20s-early 30s) but sometimes it's irresistible. But when I really want something from someone now, I usually force myself to be more upfront and simple, it has better outcomes.

I think the ways we tend to reach out to others for attention can reveal quite a lot about our personalities and defenses. I think that part of the reason the Ts were puzzled about me and found it hard to help me was those indirect, often overly symbolic and intellectualized expression styles. Some people can break through this effectively or communicate with me in similar ways (usually those that are prone to the same) but my Ts did not do that.

[Taylor27]

I do this too and i don't mean to act out but it does happen. Since my t has spread out my session to only once a month i have had things come up personally and i have acted out by self harm. I hate it when i do that. Hugs.

[unaluna]

That kind of behavior would not have flown with my mother. So - no. I feel like ive never been cute enough or loved enough to get away with acting obnoxiously and still keeping the other person's attention. So i try to be sad and pathetic and crazy and tired and overworked and sorry enough. THAT "works". Good question.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by unaluna

That kind of behavior would not have flown with my mother. So - no. I feel like ive never been cute enough or loved enough to get away with acting obnoxiously and still keeping the other person's attention. So i try to be sad and pathetic and crazy and tired and overworked and sorry enough. THAT "works". Good question.

I am the reasonable stalwart one, so here I am with a T who is MIA and I have yet to determine whether she will ever return to my city, or get another T cause I can "soldier on."

Is not acting out, a way of acting out?

[Anne2.0]

It was years ago, when I was kind of in the throes of some trauma stuff where I was pretty hostile to my pre-teen/teenage self. One session I decided (and I remember making a decision pretty clearly but don't remember much of the session) to have a very hostile attitude towards him and my cynicism flared that he could help me. I was definitely acting out although I'm not sure it was for attention per se-- because I know I have his attention in session, it's the only thing besides the time I could count on.

So stormy-faced and crossing my arms, I just deflected whatever he said. I waited for him to turn angry but instead he was more gentle and kind. You could say it was reinforcing my attempts to be angry teenager.

Because I was aware of what I was doing, I was able to see after this session that it didn't get me anywhere. If I was testing whether I could be "bad" and still be "loved," then I guess it proved that. But it didn't feel like it moved me anywhere in terms of where I wanted to be, it didn't give me anything and in fact it detracted from just working through what I needed to work through. It was an obstacle, and a waste of time, but for whatever reason I did it in the moment. I don't think I had to or that I was hopelessly compelled to do it by some inner drive, except I do know that I want to have an impact on others, and one way to do that is to be a jack@ss and watch others react. I never did it again, although there have certainly been times when felt like it, was reactive in a way I'd have like to indulged myself. Maybe what the acting out helped me figure out is that I much prefer to be intentional or responsive rather than reactive.

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

Maybe what the acting out helped me figure out is that I much prefer to be intentional or responsive rather than reactive.

Yes! This is probably similar to what was discussed on a couple recent threads about expressing anger: the differences between anger-driven assertiveness vs. mostly passive-aggressive hostility.

All this is definitely related to how we could or could not draw attention as kids (from out parents and other relatives, peers etc). What I posted above was a strategy I developed very early on, like before age 10. Of course a more immature version initially but it was the same strategy I continued to hone as I was growing up and even in earlier adulthood (to a large extent, even now) - because it worked from start. At first, my father liked it and reinforced it massively, plus his adult friends who often frequented our home and who were much more my company than other kids back then. Then I just continued seeking out the same kinds of people over and over, with a few exceptions for close relationships. I rarely sought attention from my mother as far as I recall because she actually gave me much more than I would have wanted, she was quite intrusive, so I more avoided her. Can't remember how it was when I was a baby but based on all I know, the "too much for me" probably started back at that stage. I clearly remember trying to detach from her very strongly around age 4-5, that's when I ran to my dad and continued to be much closer to him throughout the rest of their lives. I always find interesting that I never longed for a better mom, or any mother figure for that matter - probably related to the attention-overload and intrusiveness I received very early on. I was also frequently rejected by peers (other kids) before age 10, in the areas of conventional kids stuff. So I stuck with what I knew worked quite predictably. It required knowing very well how to select the "objects" though. This type of selecting is what I have been trying to adjust a bit during the past decade or so, because it only takes me so far. It is definitely challenging! As for one, choosing my first T was a conscious effort trying to change the selection (someone obviously much more reactive, emotional, irrational, error-prone, less intellectual). But that mostly failed (or we just could not figure it out and then I left), reinforcing, once again, the strategy I already knew working. Then I chose a 2nd T who fit my original pattern pretty well, it was better, but not truly therapeutic. Of course all this is not that simple but this has been the pattern.

[SlumberKitty]

Yes, a couple of times. It didn't really work though so there was no reason to continue the behavior.

[LabRat27]

Yep. Kinda backfired when he terminated to send me off to do DBT.

(he's my current therapist; I ended up working with him again... the saga is in a thread here if anyone who wasn't around at that time cares to read it)

I struggle with it now. I've found that the most helpful thing is to tell him what I want to communicate using my words instead, and that kind of attenuates the urge. It's definitely easier said than done, but if I can bring myself to say something like

Possible trigger:

"I want to hurt myself to show you that I'll always disappoint you and to get you to abandon me again so I have an excuse to go back to old behaviors and stop trying to get better, and to show myself that everyone abandons me and that I should learn my lesson."
Or "I want to hurt myself because I worry that you won't take my distress as seriously if I don't hurt myself."
Or "I want to hurt myself to test whether you'll abandon me again."

or, like I told him on Friday, "I want to act out and try to piss you off and make you angry at me so you'll stop being kind to me. And maybe then you'll hate me too."

Then at least if I do it he'll know what I'm trying to do. But also after I say it it kind of ruins the point of acting out on it. And I've told him what I would be trying to communicate. And he knows what to respond to/what's going on instead of trying to guess.

Possible trigger:

Where it's really hard is with the "I want to hurt myself to see if it upsets you. I want to see whether I can get some reaction to indicate that it bothers you."
I've told him this in the abstract, and warned him that if I get a reaction then I'll know that I can get a reaction and it will reinforce the behavior. I'm a lot less likely to try if I know it won't work.
So thus far he hasn't given me that reaction. He stays completely calm and neutral about it. I don't know if I'd get a reaction if I hadn't warned him.
But I don't tell him when it actually comes up specifically. There's too much shame.

[toomanycats]

Yes, I have

[InnerPeace111]

No, I don’t act out. I don’t want any extra attention from my T. If she’s going to give extra attention, I’d rather it go to all of her other clients. I’m not kidding. I prefer to be left alone between sessions so I don’t do anything to encourage extra attention. It’s just my preference. I’ve always been a pretty introverted and independent person anyway.

[Fuzzybear]

Good question, no I wasn’t cute enough to get their attention. Well I guess I did for a while, a few times.

[RainbowSadness]

I've never actually done it but been tempted too. My T is quitting and switching me to a new T this month, though. She says she's the new one is really sweet and mellow. My problematic self is gonna have a ball with this I'm sure.