[Ididitmyway]

If you feel you had been deceived by the concept of the "therapeutic relationship" and if that deception felt like seduction and subsequent betrayal, I'd like to know what you think about the idea that a therapist's role fits that of a "psychological prostitute", the one who sells a time measured dosages of emotional intimacy for $$. Does this characterization make sense? Or does it sound too strong and somewhat unfair or totally unfair? I am not seeking to make or prove any point here. I am genuinely curious about different perspectives on this because this is a question I haven't completely answered for myself. On some level I feel it reflects some reality of therapy, but I still don't know if this depiction goes too far.

[feralkittymom]

--------

[maybeblue]

I think if you want to use a sex analogy, the therapeutic relationship is meant to be more like the Mangaia culture where older women teach young men how to do it...not as partners for themselves, or for their own benefit or profit, but to train the young men to be partners for others.

But whenever there is intimacy--physical or emotional, there is a potential for harm.

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

If you feel you had been deceived by the concept of the "therapeutic relationship" and if that deception felt like seduction and subsequent betrayal, I'd like to know what you think about the idea that a therapist's role fits that of a "psychological prostitute", the one who sells a time measured dosages of emotional intimacy for $$. Does this characterization make sense? Or does it sound too strong and somewhat unfair or totally unfair? I am not seeking to make or prove any point here. I am genuinely curious about different perspectives on this because this is a question I haven't completely answered for myself. On some level I feel it reflects some reality of therapy, but I still don't know if this depiction goes too far.

Wow.

I totally hear what you are saying and I want to say that my mind has played with that idea also.

For someone who has not felt the safety to voice feelings, and really feel them with someone that they feel safe with, has bordered on the paid intimacy part with me. It has been in the back of my mind and I’ve pushed it back.

When I read your post I really felt what you were saying. I think.

Also, as I read it, I had the image in my mind of a physical therapist. A person working with someone who has suffered great physical damage/injury/abuse. To me a physical therapist would be for the patient/client and their heart would want to help them recover and overcome the obstacle that they are facing.

To me, a physical therapist would be invested in the physical healing of their patient/client much like a therapist/counselor would be also.

I’m also thinking that there must be a type of bond between those two, depending on the work that is needed, much like a mental therapist.

That put it in a different perspective for me as I saw that.

Damage is damage, whether it’s physical or emotional; and as I see it, it’s a heart connection either way if the therapist you are working with really cares.

At some point the physical therapist helps the patient/client get to the point that they can be mobile and confident on their own. I see that as a goal for the relationship between a patient/client in the mental therapist relationship also.

It’s a paid/co-pay service, but it’s one with a connection of encouraging growth and confidence.

That’s what I got from your post.

Thank you for putting it here!!

[mostlylurking]

My response is a bitter one and I don't wish to upset anyone, so perhaps the whole rest of my post should be considered to be under a trigger warning. Please be careful of reading if you are happy with your relationship with your T. I certainly don't wish to disrupt that.

-----

I did not feel deceived by the therapeutic relationship, nor that there was anything seductive about it. But I did think from near the start, and still think now (after a disastrous termination) that it is like emotional prostitution. Long ago I said this to my ex T, and he said there were aspects about the relationship -- the financial side -- that also made him uncomfortable.

I think the reason for the obsession (and it is an obsession) with boundaries, on both sides of the relationship, is that this is a very difficult if not impossible thing to navigate without harm to either or both parties. Therapy is extremely useful; therapy is extremely unnatural. It is intimacy with a stranger. Hopefully the boundaries protect everyone, but often they do not. And many times the boundaries themselves cause the harm.

I do understand that while a person can be paid to be present or to listen, they cannot be paid to care. I know T's do care. They genuinely do -- but the money, the industry, the institution is what has power. They may be paid to terminate you, to limit contact with you, to enforce boundaries in some way that doesn't fit them or you. Neither of you have control -- the financial arrangement has control. The therapy firm at which your T works has control, their governing body has control, the colleague they consulted with has control. The structure of it does not belong to you or to the T, any more than a relationship does in prostitution. There are rules, and the rules protect the institution of therapy. Not you, and not your T.

I had seriously considered going back to school to become a therapist myself several months ago, something which at the time my ex T seemed enthusiastic about, but I am done with it now. It did help me tremendously. It also ended with the worst thing that has happened to me in 20 years. Normal human relationships may not have such potential for healing, but neither do they have such potential for harm. So for my part, I am done.

[Echos Myron redux]

To answer your question I think it's a crude and generalised analogy.
The therapist who harmed me did not set out to; of that I am sure. Harm occurred as a result of his inexperience, misplaced self-assurance, lack of appropriate training and blindness to his own limitations. He wasn't able to provide the therapy he claimed to provide.
I know from my subsequent therapeutic relationship that it is possible to provide emotional support and an appropriately-boundaried space where therapeutic work can happen. That is what I am paying for - the therapy.
The fact that I pay him for his time makes him no more of a prostitute than a dentist, lawyer or gardener, who are also paid for their time by the hour.

[Lrad123]

I think this is a wonderful article about paying for therapy. She even references the whole prostitution analogy: What You Pay For – What a Shrink Thinks

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

I think this is a wonderful article about paying for therapy. She even references the whole prostitution analogy: What You Pay For – What a Shrink Thinks

I've seen this article before. I really detest it as it doesn't reflect my therapy experience at all, but thanks for sharing.

[MoxieDoxie]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

If you feel you had been deceived by the concept of the "therapeutic relationship"

Not sure deceived is the right way of putting it. How would know what the therapeutic relationship is even going to be until a few months or so in? I knew going in I had an issue with becoming very attached to therapist. That is not my T's fault. He keeps all sorts of boundaries and has been nothing but professional but yet time and time again therapy shows me what I am lacking in my own life. A true emotional connection with someone. I understand that this type of connection goes deeper with a therapist then it could ever with someone outside the therapist room because of the "paid" job aspect.

It does feel like a "Physiological Prostitution" but my symptoms I went in with have improved so much but I am not sure they would not return if he terminated me right now. I know connection and relationship with him are the reasons for my improvement and right now I feel if he terminated me that is where the harm comes in.

Your post talks about deception. I do not think it is deception. Deceit would be if the therapist knew exactly what would happen prior to starting therapy.

[nicoleflynn]

My therapist "sexualized" our relationship We did not have sex, but it did come close.....I have a list of what he said and did, if anyone is interested, PM me. I have been on a journey to confronting him by talking to other therapists, etc.....I am so afraid to confront him but know I need to do it for myself; it is quite a struggle!

[Carmina]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

I think this is a wonderful article about paying for therapy. She even references the whole prostitution analogy: What You Pay For – What a Shrink Thinks

That's pretty good

[here today]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

If you feel you had been deceived by the concept of the "therapeutic relationship" and if that deception felt like seduction and subsequent betrayal, I'd like to know what you think about the idea that a therapist's role fits that of a "psychological prostitute", the one who sells a time measured dosages of emotional intimacy for $$. Does this characterization make sense? Or does it sound too strong and somewhat unfair or totally unfair? I am not seeking to make or prove any point here. I am genuinely curious about different perspectives on this because this is a question I haven't completely answered for myself. On some level I feel it reflects some reality of therapy, but I still don't know if this depiction goes too far.

Very good question. I need to think about it some, maybe more later.

Originally Posted by Lrad123

I think this is a wonderful article about paying for therapy. She even references the whole prostitution analogy: What You Pay For – What a Shrink Thinks

Here's a quote from the article that exemplifies what I feel was a seduction and betrayal for me.

In fact, I will care about you for free. If I’ve taken your case, I’ve already determined that you are someone that I can care about. Forming a healthy, authentic alliance is a prerequisite to effective treatment. I simply don’t take cases if I can’t find solid empathic ground to stand on. If, after the first or second session, I don’t think that I can sustain my commitment to behave in a caring way toward you through dark and prickly times, I will make a referral to better-matched services.

This is what you are really paying for:
To keep my needs out of your way.

Despite many attempts, I did not find a therapist who could stick with me, who could sustain their commitment through dark and prickly times. That was what I was expecting, had been led to expect, had been "seduced" by -- the notion of a "therapeutic alliance", if I did my part. Referring me on after 6 years still seems like a betrayal to me. Turned out, the therapist could not keep her needs out of my way. She acknowledged that she had been triggered and then did not "have the emotional resources" to continue.

[lucozader]

I often had that feeling with my previous T. My relationship with my partner was (still is) lacking in many ways and so I paid someone for emotional intimacy (I guess it was a way to do that without cheating - guilt free) and fell 'in love' with him in a way that could never be reciprocated. It did feel like a terrible, cruel lie sometimes. The intimacy only goes one way.

I don't really blame T1 for all of that (though I do blame him for being s**t in a lot of other ways), in fact I blame myself - the part of me that thought it was a good idea to try to use a therapist like an emotional prostitute.

I do think it's a problem with the profession (sometimes, in some cases) that I'm not quite sure how to address or come to terms with - from either end. I guess I feel similarly to you, IDIMW - I'm really not sure.

[lucozader]

I guess the emotional intimacy of therapy is what I love about it, both as a client and as a therapist... The fact that it is so different from most 'normal' non-therapy relationships is its greatest strength and sort of the whole point of it, but it can also be a strange and terrible and painful thing.

[JacksonLiam]

I feel like I have been mind-*ucked.

[missbella]

My therapists were not so much friends or lovers as wizards, divine omniscient beings who had mastered life, knew The Answers and rationed poor wretched me clues by eye dropper. So they weren’t prostitutes as much as actors playing a role they appeared to believe themselves*. I feel duped.
*A therapist I know nonprofessionally is similarly as vain and arrogant.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by here today

Very good question. I need to think about it some, maybe more later.


Here's a quote from the article that exemplifies what I feel was a seduction and betrayal for me.


Despite many attempts, I did not find a therapist who could stick with me, who could sustain their commitment through dark and prickly times. That was what I was expecting, had been led to expect, had been "seduced" by -- the notion of a "therapeutic alliance", if I did my part. Referring me on after 6 years still seems like a betrayal to me. Turned out, the therapist could not keep her needs out of my way. She acknowledged that she had been triggered and then did not "have the emotional resources" to continue.

That's my experience as well. I found the article to be an idealistic presentation of the therapist's role, the one that both a therapist and a client would like to believe, but not at all reflective of what really happens.

I too didn't find any therapist who would be able to keep their needs completely out of therapy room. I don't see how it is humanly possible to do that, and if it's not that the claim on the therapist's part that it is possible is what constitutes a deception to me.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by missbella

My therapists were not so much friends or lovers as wizards, divine omniscient beings who had mastered life, knew The Answers and rationed poor wretched me clues by eye dropper. So they weren’t prostitutes as much as actors playing a role they appeared to believe themselves*. I feel duped.
*A therapist I know nonprofessionally is similarly as vain and arrogant.

My first therapist was a "wizard" as well, the exact type you are describing, a cocky arrogant A-hole. who woudn't even allow the idea that he might not have all the answers. But he was also the one who introduced the concept of our "relationship" being "both professional and intimate", which sounded like a non sense to me immediately and still does. It felt seductive and as an intrusion into my personal space. So, as much as that crowd loves to talk about boundaries, my experience was that they crossed my boundaries much more than I crossed theirs.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by JacksonLiam

I feel like I have been mind-*ucked.

Thank you. You've said it best.

[missbella]

As I read discussions, I get the image of the Wizard of Oz characters on the yellow brick road--in search of a heart, a brain, courage and home. Different travelers seek different things from the Wizard and sometime idealize him accordingly. I was in search of more spontaneity (heart) and my sense of adult competence (mainly courage), but didn't understand until I was older. Therapists acted as if they understood me, and I ascribed that to them. But none of us knew what I sought. Now as I reflect, I'm unsure how even the wisest wizard could help me more complete myself.

[Myrto]

My therapy was very painful for a while (but of course not always) and then I was terminated, felt a sense of relief and the rest of my experience with therapy was mostly "meh". I do consider myself deceived by therapy though because as it was pointed out above, therapy IS always about the therapist, ultimately. Despite what therapists constantly claim. It's always about them, their needs, their wishes, their sense of purpose, their fulfillment. That's the biggest dishonesty for me. As for the comparison with prostitution, I'm not a huge fan of comparing therapy to what I consider sexual abuse (prostitution), especially because in the case of prostitution clients are the ones abusing prostitutes whereas in therapy it's the other way around.

I can't say I have been harmed by therapy or the "therapeutic relationship". I think this is in part because I got into therapy first at middle age (almost 40), after lots and lots of what I regard as first hand significant life and mental health experience - many different kinds, from high ambition to the lowest of hopes for my own life and sanity, and everything in between.

I personally have never experienced intimacy in therapy. I went into it with an open mind because I read in the literature that it is supposed to be very intimate, engaging, making us experience possibly brand new levels and layers of ourselves. Those things did not happen to me. I also had a great deal of resistance - in part, because of what I read on PC from people who had done therapy way, way longer than me. I think I did really understand how it works - the promise and anticipated potential - all the things abundantly discussed here on PC, expectations, desires going in but rarely out.

As far as intimacy, my own perception and version is that it only occurs for me when it is completely, or very reasonably, balanced and mutual. I can have elaborate and intense fantasies initially, which can drive me to seek out certain people, but quite soon they will dissipate and pretty much disappear if not mutual and balanced. Meaning. basically intimacy, for me, is a two-way construct and cannot work in any other way. Even if I had fantasies and desires, if not reciprocated - I will soon lose interest and it is automatic. I never actually had to learn or develop this consciously - just how I am and experience relationships. Even with you, Ididitmyway, via this message board - I can tell you without any doubt that I am drawn to your posts, opinions, and experiences - most often because a lot of them overlap or at least are compatible with mine. With my values and some of my life experiences as well. But I don't see this as intimacy - it is more being curious, open to experience, willing to listen and consider many sides, also being drawn to someone whose perception tends to be quite deep and complex. Intimacy, for me, is often initiated with this familiarity, but takes much much more to establish and maintain.

I think I experienced what I would describe as "true intimacy for me" before. Therapy, or a relationship with a therapist, hardly even scratched that experience.

I am not against prostitution, I think it serves realistic human needs and a purpose. It is more how it is being done. I never experienced therapy or Ts as emotional prostitution but have no issues seeing how that can be perceived. I did end up employing my Ts mostly as paid routines and conversation partners though. Would not go as deep as friends or intimates, but definitely paid interpersonal substitutes. I stopped therapy mostly because using those substitutes got in the way - my own momentary choices were superficial, in combination with what the therapy construct was (or wasn't) capable of, prevented me from the real deal of exploring life further. And I actually made those avoidance choices myself by paying a very superficial and limited substitute, instead of true exploring, interactions, and trials.

[BudFox]

I have long thought emotional prostitution is the best description or analogy. This need not have sexual connotations. The word prostitution has a more general meaning. To me the prostituting of emotions and caring is the defining aspect of talk therapy. Hardly seems controversial to say that.

Therapy is sold as transcendent and pure, or alternately as scientific and rigorous, but looking back at mine, it was actually quite trashy and common, and I felt degraded by it.

I'd actually go a bit further. For me in one case it was an emotional violation that brings to mind the "r" word... client reveals secrets, becomes increasingly exposed, therapist remains hidden and observes voyeuristically, therapist greedily gratifies needs, then drop kicks client when it becomes untenable and therapist needs are shut down. Coup de grace is victim blaming and denial of culpability.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by missbella

As I read discussions, I get the image of the Wizard of Oz characters on the yellow brick road--in search of a heart, a brain, courage and home. Different travelers seek different things from the Wizard and sometime idealize him accordingly.

Great metaphor. I know we all have what we seek inside ourselves, at least I knew it for myself long ago. I don't think I was looking at a therapist to give me what I was looking for. I knew I had all these things inside. I just didn't know how to access them and I thought that's what a therapist was supposed to help me with. I still think this is a therapist's job, which many of them don't do. They instead replace a client's own resources with a therapist's beliefs and guidance system. May be this is what others look for in therapy, but that wasn't my case.

Originally Posted by missbella

I was in search of more spontaneity (heart) and my sense of adult competence (mainly courage), but didn't understand until I was older.

Have we met? Because I was looking for the same things, but, I think, I did understand it from the beginning. Well..as I am thinking now..may be these things were not my desire from the beginning when I started seeing my first T. I think, I had some other desires at that time..those you mentioned came later..But I definitely knew what I wanted when I started therapy. To my first T's credit, he did ask me about my goals and I told them what they were. Also, to his credit, at some point in therapy I felt like I achieved them and I had new ones. See, that's why I can't definitively say that my entire therapy experience sucked. That's why the trauma of emotional violation was so horrendous..because I actually wanted it to continue to work for me and to produce results and hoped that it would.

Originally Posted by missbella

Therapists acted as if they understood me, and I ascribed that to them. But none of us knew what I sought. Now as I reflect, I'm unsure how even the wisest wizard could help me more complete myself.

I don't believe anyone can help us complete ourselves. That's the main spiritual concept that many spiritual schools of thought promote and they advise anyone who wants to grow to grasp it fully. Otherwise, we waste our lives always searching for the "right person", the "right relationship", the One who'd finally complete us and make us "happy". People have trouble understanding this concept though. That's why so many people are obsessed about relationships, and I am talking just any relationships, not only with therapists.

I, as a normal, not so enlightened person in the past, was obsessed about relationships as well. Before I got married, like any girl, I was trying to find "the One" and having friends was very important to me throughout my life, like, I believe, it's important to the majority of people. That said, I never thought about a "relationship" with a therapist in those terms. I never saw it, consciously or unconsciously, as something that would complete me. I didn't even think in the beginning that my interactions with a therapist are "relationship". I was thinking that I would visit some sort of a doctor who'd tell me how to "fix" my problems. As primitive and naive as it sounds, I feel that this view of a therapist and their role is much healthier than that of an "intimate" helper who has the need to engage in the "intimate relationship" with me in order to help me.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by Myrto

As for the comparison with prostitution, I'm not a huge fan of comparing therapy to what I consider sexual abuse (prostitution), especially because in the case of prostitution clients are the ones abusing prostitutes whereas in therapy it's the other way around.

This is such a good point! I never thought of that before. You're right, a therapist cannot be compared to a prostitute because s/he holds all the power and, in case of prostitution, it's the other way around. The prostitutes are victims of abuse. Definitely.