[Rive1976]

So I see this therapist that spealizes in trauma. I dont have any memories of trauma but have issues that people think are from trauma. I was referred to her my a mental health skill builder. She is a LCSW and owns her own practice. We had been working on EMDR for some things I do remember but they are only snippets. I contacted her yesterday and told her I wouldnt be doing EMDR now and maybe never because it has robbed me of my emotions. I literally feel nothing. I used to feel high anxiety around some sexual thoughts and impulses but that is much less. Well that may sound good but I would rather fee anxiety than be a blob. Anyway, when I talk about my problems now she often says well I think thats because you were sexually abused at a young age and just dont remember. I personally dont mind it because I am not trained and she is. On the other hand I do mind it because I cant know that for sure since I have no memory earlier than 7 or 8. I feel it is living a lie as I have done some bad things and I feel that saying it is because I was sexually abused could be a lie. What should I feel or do?

[growlycat]

My old t was very very cautious about making assumptions. You are being too hard on yourself though. You aren’t lying you just don’t know what happened. Your t doesn’t either and I would share your concern that she is making assumptions. Good intentions, but still not helpful.

[Salmon77]

Have you considered consulting with a different therapist? Even just as a second opinion.

I think it is irresponsible for your T to suggest that you were sexually abused. She may be trained but that doesn't mean she can't make a mistake.

[Rive1976]

Originally Posted by Salmon77

Have you considered consulting with a different therapist? Even just as a second opinion.

I think it is irresponsible for your T to suggest that you were sexually abused. She may be trained but that doesn't mean she can't make a mistake.

It was the opinion of my old therapist as well. So its not new to me. I saw my old T for 9 years. She never said who she thought it was like this one but she did make the assumption that someone made me touch them as a child. Both suggested I was and just dont remember.

[Rive1976]

Originally Posted by growlycat

My old t was very very cautious about making assumptions. You are being too hard on yourself though. You aren’t lying you just don’t know what happened. Your t doesn’t either and I would share your concern that she is making assumptions. Good intentions, but still not helpful.

But arent I lying to myself if I assume that my behaviors were because I was sexually abused but dont know? I mean sexual abuse does make sense to me and it was the opinion of both of my last Ts but I dont know. When I get into agruements about that with Ts saying they cant know. They just say sexual trauma.

[Argonautomobile]

Forgive me if this is too forward, but I'm reading between the lines here and it seems like the possibility of CSA in your past is all tied up with guilt and absolution. As though you could forgive yourself for your behavior if it were due to/caused by/has its origins in CSA, but you can't forgive yourself if there is no CSA in your past.

I'd like to suggest that the two can be separated - which might make it easier to live with the ambiguity of never knowing for sure what did or didn't happen.

I don't really know what the behavior is that upsets you, but that doesn't really matter. It's not for me to judge. I think, though, that it's possible to forgive yourself regardless of the origin - to accept it or make amends or just something that will make it easier to live with.

I also thing it's helpful to remember that CSA in the past and later behaviors don't exist in a 1 to 1 correspondence. The whole matter is pretty complicated. People who have been abused sometimes exhibit x behavior, sometimes they don't - and nobody really knows why. People without a history of abuse can also exhibit x behavior - and nobody really knows why.

Anyway, I hope you find some way to think through the whole thing and feel better.

[Rive1976]

Originally Posted by Argonautomobile

Forgive me if this is too forward, but I'm reading between the lines here and it seems like the possibility of CSA in your past is all tied up with guilt and absolution. As though you could forgive yourself for your behavior if it were due to/caused by/has its origins in CSA, but you can't forgive yourself if there is no CSA in your past.

I'd like to suggest that the two can be separated - which might make it easier to live with the ambiguity of never knowing for sure what did or didn't happen.

I don't really know what the behavior is that upsets you, but that doesn't really matter. It's not for me to judge. I think, though, that it's possible to forgive yourself regardless of the origin - to accept it or make amends or just something that will make it easier to live with.

I also thing it's helpful to remember that CSA in the past and later behaviors don't exist in a 1 to 1 correspondence. The whole matter is pretty complicated. People who have been abused sometimes exhibit x behavior, sometimes they don't - and nobody really knows why. People without a history of abuse can also exhibit x behavior - and nobody really knows why.

Anyway, I hope you find some way to think through the whole thing and feel better.

Yes, all this is why I am stuck. I dont know how to process that I may or may not have been sexually abused when my therapists answer for everything is you were likely abused.

[Argonautomobile]

Sounds like a tough situation, Dnester. Take care. ((Dnester))

[ArtleyWilkins]

At one point, part of my trauma history was really unclear to me -- the memory was unclear -- sort of like still images that I couldn't piece together.

What my therapist was very careful about was NEVER to suggest what was actually there. In fact, he was pretty explicit is saying that unless and until the history became clear, we weren't going to explore it and run the risk of creating a narrative that just wasn't reality.

Instead, we worked on what I was feeling. We worked on my self-concept. We worked on what I DID know for sure and left the rest alone.

As I worked on other issues, other history, there came the moment when things did become more clear (and were confirmed eventually by a witness). ONLY then, did we really look at those events. ONLY then did my therapist confirm that he had suspected as much from certain things that I had said, but he wasn't sure.

What he told me at that point (after the history was clear and confirmed) is that he had for a long time had this vision of me hanging onto the edge of a dark pit where the bottom couldn't be seen. He had a feeling that if I let go, it actually wasn't a long drop to the bottom, but it wasn't his job to pry my fingers off that edge . His job was simply to help be find a way to get out of the pit -- what was at the bottom wasn't really in the equation.

What bothers me about your therapist is that she seems to be trying to define what is at the bottom of that pit for you. It's possible there is nothing there -- that doesn't make it any less frightening or dangerous or debilitating. Your therapist could be helping you deal with your fears and finding ways to work with what you do know without you ever actually knowing all the details. It's precarious when they start filling in the blanks for you with their own stuff.

[Betty_Banana]

Originally Posted by ArtleyWilkins

At one point, part of my trauma history was really unclear to me -- the memory was unclear -- sort of like still images that I couldn't piece together.

What my therapist was very careful about was NEVER to suggest what was actually there. In fact, he was pretty explicit is saying that unless and until the history became clear, we weren't going to explore it and run the risk of creating a narrative that just wasn't reality.

Instead, we worked on what I was feeling. We worked on my self-concept. We worked on what I DID know for sure and left the rest alone.

As I worked on other issues, other history, there came the moment when things did become more clear (and were confirmed eventually by a witness). ONLY then, did we really look at those events. ONLY then did my therapist confirm that he had suspected as much from certain things that I had said, but he wasn't sure.

What he told me at that point (after the history was clear and confirmed) is that he had for a long time had this vision of me hanging onto the edge of a dark pit where the bottom couldn't be seen. He had a feeling that if I let go, it actually wasn't a long drop to the bottom, but it wasn't his job to pry my fingers off that edge . His job was simply to help be find a way to get out of the pit -- what was at the bottom wasn't really in the equation.

What bothers me about your therapist is that she seems to be trying to define what is at the bottom of that pit for you. It's possible there is nothing there -- that doesn't make it any less frightening or dangerous or debilitating. Your therapist could be helping you deal with your fears and finding ways to work with what you do know without you ever actually knowing all the details. It's precarious when they start filling in the blanks for you with their own stuff.

I think I would be finding a different therapist.

[Rive1976]

Originally Posted by ArtleyWilkins

At one point, part of my trauma history was really unclear to me -- the memory was unclear -- sort of like still images that I couldn't piece together.

What my therapist was very careful about was NEVER to suggest what was actually there. In fact, he was pretty explicit is saying that unless and until the history became clear, we weren't going to explore it and run the risk of creating a narrative that just wasn't reality.

Instead, we worked on what I was feeling. We worked on my self-concept. We worked on what I DID know for sure and left the rest alone.

As I worked on other issues, other history, there came the moment when things did become more clear (and were confirmed eventually by a witness). ONLY then, did we really look at those events. ONLY then did my therapist confirm that he had suspected as much from certain things that I had said, but he wasn't sure.

What he told me at that point (after the history was clear and confirmed) is that he had for a long time had this vision of me hanging onto the edge of a dark pit where the bottom couldn't be seen. He had a feeling that if I let go, it actually wasn't a long drop to the bottom, but it wasn't his job to pry my fingers off that edge . His job was simply to help be find a way to get out of the pit -- what was at the bottom wasn't really in the equation.

What bothers me about your therapist is that she seems to be trying to define what is at the bottom of that pit for you. It's possible there is nothing there -- that doesn't make it any less frightening or dangerous or debilitating. Your therapist could be helping you deal with your fears and finding ways to work with what you do know without you ever actually knowing all the details. It's precarious when they start filling in the blanks for you with their own stuff.

Well what if I have issues but no memory of how it began . All my childhood issues started at 8 before 8 is blank. So I cant work with what I do know because I know nothing.

[ArtleyWilkins]

You can work on what is happening now.

[Rive1976]

Originally Posted by ArtleyWilkins

You can work on what is happening now.

Not sure how its possible. If the fact that I am attracted to female survivors of sexual abuse because they are syrong but vulnerable how do I work on that without a cause? If I am majorly uncomfortable about sex topics etc but dont know the cause. How am I to work on it if i dont find the cause. I mesn I know yall are probably thinking if you work on it you might find it. I have worked with three different therapists in the past 15 years and no closer to finding anything out. Thats why I was placed with a trauma counselor.

[ArtleyWilkins]

Sometimes we never get a “why.” We don’t always get a reason. We don’t always know the cause. That’s true about a great many things in life.

So we have to work with what we DO know.

Why did I start hearing voices when I was young? I could spend my time trying to figure out what caused the problem, or I could work to deal with current recurrent issues related to that problem: how to calm them down; how to keep my mind from spiraling. I discovered I didn’t have to know the cause to work with the current problem.

Why did I dissociate so severely that I would find myself hundreds of miles from home and not know how I got there? What caused that problem? I didn’t know. But I could work on skills to remain more consciously present, reach out for assistance when I saw the warning signs that an episode was coming, work through the types of current triggers that seemed to set those episodes off. I discovered I didn’t have to know the cause to work on improving my current state.

Why did my depression become so severe that I wanted to die and actively tried to end my life? It clearly came from an old place, but I didn’t know what it was. I learned, again, techniques to recognize impending symptoms, communicate my fears, and utilize the supports around me. Even without really understanding why my recurrent and debilitating depression even existed, I did have the ability to work through the current depressive issues in order to stay safe.

Yes, eventually I got some of my answers (not all of them, but some), but everything I mentioned above, I started working on BEFORE I had my answers, and life was improving and I was healing even without that information. My therapists emphasized that I didn’t have to be at the mercy of the unknown; I couldn’t change whatever came before even if I knew it, so I might as well realize that I had much more control about my present than I gave myself credit for.

You have thoughts and behaviors that are upsetting and disruptive to you in your current life. You may never know why, but you can learn proactive techniques to control those thoughts, work around those thoughts, redirect your behaviors and temptations toward behaviors, etc. so that they don’t control your current life.

MANY of us don’t know our stories. It is one of the frustrating aspects of mental health issues. So much of the time we don’t know why or where or how the problems started. What was that initiating event? Was there an initiating event? Is this just the way we were born? But not having that definitive knowledge doesn’t doom us to being unable to gain stability and control in our present.

Somewhere along the line, what many of us do is realize we cannot change our past, we may not even know our past, we may not know the answers, but we can find ways to find some control over our present and not allow the unknowns to drive our present and our future.

[Rive1976]

Thanks AW, what would you suggest I do about forgiving myself for a past mistake if I dont know where it came from?

[ArtleyWilkins]

That's what you can work on in therapy. Sometimes we do things and don't understand why we made those mistakes. We just have to let ourselves off the hook and work to change/do better from here on. Not easy, but I'd guess most of us here at times have a hard time forgiving ourselves for a whole variety of things -- often things that no one else would continue to hold accountable for. We are our own worse critics.

[Rive1976]

Originally Posted by ArtleyWilkins

That's what you can work on in therapy. Sometimes we do things and don't understand why we made those mistakes. We just have to let ourselves off the hook and work to change/do better from here on. Not easy, but I'd guess most of us here at times have a hard time forgiving ourselves for a whole variety of things -- often things that no one else would continue to hold accountable for. We are our own worse critics.

Thanks AW. Thanks everyone

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Dnester

I have worked with three different therapists in the past 15 years and no closer to finding anything out. Thats why I was placed with a trauma counselor.

I do not mean this in a flippant way at all, but there is one thing you haven't tried in these 15 years, which is testing out the ideas of this T rather than coming up with quite a creative number of excuses and questions to stay stuck in this place. However you feel now is not always the way you're going to feel. Try moving forward one step at a time, you can always go back to your other place. She's leading you towards somewhere you haven't been before. Where you are sounds really hard, a tough way to live. Maybe a leap of faith to follow her will get you to a better place. You don't have to go all in, just the next step, to try.

[Rive1976]

Do mean EMDR it has robbed me of my emotions?

[Rive1976]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I do not mean this in a flippant way at all, but there is one thing you haven't tried in these 15 years, which is testing out the ideas of this T rather than coming up with quite a creative number of excuses and questions to stay stuck in this place. However you feel now is not always the way you're going to feel. Try moving forward one step at a time, you can always go back to your other place. She's leading you towards somewhere you haven't been before. Where you are sounds really hard, a tough way to live. Maybe a leap of faith to follow her will get you to a better place. You don't have to go all in, just the next step, to try.

I have my reservations about it being the right thing to do because I feel it frees me from some wrongs Ive done on a false basis because I dont and cant know for sure thats why. Also as desperate as I am I dont want false memories.