Have you tried to get your therapy notes?

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Old Therapist's response to my text.... we shall see.

That's great Sarah.

Thanks for the follow up! I was about to ask if anyone had tried asking.

My pdoc is not budging. He would rather I didn’t sue him for the notes and said people have tried and failed.

Anyone know a good hacker?

That would really make me want to know what was in them that I couldn't see...

I assume you are joking about hacking the system.

I’m like half joking. This is killing me inside but I can’t just sue him over this!

This is funny because I think like 3 sessions ago, my T was talking about how I’ve made progress even though it’s difficult for me to see it, and he randomly goes “maybe someday you and I can look over every note I’ve taken of you and you can see how far you’ve come.” I’d never mentioned wanting to see my notes. I don’t have a strong desire to see them but I also wouldn’t mind. I am kinda curious but tbh they are probably pretty boring in reality.

I assume he's an ex-T, but what about asking if you can come in and look at the notes, booking a session if that is what he's willing to do? The issue is sometimes more about you having a copy of the notes and the implications of that (i.e. ruminating on them, etc) for your supposed mental health as opposed to you looking at them.

I looked at my notes for about 10 minutes once in a session, it was a spontaneous thing and T just put me in front of his computer. In retrospect I know that they are not revealing at all of my identity (a para for each session) and that is comforting to know, they have no detail of my life. They were upsetting because I realized all the times I'd avoiding something, that it wasn't my T's forgetfulness, I wasn't pulling anything over on him by failing to mention something I was trying to bring into session and work on. If the question is whether the notes revealed "what he really thought about me", then they were thoroughly useless.

Therapist response. Still thinking about how I feel about it.

I personally don't like the policy that a T can decide subjectively what notes to show the client upon request. I see it a bit similarly to doctors not sharing with a patient their full diagnosis and perspectives. It gives room for covering up sloppiness and if the notes are usually very short and stick to the facts, I don't quite see why to hide them in the client's interest when they decide that they want to see.

Ex-t but still my pdoc.

He offered to pull up notes from a particular date and discuss it.

[Ugh. Just leave me alone and give me my notes so I don’t forget my seven year experience (which you are sullying btw doc, FYI)]

Thank you for starting this thread! Legal health records are an extremely important thing to consider when in therapy and or seeking help from any healthcare professional. They are LEGAL record and can and will be used against you in a court of law.

I have indeed got my records. They were altered and falsified in preparation for a potential lawsuit after I experienced medical malpractice and threatened a lawsuit. Lies were written in my charts that would creatively defend the criminals and destroy my credibility beyond repair. Fortunately, this issue is being exposed slowly but surely. Ultimately what needs to happen - is that legal health records should NO LONGER be considered legal records. They should merely be someone else's notes, no different than if you or I were to write sessions notes after a session. Aside from all the potential issues regarding memory of events and misconstrued information, there is also FAR too much power afforded to healthcare professionals because they know how these documents can be utilized in a court of law or complaint processes. Not to mention they can be altered and falsified in preparation for subpoenas and complaints - it is absolutely baffling that policy and legislation has not yet changed.

Look up, "Alteration of medical records," on google. Enjoy the rabbit hole. Inform yourself. And DO order your records. Just because your therapist seems trustworthy and ethical does not mean they are - there is absolutely nothing stopping them from being unethical aside from their promise to uphold their ethics. Unfortunately I was fooled by that.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

Thanks for sharing this Sarahsweets,

I would still recommend getting copies of everything regardless of what your therapist says. Knowing what I know can be done to health records - I see what your therapist said as a major red flag...

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

In Canada they are all required to keep notes of all sessions and even phone or email interactions. They could be subpoena'd by a court at any time, or required by health care. Practitioners here can lose their license for note keeping proper notes.

It varies province to province, as well as depending on an individual’s qualifications. It also depends if you are in the public system or if you are paying someone privately. I see someone currently who is licensed as a social worker and while she keeps notes they are very brief. She probably does note phone calls/emails but if they are anything like her session notes they don’t say much. We talked about it once because I don’t trust people and didn’t really like the idea of a big file full of personal details hanging out there. She read me some and showed me that while they are there, and she could bring them to court or something if needed, she also likes to use a system that keeps things more confidential.

I saw my last T for 10 years. I had three thick files. She said if another T asked for them, she would give a summary. (I never asked what would happen if I asked for them). I know she kept copies of my emails on a flash drive. She said there was too many to print out. She didn't really seem to know what would happen to my file if the practice closed which was a possibility within a year of me stopping seeing her. So I really don't know if there is even a way for me to get my file. HUGS Kit

My t did not take notes for a couple years. Lately she does. That makes me nervous. Why? I asked her and the answer was too hazy.
I guess I could tell her it makes me lose trust in her and would she please stop. What’s going on, does she think I’m going to be involved in some sort of legal action and she might be asked to testify? I think my life is too boring for that.

They are masters of the hazy response. I think it is a part of how they are trained - never tell the client what is really going on.

They don't legally have to give her a copy of everything if they deem it could be harmful to her. She could sue them to try to get the records, but that seems like a waste of time and money.

If they refuse to provide notes, though I am not certain, I think you can request they be sent to your designated representative, who can be someone you name as an advocate or support person.

My T doesnt take notes but wow, who do these people think they are. It's your therapy, your money, for your benefit, not their comfort.

Hi Susannahsays,

Thanks for adding this! You are correct about this, at least it applies where I live. However, there are ways to get these notes even if they are considered potentially harmful to a client. I know Physicians can and do write notes about clients that they cannot see unless there are legal proceedings and lawyers are involved. I believe a FOIP request can also bypass this - though I am not 100% sure about how easily it can be done.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

Not trying to be insensitive, but it seems like there are a ton of people with certain issues who would be likely to become suicidal if they read some of the things in therapy notes. Yeah, most aren't "juicy," but they aren't really written for the client's benefit in the first place. They are written for insurance, and the callousness of that industry is sometimes reflected in the note. I don't really think therapy notes have anything to do with client benefit OR therapist comfort.

And it actually comes full circle back to insurance again, although liability insurance this time, because that's why they don't have to release them to clients. It's too big of a liability to reasonably insure therapists when they might have to do this.

That's my thinking, anyway.

I absolutely agree with the bold as well. This is certainly a concern for a lot of therapists! I tried killing myself when I saw a specific document - however, the content that was written was malicious and purely lies. I don't think every therapist would write lies about clients but if they do, I can definitely see how it could push clients into suicidal territory.

Being that legal health records are my core trauma in therapy - I have had lots of time to research this stuff. Many healthcare professionals are scared to show notes to clients because there is a method to writing notes in a professional manner, considering they are legal records and must maintain professionalism and unbiased material. They have a writing style that can come across as blunt and hurtful and can be extremely difficult to interpret when read by yourself; that is why therapists offer to sit down and read them together just in case there is misinterpretation and or misconstrued understanding.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

The whole treatment is for the benefit of the client.

If the notes can be shared with insurance, used for court, or shared with anyone for other purposes, you have a right to know what a therapist is writing about you.

Especially notes your insurance company may get-that can cause problems the rest of your life, so those are notes you may want to see to ensure accuracy or to be informed in general. Do you think the insurance company actually protects the confidentially of such notes as you would? Think again. No, the only one protecting you is you.

Personal notes that would never be shared outside of the T are not my concern. A decent T would not send such notes to an insurance company anyway (they would have a seperate set) or anyone else as they know the potential implications. But some Ts are not as smart as others and may do something that stupid.

Yes, I know of what I speak because I worked in a mental health agency and frequently had to deal with notes. I know that the way those notes are written isn't all compassionate and **** like the side of therapists that is presented in session. So somebody's therapist might be all ooey gooey and stuff in session, but then their notes would make it seem like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde if you weren't familiar with documentation protocol. Not saying that the ooey gooey facade is the real person, just that it's not as psychopathic as the extremes make it look.